An all wood flexible Off+ blade?

Makelele · Oct 17, 2016

I'm posting this here, as I have done in mytabletennis.net and I will do in ooak.forum, as I guess that many members of each forum probably don't read the others, and I would like to gather as much information as possible... So here it goes.
Recently, I have tried the Hurricane King II (655). I liked the fact that is a flexible blade but I would like a faster flexible all wood blade. I am looking for a blade in the range of the Off + speed (the HK II that I tried was manually shortened in its head size, but I guess that with its original size, its speed would be the same. By the way, I am aware that DHS parameter of "Off ++" - as it is labeled the HK II- should be read as an "Off" in others brands' ratings).
May be I am wrong, but I guess that almost all DHS blades share the feature of being flexible, so I was thinking of DHS PG-9, DHS PG-7,or any of the DHS TG-7 models. Have you ever tried them, or other models of DHS that you can suggest ?
I am not yet decided about the type of wood I would prefer best. The number of plyes can be of 5, 7 or more.
But it has to be flexible, all wood, and faster than HK II.
By the way, I am not closed to DHS models, so if you have any suggestions from others brands (chinese or not), please feel free to share.

Finally, let me give you the scenario I'm viewing in my memory when I talk about the concept of "flexibility": with the Hurricane King II, some of my topspins that I thought were going out of the table, finally managed to go down and touch the table, surprising not only me but my opponent. I guess that is something similar to what happened with the OSP Expert blade (the allwood one), which I didn´t play with, but read comments about.
Thanks for the suggestions.

chuckjordan2 · Oct 18, 2016

Purely from a woodworker's perspective, to have a flexible blade the wood needs larger pores. And the larger pores means a softer surface. Bottom line, a soft feel and less power.

To get the speed up requires going to smaller pores in the wood (esp. The outer layers. This negates flexibility.

Enough of that, just get a spray can of a poly-urathane finish and spray an old blade and check out the results. Not a lot (spray), just a little and check it out. A light layer (or 2) of poly-urethane will seal the pores and harden the outer layer. Voila, you have an off+ blade....

Ymmv, test it out on an old/used blade.

Makelele · Oct 18, 2016

chuckjordan2 said:
Purely from a woodworker's perspective, to have a flexible blade the wood needs larger pores. And the larger pores means a softer surface. Bottom line, a soft feel and less power.

To get the speed up requires going to smaller pores in the wood (esp. The outer layers. This negates flexibility.

Enough of that, just get a spray can of a poly-urathane finish and spray an old blade and check out the results. Not a lot (spray), just a little and check it out. A light layer (or 2) of poly-urethane will seal the pores and harden the outer layer. Voila, you have an off+ blade....

Ymmv, test it out on an old/used blade.

Are you saying that "all wood Off plus blade" and "flexibility" are concepts that are contradictory?

You are killing my hopes...

May be some users of DHS PG-7 or PG-9 can share their experiences.

UpSideDownCarl · Oct 18, 2016

For a blade to be flexible, it also has to be thin.

For an All wood blade to be faster than Off, it has to be thick and therefore STIFF.

If you find an all wood blade that has good flex and is faster than Off speed range, I want to hear about it.

Clipper is a great All wood blade in the Off speed range. But it is 7mm thick and therefore, fairly stiff. For an all wood blade that is faster than a Clipper a 7mm Hinoki blade will do the trick but it is also not flexible. It is stiff.

For faster than that you may need a 9-12mm thick One Ply Hinoki blade which is really stiff. Those are amazing for blasting the ball. But they are so thick that, unless you are playing penhold they don't work that well. And, because they are only one ply, they are very easy to break and they are VERY expensive.

But flexible a all wood blade that is Off+, if it exists, I have not heard of it.

Sent from the Subterranean Workshop by Telepathy

NextLevel · Oct 18, 2016

Makelele said:
Are you saying that "all wood Off plus blade" and "flexibility" are concepts that are contradictory?

You are killing my hopes...

