My Forehand technique - critique

This user has no status.
This user has no status.
Member
Apr 2012
422
123
794
Hi guys,

Just a short clip of my FH. What's right and what's screwed up? The thing I would most like to improve is my timing so that I can hit with little less effort. Also because I am not naturally heavy I feel I need better timing to hit winners/loop-kills. Right now, I rely on consistency to win points and hope that my opponent commits an error. Need your ideas and suggestions to improve my timing..


Unfortunately, this is not how I hit during a match. :) Please feel free to add your own FH video too as I feel I learn more from players who are 1 or 2 levels above me than from international players.

Another question is how long does it take to transition one aspect from practice to matchplay in your experience?

Happy looping! :)
 
This user has no status.
This user has no status.
Well-Known Member
Oct 2014
12,274
17,738
44,282
Read 17 reviews
Your loop is fine. Don't chase your tail. The only thing I would change is that you hit the ball where most people say you should hit it while I would try to hit the ball closer to the end of the backswing. You are also hitting the loop in autopilot when you should be trying to wait for the ball to enter the hitting zone before striking it. That way your loop is adapted to the ball and you won't be as susceptible to timing errors when the blocker does something different. The way you are doing it now feels better in practice but it only works when the ball is predictable and consistent. Once you meet a good blocker or someone who changes the timing, autopilot breaks down. So you need to be able to wait for the ball to enter the hitting zone.
 
This user has no status.
Looks good but it is not too meaningful how good you can loop no-spin balls during warm-up. As you have mentioned this is not the way you loop during a match. You could film a short exercise instead. Serve, long backspin push either in forehand or middle of the table, loop.
 
This user has no status.
This user has no status.
Well-Known Member
Oct 2014
12,274
17,738
44,282
Read 17 reviews
Looks good but it is not too meaningful how good you can loop no-spin balls during warm-up. As you have mentioned this is not the way you loop during a match. You could film a short exercise instead. Serve, long backspin push either in forehand or middle of the table, loop.

Not necessarily true - some people have real technical errors in warmup loop that you need to isolate.
 
  • Like
Reactions: OldschoolPenholder
This user has no status.
This user has no status.
Well-Known Member
Oct 2014
12,274
17,738
44,282
Read 17 reviews
Here is some old video of my technique, issues and all. The blocker has short pips. I have all kinds of physical issues so don't copy my form, but you can see that I loop with different timings in order to improve my ability to adapt. IT's about 11 mins long - I move back so I can take the ball lower and off the table as variation as well. IT's all to get more reps in and to be relaxed so that I don't feel under pressure when looping. I actually like your match loop which is why I am confused that you think you should be hitting the ball harder - you should be placing it better *sometimes* that is all. Everything comes in stages - don't try to improve everything about your loop at once.

 
This user has no status.
This user has no status.
Member
Apr 2012
422
123
794
@NextLevel, I am working on my FH to take the ball a little early and slightly in front of the body. Not by the side. Another thing is to widen the stance and get lower which makes it easier to push the momentum forward. I usually brush the ball upward and my bat finishes above my head instead of in front of my eyes. Also I want to be more stable when I hit. I like how effortlessly you are brushing the ball. When I hit it feels like I am almost trying too hard. It doesn't look neat/smooth like a player.

Since my consistency level is decent when taking the ball late, I usually don't miss loops against backspin variations like short or long pips. What I lack is explosiveness to finish the point when the ball comes where I expect it to. That is why I want to hit harder. Otherwise I need to develop some deception or variation in my FH loop. Otherwise I get blocked out.

@bolterixus, I know it sounds like solid contact. But there is a good amount of spin. No need to hit a brush loop as the feed is not backspin.
@xylit, you are right mate. I posted a match video and a multiball video (with semirandom drills) recently.
 
This user has no status.
This user has no status.
Well-Known Member
Oct 2014
12,274
17,738
44,282
Read 17 reviews
@NextLevel, I am working on my FH to take the ball a little early and slightly in front of the body. Not by the side. Another thing is to widen the stance and get lower which makes it easier to push the momentum forward. I usually brush the ball upward and my bat finishes above my head instead of in front of my eyes. Also I want to be more stable when I hit. I like how effortlessly you are brushing the ball. When I hit it feels like I am almost trying too hard. It doesn't look neat/smooth like a player.

Since my consistency level is decent when taking the ball late, I usually don't miss loops against backspin variations like short or long pips. What I lack is explosiveness to finish the point when the ball comes where I expect it to. That is why I want to hit harder. Otherwise I need to develop some deception or variation in my FH loop. Otherwise I get blocked out.

@bolterixus, I know it sounds like solid contact. But there is a good amount of spin. No need to hit a brush loop as the feed is not backspin.
@xylit, you are right mate. I posted a match video and a multiball video (with semirandom drills) recently.

