Oiling tacky topsheet

James Livesey · Oct 5, 2016

Firstly, this is not about boosting/expanding the sponge. this is only about the top sheet.

So I'm pretty interested in the idea of restoring the tackiness of my dhs tacky rubber, as I find myself changing rubber after 2-3 months. I have no problem with the sponge, so am interested in using oil to restore the tackiness. This will also make the grip more consistent as I further develop my serves and forehand. According the ITTF rules, you can't treat your topsheet with anything other than water. As far as I'm concerned as a local league player, I don't have a problem if I'm not giving myself an unfair advantage which I would consider cheating. I'm only looking to maintain tackiness, something I could legally do if I wanted to keep replacing my rubber. I've also read that pros are using haifu oil? what's the general consensus about oil?

1. Do you think it's integrous?
2. Are pros doing it?
3. How are pros getting away with it?
4. What kind of oil do you recommend for chinese tacky rubbers?
5. How much oil should be used and with what procedure/tools

UpSideDownCarl · Oct 5, 2016

Haifu oil is a booster that has VOCs in it. It is awesome for expanding the sponge but not something you would want or need for your goals.

For what you are trying to do, it is pretty simple. You don't need anything special. Baby oils or mineral oil. Buy a quarter sized dot on the topsheet spread it over the whole topsheet. Wait for it to sink in. Put a plastic sheet over the topsheet and leave it there for a few days and the tackiness will be improved some. If you leave it like that for three months, the tackiness will be BIG TIME improved.

From a theoretical standpoint you could have to FH sheets of H3 that you rotate. You use one for three months while you are giving the other the monster tackiness treatment. And then you swap which one you are using and which one gets the tackiness treatment.

Could also swap once every two months.

Even if you just leave a tacky rubber sitting for a few months with a plastic sheet on it without using the oil it will get tackier by sitting around. But that won't happen without the plastic sheet stuck to it.

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UpSideDownCarl · Oct 5, 2016

Oh. Most pros boost or get rubbers that have been boosted for them by the rubber company. Because the second one is legal and the first one, adding your own booster is against the rules.

So that is how a lot of pros get around the ban on boosters.

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UpSideDownCarl · Oct 5, 2016

Haifu oil, is supposedly the best booster but it is full of VOCs. Haifu Seamoon booster is the second best and it is "mostly" free of VOCs. DianChi booster is the third best and it is also "mostly" VOC free.

Then there are things like Falco which is nowhere near as good but costs 1/5th the price and is still really, basically good enough.

Now those are boosters for boosting the sponge.

If all you are interested in is restoring the tackiness to the topsheet, then you don't need any of that stuff. All you need is baby oil.

And the pros do not bother trying to restore a worn topsheet. They just glue a new sheet on and give the used one to the kids.

The pros usually use a rubber for about 1-2 weeks depending on if they are training or playing a match. So they wouldn't bother restoring a topsheet.

For a tensor rubber from ESN or a Japanese rubber like Tenergy, WD40 works better for restoring the topsheet than baby oil.

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James Livesey · Oct 5, 2016

Ooooo this all makes so much sense. Thank you very much. I think I will get two rubbers next time then. Tbh, I might want to move to hurricane iii at some point, and then provincial. Either way, I'm not playing this weekend so will see what 3 days does. And yes I understand haifu is booster now. Seems confusing they call it oil...

Nuke Skywalker · Oct 5, 2016

Wow, very comprehensive Carl!

ajtatosmano2 · Oct 5, 2016

UpSideDownCarl said:
Haifu oil, is supposedly the best booster but it is full of VOCs. Haifu Seamoon booster is the second best and it is "mostly" free of VOCs. DianChi booster is the third best and it is also "mostly" VOC free.

Then there are things like Falco which is nowhere near as good but costs 1/5th the price and is still really, basically good enough.

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Have you tried Revolution booster?

Boogar · Oct 5, 2016

Thank you for the infos carl! Very nice to know. So falco long isnt really good? And how long does the haifu stuff appeal?

UpSideDownCarl · Oct 6, 2016

James Livesey said:
Seems confusing they call it oil...

The thing is, it is oil. Paraffin is also oil and I am willing to bet that there is paraffin in Haifu Oil.

Gasoline would also boost your rubbers. But the VOCs in gasoline or Haifu Oil are not so great to inhale if you like your brain cells.

ajtatosmano2 said:
Have you tried Revolution booster?

I have not actually boosted in years.

Boogar said:
Thank you for the infos carl! Very nice to know. So falco long isnt really good? And how long does the haifu stuff appeal?

