An all wood flexible Off+ blade?

TTFrenzy · Oct 28, 2016

Makelele said:
I'm posting this here, as I have done in mytabletennis.net and I will do in ooak.forum, as I guess that many members of each forum probably don't read the others, and I would like to gather as much information as possible... So here it goes.
Recently, I have tried the Hurricane King II (655). I liked the fact that is a flexible blade but I would like a faster flexible all wood blade. I am looking for a blade in the range of the Off + speed (the HK II that I tried was manually shortened in its head size, but I guess that with its original size, its speed would be the same. By the way, I am aware that DHS parameter of "Off ++" - as it is labeled the HK II- should be read as an "Off" in others brands' ratings).
May be I am wrong, but I guess that almost all DHS blades share the feature of being flexible, so I was thinking of DHS PG-9, DHS PG-7,or any of the DHS TG-7 models. Have you ever tried them, or other models of DHS that you can suggest ?
I am not yet decided about the type of wood I would prefer best. The number of plyes can be of 5, 7 or more.
But it has to be flexible, all wood, and faster than HK II.
By the way, I am not closed to DHS models, so if you have any suggestions from others brands (chinese or not), please feel free to share.

Finally, let me give you the scenario I'm viewing in my memory when I talk about the concept of "flexibility": with the Hurricane King II, some of my topspins that I thought were going out of the table, finally managed to go down and touch the table, surprising not only me but my opponent. I guess that is something similar to what happened with the OSP Expert blade (the allwood one), which I didn´t play with, but read comments about.
Thanks for the suggestions.

the blade you are describing does not exist. it defies the laws of physics u cant have great speed great spin and great control/feeling at the same time

if u want something fast allwood and still spinny with reasonably good control try osp virtuoso +, stiga clipper,korbel sk7.

They are all fast baldes with good spin but definitely not OFF + blades

UpSideDownCarl · Oct 28, 2016

And the difference between a 5 ply blade with flex and a 7 ply blade like a Clipper or an SK7 is that the 7 plies causes the blade to be stiff.

A blade with a larger head like the Stratus Power Wood could be closest to what you are looking for.

Or maybe getting OSP to make a Vitruoso Plus with an oversized head: like 153x161mm.

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PiZa · Oct 29, 2016

Just buy Tibhar Stratus Power Wood and reduce head size to 155 - 150 and should be fine.

UpSideDownCarl · Oct 30, 2016

PiZa said:
Just buy Tibhar Stratus Power Wood and reduce head size to 155 - 150 and should be fine.

150x155mm is too small. And making the head smaller will make the blade slower. So smaller head size will make an SPW a normal speed for a 5 ply all wood blade. In other words, a smaller head size will make the SPW an Off- speed, or less.

So if he wants a 5 ply, all wood blade with good flex, that is faster than a standard 5 ply, he has to have a larger head size.

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Raylazyfo · Oct 30, 2016

There are a lot of flexible all wood Donic blades but I dont think they are OFF.

Inkognito · Oct 30, 2016

Butterfly Photino kinda close to all wood in feeling due to ZLF and kinda flexy and off+ too. A special blade that splits users into lovers and haters of the blade. IMO a good alternative but the ones in the thread has some good blade skills so don't trust me fully on this.

Makelele · Nov 1, 2016

Originally Posted by UpSideDownCarl

And if you do this, it can make the blade have much less dwell time and be stiffer so it will get less spin which could defeat the purpose of a flexible blade and may be part of why a Rosewood really isn't very flexible.

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pgpg replied to this:

"I'm beginning to think that TT players (EJs in particular) are like the princess from H.C.Andersen's story "Princess and the Pea":

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Princess_and_the_Pea

Our ability to differentiate sealed blade properties from non-sealed ones is probably approaching realm of magic and fairy tales.

TLDR: blind test?"

Yeah, you are completely right, pgpg. I wish I had that princess´sensitivity applied to differentiate the amount of spin in some defenders' chops...
I hope you are giving what they deserve to those powerlooper wannabees in Boston

Makelele · Nov 1, 2016

NextLevel said:
One of my clubmates wants to join in on my whipping technique. He said that it seems that I always generate sidespin when I whip so where's the topspin? That cracked me up...

On a more serious note, what is wrong with what you used when you were here? And one could argue that Korbel is also Chinese Off+ - I am never sure what Off+ vs Off++ is. What I do know is that I play best with ALL+/OFF-.