Many people do that and I think it is a mistake. The most important thing for your loop power is to hit the ball while your body is rotating. The further out in front you hit the ball, the less likely the body will be rotating when you hit the ball. This puts pressure on your upper body rotation and how low your stance is as to hit the ball further out, you have to rotate longer and into the ball. If you can perfect everything, then go ahead. I think many people would do better to take the ball closer to their bodies and take advantage of the rotational power unless their stance and timing is perfect.

On a thread on mytt, someone is criticizing Xu Xin (well, kinda criticizing - no one criticizes someone that good) for taking the ball behind his body on a loop. But it is simply a misunderstanding of the requirements of the shot to get power. You can take the ball in-front of you early close to the table when you are confident you are borrowing the incoming power. But if you want to generate your own power, you want to make sure your body is rotating while you hit the ball. If you aren't rotating your core sufficiently on both the backswing and forward swing, just make sure your use of your rotation allows you to do what you are trying to do.

IF you want to finish an easier ball, move your sweet spot closer to the ball. Usually, you do this by rotating your body in a way that gets it closer to the ball, often by pivoting or just moving in. But if you think that taking the ball earlier just by swinging harder will improve your loop, you will be in for a shock.
 
This user has no status.
This user has no status.
Member
Apr 2012
422
123
794
No.. I am not saying taking the ball late or by the side of the body is wrong. There is a time and place for every different timing and type of stroke. As a topspin oriented player I feel I should be equally comfortable with different timings.

Totally agree with what you say regarding co-ordination of the FH. In my view timing takes consists of weight transfer, acceleration of the hand and contacting the ball exactly when the weight transfer happens. So, taking the ball in front doesn't mean leaning out forward or compromising on other parts of co-ordination. I would not be happy with that. Taking the ball early is definitely a close to the table stroke. When you are two metres or so behind you have to take the ball near the body so you can transfer even more power into it and you also have the time to do so. I think different stroke is necessary based on one's position.

I agree with your last point as well to take the sweet spot closer to the ball to hit finishes.
 
says what [IMG]
If you want to get the ball past people to end points, why don't you just start incorporating sidespin shots into your game? I think you have enough power to get the ball past people who are your level or below. It's not like your shots are slow.

Why not learn to adapt your forehand better and do more varied shots with it, with good consistency? I think that sidespin is a good way to start. For example, learn to serve left-right sidespin and cause returns into your backhand, then hit your 3rd ball with some inside-out crosscourt. Or maybe even hook it down the line, making it go off the side of the table.

I'm not sure if this is any good and people near our level are more suited to just doing normal mostly topspin shots and increasing their quality, but I've found it to be beneficial. To learn to manipulate the ball's spin direction more and use it to my advantage.

Think about it like this, if you can inside-out, hook or straight topspin your strong attack, and it looks very similar just until you're about to contact the ball, won't you have a higher chance of getting the ball past people? If you just hit it in the same spot all the time with more power, they will adapt eventually and just powerblock it easily, right?

I think something like this is what NL was talking about when he told you to learn to return wide forehand balls down the line.
 
  • Like
Reactions: strangeloop
This user has no status.
This user has no status.
Well-Known Member
Oct 2014
12,274
17,738
44,282
Read 17 reviews
No.. I am not saying taking the ball late or by the side of the body is wrong. There is a time and place for every different timing and type of stroke. As a topspin oriented player I feel I should be equally comfortable with different timings.

Totally agree with what you say regarding co-ordination of the FH. In my view timing takes consists of weight transfer, acceleration of the hand and contacting the ball exactly when the weight transfer happens. So, taking the ball in front doesn't mean leaning out forward or compromising on other parts of co-ordination. I would not be happy with that. Taking the ball early is definitely a close to the table stroke. When you are two metres or so behind you have to take the ball near the body so you can transfer even more power into it and you also have the time to do so. I think different stroke is necessary based on one's position.

I agree with your last point as well to take the sweet spot closer to the ball to hit finishes.

OKay. You seem to like the Fang Bo video. Notice that he is hitting the ball closer to his body than you are. The other thing is that he has a much lower stance that allows him to rotate even more into the ball. The kind of position where you are hitting the ball is suited for hitters doing fast multiball but not for loopers who want to put some power into the ball.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: OldschoolPenholder
This user has no status.
This user has no status.
Member
Apr 2012
422
123
794
OKay. You seem to like the Fang Bo video. Notice that he is hitting the ball closer to his body than you are. The other thing is that he has a much lower stance that allows him to rotate even more into the ball. The kind of position where you are hitting the ball is suited for hitters doing fast multiball but not for loopers who want to put some power into the ball.