I don't actually know how long the boost effect on Haifu Oil lasts. I think that is what you are asking. And I think Falco must be okay. But the Haifu Oil, is old style boost with VOCs and that is just a more powerful boost effect. And the Chinese companies really tried to make top quality boost because the CNT actually uses it. So there may have been more money in that research.

As far as all of this information I have presented. I have to be honest. It is all second hand info. I have not boosted for years. Not since I stopped using H3. Which I think, is at least 4 years ago now.

But I have a friend who is a kid, 17 years old. And he is a giant EJ and he is between 2300-2400 and he boosts. And he is a bit spoiled and wants the best. And can afford it.

I have felt his racket when he has just boosted and it is pretty crazy. Anyway, I have picked his brain about this stuff. And one thing I know, he is a bit outrageous and says things in extremes. Like he might say: "Falco sucks." But that is because, he feels only the best is good enough.

And I have found that this kid, when he says one thing is better than another, and there is an objective thing, like not just a personal preference, he is usually correct when it comes to equipment. So I trust him and I what I presented earlier I got from picking his brain.

I hope that makes sense. I don't want to present it as though I am an authority on boosting or anything. I just couldn't deal with boosting H3 anymore when I stopped using it.

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Xylit · Oct 6, 2016

You mean, apply baby oil ONCE and leave the racket for three months in a plastic bag untouched? If yes, does that mean that putting your racket into a plastic bag after every training / match will help to conserve the rubbers' tackiness longer in general?

UpSideDownCarl · Oct 6, 2016

Xylit said:
You mean, apply baby oil ONCE and leave the racket for three months in a plastic bag untouched? If yes, does that mean that putting your racket into a plastic bag after every training / match will help to conserve the rubbers' tackiness longer in general?

I am not sure a plastic bag would help. It may. I meant a sheet of plastic. Like this:

A plastic bag may work. But it may actually dissolve into the tacky topsheet if you left it too long.

I pulled out one of my old blades that has H3 on it and it has been sitting on a shelf with one of those plastic sheets over it for probably 4 years. The topsheet was dead when I stopped using it. I used to wear dead spots into the tackiness because of my contact. There would be a spot where I make contact with my FH that was like Antispin on any H3 after a few weeks. I've never seen anyone else do that.

Anyway, when I pulled off the plastic sheet, it was as if it had been glued on. It was hard to pull off. And that was the tackiest H3 I've ever felt when I hit with it. Kind of amazing. But if it was a plastic bag, it would have been absorbed into the tack.

But, of course that was sitting on a shelf for 4 years. I still wouldn't use a bag with the oil though.

The sheets will protect them without the oil. But they won't make them keep tackiness if they start to wear out. Not unless you leave it for a long time. But if you use oil and the plastic sheet it will have some affect after one day. More after 3. More after a week. More after a month, etc.

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Suga D · Oct 6, 2016

UpSideDownCarl said:
Haifu oil, is supposedly the best booster but it is full of VOCs. Haifu Seamoon booster is the second best and it is "mostly" free of VOCs. DianChi booster is the third best and it is also "mostly" VOC free.

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Hey Carl, sorry for correction, but I think this is not 100% accurate.
Maybe this was correct with the old Haifu Oil, but i know from a quite well informed source that the "new" Haifu Oil with the 2014 printing on it that it doesn't contain any VOCs.

Here:

Please note: Glue and oil booster can be send by China post air mail,can't send by EMS or DHL. One package can only send one bottle of oil, so if buy two bottles of oil, we have to send in two packs.

As a non-commercial version, the product is a previous version of Haifu previous version Oil currently used by Chinese National Athletes. It can be expanded well and absorbed fully into the sponge by applying it. The oil enables players loop the ball stronger with a powerful spin and the hand feeling is better. Most of all, VOC FREE.
The black one has better performance which exerts a much stronger friction power on the ball, while it takes a longer time to air dry the rubber. The yellow one has better hand feeling.

The aim of this product is to expand the sponge. Generally it shall be used together with inorganic glue.

Usage:

Step 1: evently glue on preglued sponge and racket.

Step 2: naturally dried need about 12-24 hours according to environment or dried by hot wind after two hours.

Step 3: adhibit

Specialty: high elasticity, fast speed,effect last for 7 days.

Applicability: hard and soft sponge

This is the source:

http://www.prott.cc/Product-Details.aspx?productcode=HFNatOil

Cheers
[Emoji12]

ajtatosmano2 said:
Have you tried Revolution booster?

Well afaik the Revolution 3 is a glue on latex base and is NOT a booster. All it does is add a little more thickness to the sponge, so it gets a little more spinny and bouncy, but it's definitely not a booster in the meaning of Haifu or Falco.