May be some users of DHS PG-7 or PG-9 can share their experiences.

Buddy,

I was going to kill your dreams on mytt, but I was waiting for someone to make sense. Since no one did, I just left you alone.

Hope your game is doing well.

I hated the DHS PG7 but as you know, my blade is a snail. The closest thing I have that comes to what you are looking for is the Stratus Powerwood, but it is not OFF+. Some of the Emerald/Rosewood type blades may come close but not by much,

laistrogian · Oct 18, 2016

Like what carl said, you can't get a flexible blade that's fast.

If you don't know what to get, just get OSP Virtuoso+

PS: Thanks carl NOW I CAN'T USE MY TBS ANYMORE

UpSideDownCarl · Oct 18, 2016

NextLevel said:
I hated the DHS PG7 but as you know, my blade is a snail. The closest thing I have that comes to what you are looking for is the Stratus Powerwood, but it is not OFF+. Some of the Emerald/Rosewood type blades may come close but not by much,

Funny, I hated PG7 also.

And I wouldn't call a Rosewood flexible and I would rate the speed on the low end of Off or the high end of Off-. But definitely nowhere near Off+.

Sent from the Subterranean Workshop by Telepathy

Liten · Oct 18, 2016

I have a PG7 and use it for fun with a LP bh rubber...
The blade is a hard nut to crack... it did not work well with neather Rakza 7, 7soft or Rakza 9. Big dipper = nope and not H3neo .. Best so far is a Xiom omega 4 pro.. for me it works real well on that blade.

Id follow Carls and NL's advice any day, both the Virtuoso+ and the Stratus PW seems (to me) what you should be looking for.. a good 5 ply all wood blade.

You could also check out the OSP Martin. Have a chat with Lazslo and see if he can give you some kind of reference-frame of the HK2, who knows, maby he can.

Ive been thinking about getting the Martin, but... now im leaning more and more towards the v+.. (yes, it's all Carls fault!)

Good luck!

UpSideDownCarl · Oct 18, 2016

Liten said:
Ive been thinking about getting the Martin, but... now im leaning more and more towards the v+.. (yes, it's all Carls fault!)

Liten, I sent you The Death Stick. I have The Elder Wand at home. This one hear is "Holly And Phoenix Feather!"

Lets see who knows what that means. [emoji2]

Sent from the Subterranean Workshop by Telepathy

chuckjordan2 · Oct 19, 2016

@makelele, i too have a PG7 and didn't include that on my reply. That blade has 7 plies, each glued together. Think about that for a minute..

The more layers a blade has, the stiffer it can possibly get. Remember, each layer normally has the grain in alternating patterns. Thus adding to the stiffness.

Seriously, did you read my last paragraph? If you spray a poly urathane finish on the outer layer it will harden it. Harder = more bounce = faster. Most people spray on too much and it defeats the purpose. If you spray light amounts and let it dry between. Then block sand back imperfections, you could add speed. All this will eliminate any soft feeling. Again, try an old blade first.

fais · Oct 19, 2016

Stiga intensity NCT? I have the penhold version and it had fled while the NCT coating definitely helps with speed.

UpSideDownCarl · Oct 19, 2016

chuckjordan2 said:
Seriously, did you read my last paragraph? If you spray a poly urathane finish on the outer layer it will harden it. Harder = more bounce = faster. Most people spray on too much and it defeats the purpose. If you spray light amounts and let it dry between. Then block sand back imperfections, you could add speed. All this will eliminate any soft feeling. Again, try an old blade first.

And if you do this, it can make the blade have much less dwell time and be stiffer so it will get less spin which could defeat the purpose of a flexible blade and may be part of why a Rosewood really isn't very flexible.

Sent from the Subterranean Workshop by Telepathy

Killerspintt · Oct 19, 2016

If you search for allwood blade with flex with the best speed (not off+), i thought about Nittaku Acoustic first, then Nexy Zealot (faster than acoustic but more stiff). I can't compare them with HKII, never tried this blade, but based on reviews, I think they are slower than the HK II.