Exactly what I was thinking! I have to get lower. It will also not allow me to stretch my arm in front. Stability will also be better. Voila! I've discovered the near-term target for my FH :)
 
says Spin and more spin.
says Spin and more spin.
Well-Known Member
Super Moderator
Dec 2010
16,146
17,685
54,747
Read 11 reviews
Unfortunately, this is not how I hit during a match.

Another question is how long does it take to transition one aspect from practice to matchplay in your experience?

So, there have been a lot of good comments. Your form on your FH is fine. There are always things to work on. But the technique itself is fine.

For bridging the gap between practice and game play you may need to work on those random scenarios like in the multiball videos you have posted. But you also could use practice with mid-distance looping vs loop with both players hitting to somewhat random placement. That way, in a match, if someone loops to you, you will be more likely to be comfortable looping back.

Also, 3rd ball attack drills would be worth it. Something like this with a training partner:

1) Player 1 serves backspin
2) Player 2 pushes
3) Player 1 has to attack the push
4) Open play

It is worth working on both sides of this drill. As player 1 you get to practice your backspin serves and your 3rd ball opening. As player two you get to practice your heavy push and your counter vs an opening loop.

The player 2 role is much more valuable than most people realize. As a result of that side of this drill, I can counterloop against players much higher level than me and still be dangerous. And that skill of counterlooping the opening loop helps you learn how to time your acceleration so you make a safe effective shot and use your opponent's spin for your power. If you time those right, with a small stroke and good acceleration you can use 40-50% power and get a shot that comes off your racket like a rocket.

Also, with this drill, when the play goes past the 1st 3 balls, you get practice with the exact kind of rally that happens in real match play.

There are other ways of adding the random element to bridge the gap between practice and match play. And your coach is already adding some of that. Working on random is frustrating because it feels like you are not improving and then all of a sudden you see the training appear in the match.

There is this drill I do with one of my training partners where we are counter-driving and gentle looping at about 40% power and it is totally random and we are we are working on the chess element of moving the other person out of position to get them to mess up as a result of placement. And that is the only way to mess up in this drill because all of the shots are moderate speed and none of the shots are power shots.

There is another guy I train with and most of what we do is launching bombs from mid-distance. With this we start cross court and after a few good loops from each side, we start moving each other around. This is really good practice for counterlooping.



Sent from the Subterranean Workshop by Telepathy
 
says Spin and more spin.
says Spin and more spin.
Well-Known Member
Super Moderator
Dec 2010
16,146
17,685
54,747
Read 11 reviews
I'm not sure if this is any good and people near our level....

Wait....did I miss something? "Our level?"

Archo, I proud you've come so far. I would love to see the video of you looping vs a standard block. It would be great to see.



Sent from the Subterranean Workshop by Telepathy
 
says what [IMG]
Wait....did I miss something? "Our level?"

Archo, I proud you've come so far. I would love to see the video of you looping vs a standard block. It would be great to see.



Sent from the Subterranean Workshop by Telepathy
Our level being generally pretty much everyone under the high 1000's and low 2000's. OP is probably a level or two higher than I am in everything except serves.

Oh yeah, I forgot to ask:

@UpSideDownCarl

What do you think about my thoughts on learning to vary spin? Is it over my head or over OP's head, or is it good to start learning them sooner than later?

I feel I can get much better spin on a slightly hooking shot than a more pure topspin shot, and I think my sidespin shots have the most spin on them because it just feels easier to brush and not hit. I still need to learn better contact on a more straight shot, but I think I'm doing the whole "pulling past the ball" thing pretty well on shots with a lot of sidespin.

Left to right sidespin serve then hooking forehand or right to left sidespin serve then fading forehand has become an integral part of my game: it's how I reliably score points. And I know I'm nowhere near an intermediate player. However I only see things like this done often at quite a high amateur level, so why is that?

Is there something flawed in my thinking: maybe I'm just overestimating myself?
 
Last edited:
says Spin and more spin.
says Spin and more spin.
Well-Known Member
Super Moderator
Dec 2010
16,146
17,685
54,747
Read 11 reviews
Our level being generally pretty much everyone under the high 1000's and low 2000's. OP is probably a level or two higher than I am in everything except serves.

Oh yeah, I forgot to ask:

@UpSideDownCarl....

Based on the video footage I've seen of strangeloop vs the video footage I've seen from the Archosaurus, strangeloop is at least 4-5 levels above the Jurassic Reptile and could be 7-10 levels higher.

As far as the other questions you are asking about: let's see the video footage! Footage that even shows you can even loop two in a row would be heart warming. And it sure would be a start.

But if you can get footage of everything you just described, man, that would be cool footage. I, for one, am looking forward to seeing it.




Sent from the Subterranean Workshop by Telepathy
 
Top