UpSideDownCarl · Oct 6, 2016

Suga D said:
Hey Carl, sorry for correction, but I think this is not 100% accurate.
Maybe this was correct with the old Haifu Oil, but i know from a quite well informed source that the "new" Haifu Oil with the 2014 printing on it that it doesn't contain any VOCs.

Here:

This is the source:

http://www.prott.cc/Product-Details.aspx?productcode=HFNatOil

Thanks. That could be the stuff. Last time I looked it was $150.00. I wonder. Maybe it is VOC free. Or maybe this is another version. I guess I would have to do the research. But this does look like what I was talking about.

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Suga D · Oct 6, 2016

I've had the chance to try it....
And all I can say:
It's da shizzle.
The real deal holyfield.
This sheezy is off da heezy.
[Emoji2]

Boogar · Oct 6, 2016

Im in the process of reboosting my H3N. Now it seems that the layer of glue is preventing the booster from sinking in. At first the rubber was strongly curved on the sponge side. Meaning the sponge got smaller. Now its still curved the same way just a little less. Should i try to peel of the rubber and booster layer? Would be very annoying tho.
I will reglue it now and see how it works out.
Ah and conerning throw angle of H3N boosted and unboosted... i think the boosted rubber has a lower throw angle. And if the angle gets higher the booster is wearing off. What are your experiences with that?

tikitiki · Oct 6, 2016

UpSideDownCarl said:
Haifu oil, is supposedly the best booster but it is full of VOCs. Haifu Seamoon booster is the second best and it is "mostly" free of VOCs. DianChi booster is the third best and it is also "mostly" VOC free.

Then there are things like Falco which is nowhere near as good but costs 1/5th the price and is still really, basically good enough.

Now those are boosters for boosting the sponge.

If all you are interested in is restoring the tackiness to the topsheet, then you don't need any of that stuff. All you need is baby oil.

And the pros do not bother trying to restore a worn topsheet. They just glue a new sheet on and give the used one to the kids.

The pros usually use a rubber for about 1-2 weeks depending on if they are training or playing a match. So they wouldn't bother restoring a topsheet.

For a tensor rubber from ESN or a Japanese rubber like Tenergy, WD40 works better for restoring the topsheet than baby oil.

Sent from the Subterranean Workshop by Telepathy

I think haifu is supposed to be good for chinese rubbers with hard sponge.
falco is supposedly better for euro rubbers.
price is the same for both.

UpSideDownCarl · Oct 6, 2016

Suga D said:
I've tried it. And all I can say:
It's da shizzle.
The real deal holyfield.
This sheezy is off da heezy.
[Emoji2]

Then that is probably the one my friend was talking about. And Chen Chen mentioned a National version of Haifu Oil. It is good if this is available for less money now.

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Suga D · Oct 6, 2016

Boogar said:
Im in the process of reboosting my H3N. Now it seems that the layer of glue is preventing the booster from sinking in. At first the rubber was strongly curved on the sponge side. Meaning the sponge got smaller. Now its still curved the same way just a little less. Should i try to peel of the rubber and booster layer? Would be very annoying tho.
I will reglue it now and see how it works out.
Ah and conerning throw angle of H3N boosted and unboosted... i think the boosted rubber has a lower throw angle. And if the angle gets higher the booster is wearing off. What are your experiences with that?

Hey Boogar, to your first question: it's no big deal. May I ask what kind of glue you've used? Well, anyhow:
Just pour a few drops of oil on the glue and slowly and gently start rubbing it off. If you've used something like Finezip or Revolution 3 it should come off almost in one piece. But also any other glue should be easy removable with a few drops of oil.

To your second question: I'm not so sure about the throw.
IMHO it's because a freshly boosted rubber is spinnier than one where the boost has already been wearing off.
Therefore the ball arcs more and pulls stronger downwards when spun properly.

Everything else doesn't make a lot of sense to me IMHO.
But as I said: just my theory...

But tbh, from watching your latest video (which is pretty nice BTW) I'm not so sure if your focus should really be lying on boosting. No offense meant.

But I actually think you are slowing down your progress and improvement by jumping between so very different rubber types.

See, that setup that carl's recommended to you in an older thread is actually pretty good if you want to improve and get a solid technique.
By changing back and forth you don't do yourself a favour.
If you want to consolidate your technique it would have been better to stick to that recommended setup than using a rubber which's characteristics change so drastically.
At first it's very likely that your performance level might drop a little (see Dima) but after a while, the setup would feel more natural and you would adapt up to the point when it starts feeling like another part of your body.
Some now might say, there are plenty children in China using a boosted H3 provincial, but ask yourself honestly, do you practice as much as they do? And is your technique already solid?
So using rubbers with longer lasting characteristics would actually help you improve quicker IMHO. So either carl's recommended setup or not boost would be more helpful from my point of view.