Makelele · Oct 28, 2016

UpSideDownCarl said:
For a blade to be flexible, it also has to be thin.

For an All wood blade to be faster than Off, it has to be thick and therefore STIFF.

If you find an all wood blade that has good flex and is faster than Off speed range, I want to hear about it.

Just to clarify (although your rule would remain the same)- I guess that asking for an Off+ was an exaggeration of my part. Actually, the "off" range includes many blades with different speeds within that range. To make a reference, I was thinking of something of the speed of the old Butterfly SK7 (not SK7 Speed or Korbel SK7, which I don't know). The old SK7, according to Butterfly, is "mid fast" (and the one I have is faster than my HK II).

NextLevel · Oct 28, 2016

Makelele said:
Just to clarify (although your rule would remain the same)- I guess that asking for an Off+ was an exaggeration of my part. Actually, the "off" range includes many blades with different speeds within that range. To make a reference, I was thinking of something of the speed of the old Butterfly SK7 (not SK7 Speed or Korbel SK7, which I don't know). The old SK7, according to Butterfly, is "mid fast" (and the one I have is faster than my HK II).

Do you mean Chinese Off+, which is really European/Japanese OFF-, or do you mean European OFF+, which is Chinese Off+++?

Makelele · Oct 28, 2016

chuckjordan2 said:
Seriously, did you read my last paragraph? If you spray a poly urathane finish on the outer layer it will harden it. Harder = more bounce = faster. Most people spray on too much and it defeats the purpose. If you spray light amounts and let it dry between. Then block sand back imperfections, you could add speed. All this will eliminate any soft feeling. Again, try an old blade first.

Yes, I read it, but if I didn't understand wrong, putting the spray will add speed at the cost of making the blade stiffer, so at the end, what's the point of taking off one of the features that I am looking for?

NextLevel · Oct 28, 2016

The blades I have in mind for you, though you might not like the head heaviness of the best option:

Tibhar Stratus Powerwood
Gewo Balance Allround (which is not really Allround)

Makelele · Oct 28, 2016

NextLevel said:
Do you mean Chinese Off+, which is really European/Japanese OFF-, or do you mean European OFF+, which is Chinese Off+++?

Hi buddy,
The "off" range of the SK7 is like the Chinese "off ++" denomination, I guess. To that broad range of that European "off" or Chinese "off ++" is what I was talking about.

A coach would laugh at this equipment nonsense. I would call it "Makelele´s (fake) shortcut method to Brett Clarke´s whipping arm holy grail"

NextLevel · Oct 28, 2016

Makelele said:
Hi buddy,
The "off" range of the SK7 is like the Chinese "off ++" denomination, I guess. To that broad range of that European "off" or Chinese "off ++" is what I was talking about.

A coach would laugh at this equipment nonsense. I would call it "Makelele´s (fake) shortcut method to Brett Clarke´s whipping arm holy grail"

One of my clubmates wants to join in on my whipping technique. He said that it seems that I always generate sidespin when I whip so where's the topspin? That cracked me up...

On a more serious note, what is wrong with what you used when you were here? And one could argue that Korbel is also Chinese Off+ - I am never sure what Off+ vs Off++ is. What I do know is that I play best with ALL+/OFF-.

pgpg · Oct 28, 2016

UpSideDownCarl said:
And if you do this, it can make the blade have much less dwell time and be stiffer so it will get less spin which could defeat the purpose of a flexible blade and may be part of why a Rosewood really isn't very flexible.

Sent from the Subterranean Workshop by Telepathy

I'm beginning to think that TT players (EJs in particular) are like the princess from H.C.Andersen's story "Princess and the Pea":

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Princess_and_the_Pea

Our ability to differentiate sealed blade properties from non-sealed ones is probably approaching realm of magic and fairy tales.

TLDR: blind test?

An all wood flexible Off+ blade?

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