Question on Biomechanics of the FH Loop

says what [IMG]
I wouldn't call it power. More like momentum and racket speed of the bat. It's not like muscle power and hulk smashing stuff.

I notice this a lot with my H3N. Its hard to play slow controlled balls. However if I load and smash its it through ( ofc with the right bat angle) i get tons of spin and speed. Those hits need the most courage. However if you do it they feel much more safe and controlled.
However I always need too much time to get the feeling for the right stroke. So i can't use it in most matches.

EDIT: If I remember the feeling of those shots. I think i could play them against different spins with almost the same motion. Well not like heavy backspin and heavy top... more like no spin or a bit top or a bit back wouldn't matter. Which goes more into what Schlager says.
Power just means more energy in the swing ie: more racket head speed. Not muscle tensing.

I've noticed that my best spin comes from basically a smash with the right racket angle and some tangential action. Not really brushing finely, but not really driving either.

I try to brush as much as I can, and avoid this kind of hitting. Am I doing it wrong?
 
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I've noticed that my best spin comes from basically a smash with the right racket angle and some tangential action. Not really brushing finely, but not really driving either.


I think that's the holy grail of a FH loop. If the planets align, you are well in position to do your loop and your goal is to put the ball back with the most quality you can (max spin, max speed, low to the net) getting that correct percentage of brush and forward motion is essential. I've seen some clips of the pros go too spinny, and those get clobbered back as well as too forward which obviously go off. I think that's why it feels so rewarding to get a nice FH winner...because so many things have to happen correctly in such a short amount of time.
 
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I think that's the holy grail of a FH loop. If the planets align, you are well in position to do your loop and your goal is to put the ball back with the most quality you can (max spin, max speed, low to the net) getting that correct percentage of brush and forward motion is essential. I've seen some clips of the pros go too spinny, and those get clobbered back as well as too forward which obviously go off. I think that's why it feels so rewarding to get a nice FH winner...because so many things have to happen correctly in such a short amount of time.

Since every stroke must also be adapted to the incoming ball, this is mostly a feeling and not a reality.
 
says what [IMG]
Since every stroke must also be adapted to the incoming ball, this is mostly a feeling and not a reality.
This is what I've figured, too. Very often a brush shot appears to be better.

However, on some balls, like no-spin balls, I feel that a harder, flatter contact is actually better.
 
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It's too difficult to talk ideal shots for incoming balls because there's too many subjective opinions. I've been told to always put spin on no spin balls by a coach. You've got articles online saying that it's best to flick no spin https://www.pingskills.com/table-tennis-forum/how-to-return-a-no-spin-serve/
The truth is you can also flat hit them - like you say Archosaurus. There's no rules.
Within that adaptation to the incoming ball there are multiple options with the FH that will return the ball successfully. If we are talking a FH loop attack shot, the maximum quality that I'm concerned with is spin, speed, being low to the net and placed well. When that happens (rare) it's quite rewarding.
 
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It's too difficult to talk ideal shots for incoming balls because there's too many subjective opinions. I've been told to always put spin on no spin balls by a coach. You've got articles online saying that it's best to flick no spin https://www.pingskills.com/table-tennis-forum/how-to-return-a-no-spin-serve/
The truth is you can also flat hit them - like you say Archosaurus. There's no rules.
Within that adaptation to the incoming ball there are multiple options with the FH that will return the ball successfully. If we are talking a FH loop attack shot, the maximum quality that I'm concerned with is spin, speed, being low to the net and placed well. When that happens (rare) it's quite rewarding.

You can flat hit anything - the problem is two fold - you have to read the spin correctly and most of the time, the ball has to be above net height for significant accuracy. I play a kid who likes to drive everything. The problem of course is when the ball is below net height, his accuracy drops significantly. Its when you leave that out that flat hitting is an option.
 
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I've noticed that my best spin comes from basically a smash with the right racket angle and some tangential action. Not really brushing finely, but not really driving either.

Actually, this is how I started spinning the ball forward, and thus loop driving.

I got really tired of looping so many balls out, and I just wanted to start smashing them. Then, I realized that I could put some spin on them, and I started to call them spin-smashes. Shoutout to Roy Li, if you are here, who was present when I created this term.

FOR ME and my chinese rubber:

The smash part gives my shot a low trajectory and lots of forward momentum.
The spin part pushes the ball down and keeps it on the table.
 
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great thread and time. I have been thinking about this very topic the last few weeks, very cool. I think I'm at the lel that I do think of two different swings. My natural stroke is a topspin drive previously (and I can fall into that if I'm not mindful ), I always had some wood contact but the ball was still plenty spiny. As I continue to develop the past 6 months I have worked on more of a true brush loop wanting a bigger windows and because this stroke fits my developing strategy better. I shortened my swing some and tried to focus on being quick through the swing while do so, and it's been going good. Another reason why I wanted to do more of a true brush loop is because it felt like a smaller adjustment when looping back spin. So this talk about the swing being the same (not the same for me but closer) for both strokes makes a lot of sense. I really appreciate this thread and the links to help me flesh this out some.
Also the discussion on contact point is also interesting. Contact point seems to be (for me right now anyway) the key aspect to continually come back to and focus on. For me it feels like one of the biggest determining factors on success when executing nearly any type of shot and it's the first thing I examine when I missed the shot.


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