UpSideDownCarl said:
Then that is probably the one my friend was talking about. And Chen Chen mentioned a National version of Haifu Oil. It is good if this is available for less money now.

Sent from the Subterranean Workshop by Telepathy

Yeah, it's a bit more expensive than dian chi or Kai Lin, but this stuff is really crazy.

Boogar · Oct 6, 2016

Suga D said:
Hey Boogar, to your first question: it's no big deal. May I ask what kind of glue you've used? Well, anyhow:
Just pour a few drops of oil on the glue and slowly and gently start rubbing it off. If you've used something like Finezip or Revolution 3 it should come off almost in one piece. But also any other glue should be easy removable with a few drops of oil.

To your second question: I'm not so sure about the throw.
IMHO it's because a freshly boosted rubber is spinnier than one where the boost has already been wearing off.
Therefore the ball arcs more and pulls stronger downwards when spun properly.

Everything else doesn't make a lot of sense to me IMHO.
But as I said: just my theory...

But tbh, from watching your latest video (which is pretty nice BTW) I'm not so sure if your focus should really be lying on boosting. No offense meant.

But I actually think you are slowing down your progress and improvement by jumping between so very different rubber types.

See, that setup that carl's recommended to you in an older thread is actually pretty good if you want to improve and get a solid technique.
By changing back and forth you don't do yourself a favour.
If you want to consolidate your technique it would have been better to stick to that recommended setup than using a rubber which's characteristics change so drastically.
At first it's very likely that your performance level might drop a little (see Dima) but after a while, the setup would feel more natural and you would adapt up to the point when it starts feeling like another part of your body.
Some now might say, there are plenty children in China using a boosted H3 provincial, but ask yourself honestly, do you practice as much as they do? And is your technique already solid?
So using rubbers with longer lasting characteristics would actually help you improve quicker IMHO. So either carl's recommended setup or not boost would be more helpful from my point of view.

Yeah, it's a bit more expensive than dian chi or Kai Lin, but this stuff is really crazy.

Thanks for the info! What kind of oil should i use. Is olive oil fine?

The thing about the rubbers is that i haven't found a forehand rubber that i like. As i started out with H3N I think coming back to it would be beneficial... The best feeling i had so far was with boosted H3N. Thats why I am using it now. However the inconsistency in quality and the process of boosting is worrying me a little.

But somehow my understanding of the game has changed and now that i have started to be able to do counter topspins and such my technique gets messed up. For example the low ending position.

Edit: For that reason i bought myself a stratus powerwood with two Mark V.. but i dont like em. I get this mushy feedback from the impact and they seem very bouncy :-/

Suga D · Oct 6, 2016

Boogar said:
Thanks for the info! What kind of oil should i use. Is olive oil fine?

You're very welcome.

Olive should be fine too, but I've just used baby oil. But another forum member has used sunflower and that worked good as well. So olive should be fine too. But give it a little time to sink into the glue. A couple of minutes should be enough...

Boogar said:
The thing about the rubbers is that i haven't found a forehand rubber that i like. As i started out with H3N I think coming back to it would be beneficial... The best feeling i had so far was with boosted H3N. Thats why I am using it now. However the inconsistency in quality and the process of boosting is worrying me a little.

But somehow my understanding of the game has changed and now that i have started to be able to do counter topspins and such my technique gets messed up. For example the low ending position.

Well now this makes a lot of sense.
I also started playing with chinese rubbers. (That was a classical PF4)
And I started speed glueing way too early, even way before I was at your level (mostly cause all my friends did it) And everyone could see I was actually hindering myself a little, except me.
LOL
[Emoji2]
Maybe you really should stick to the H3 then, but maybe just don't reboost after the factory tuning wears off.
This isn't meant eternally. Whenever you feel your technique is solid enough, you can switch back. (A good indicator for this is if you can grab any bat and adjust within a couple of minutes)

You seem to be a talented young man, so maybe you can be a little wiser and not do the same mistake me and many others have made.

Boogar said:
Edit: For that reason i bought myself a stratus powerwood with two Mark V.. but i dont like em. I get this mushy feedback from the impact and they seem very bouncy :-/

Completely understandable if you're used to chinese rubbers.
If you would give yourself some time with it, it would actually start feeling more natural after a while.
But as I said, maybe just stick to whatever you're used to and what feels natural to you, but just give yourself some time to adapt...

Keep it up, buddy.
[Emoji2]

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