Nothing wrong at all....well, not too wrong. It´s just that I liked the confidence that I have when I play with a blade with the flexibility of the HK II that I tried when I came back home, but prefer something faster. Don't take me very seriously. Just an EJ attack, I guess.

Makelele · Nov 1, 2016

UpSideDownCarl said:
150x155mm is too small. And making the head smaller will make the blade slower. So smaller head size will make an SPW a normal speed for a 5 ply all wood blade. In other words, a smaller head size will make the SPW an Off- speed, or less.

So if he wants a 5 ply, all wood blade with good flex, that is faster than a standard 5 ply, he has to have a larger head size.

Sent from the Subterranean Workshop by Telepathy

Carl, I like that possibility of a larger head size to add flexibility! May be a dumb question, but what is the logic behind that?

AgavE · Nov 1, 2016

Hey, buddy!
Just try HL3(Hurricane Long 3) it is the blade you're describing.
And That. Is. Not. PG7.

UpSideDownCarl · Nov 2, 2016

Makelele said:
Carl, I like that possibility of a larger head size to add flexibility! May be a dumb question, but what is the logic behind that?

The logic behind it is:

1) I have hit with a regular sized blade and the same wood plies and thickness with a larger head and the larger head is FASTER. My assumption is that maybe it is faster because it has more mass.

2) The larger head size gives way more feeling. I have felt this. It feels good. Two examples I can think of are: Stiga used to make a Clipper Oversize and an Allround Oversize. They both are the same exact thickness and ply construction as their regular sized counterparts. They are both noticeably faster, and have considerably more feeling than their regular sized counterparts.

3) If you have a small piece of wood that has some flex and you have a larger piece of the same wood (same thickness but larger surface area) the larger piece will have more flex because there is more surface area that can flex.

The down sides of a larger head are:

1) More head heavy.

2) More total weight.

3) More weight from More rubber.

If you are strong and can handle the extra weight, the downsides don't matter. If a setup with a total weight of 220 grams scares you then you may not want a larger head size.

But an oversized or slightly larger head size will give you more pace and more feeling from the same blade. Which is part of why the Tibhar Stratus Power Wood has a slightly larger head size than most blades but does not have a full out oversized head size.

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UpSideDownCarl · Nov 2, 2016

As far as feeling the difference between a blade with a thick layer of sealant on it compared to a blade that doesn't:

I have used a Rosewood V NCT and I have used a Rosewood V where the owner of the blade decided they did not like the NCT coating and sanded it off. The difference was DRAMATIC. If you were not able to feel it I would start checking if you were still breathing and had a pulse. I would be worried about you for sure.

All the NCT coating is is a fancy, thick layer of sealant. A thick layer of sealant like that, you definitely would be able to feel it.

Removing the NCT coating made the blade much softer, slower, gave it more flex and a totally different ball feel. If a Polyurethane coat was half as thick you would still feel it.

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Makelele · Nov 6, 2016

UpSideDownCarl said:
The logic behind it is:

1) I have hit with a regular sized blade and the same wood plies and thickness with a larger head and the larger head is FASTER. My assumption is that maybe it is faster because it has more mass.

2) The larger head size gives way more feeling. I have felt this. It feels good. Two examples I can think of are: Stiga used to make a Clipper Oversize and an Allround Oversize. They both are the same exact thickness and ply construction as their regular sized counterparts. They are both noticeably faster, and have considerably more feeling than their regular sized counterparts.

3) If you have a small piece of wood that has some flex and you have a larger piece of the same wood (same thickness but larger surface area) the larger piece will have more flex because there is more surface area that can flex.

The down sides of a larger head are:

1) More head heavy.

2) More total weight.

3) More weight from More rubber.

If you are strong and can handle the extra weight, the downsides don't matter. If a setup with a total weight of 220 grams scares you then you may not want a larger head size.

But an oversized or slightly larger head size will give you more pace and more feeling from the same blade. Which is part of why the Tibhar Stratus Power Wood has a slightly larger head size than most blades but does not have a full out oversized head size.

Sent from the Subterranean Workshop by Telepathy

Thanks. That makes sense.

Makelele · Nov 6, 2016

AgavE said:
Hey, buddy!
Just try HL3(Hurricane Long 3) it is the blade you're describing.
And That. Is. Not. PG7.

AgavE, doesn't HL3 has the same outer wood than the PG7 (limba I guess)?
Which are the differences? Head size, quality of wood, thickness, inner plies?
Some people love PG7, some hate it....
Some say PG7' s sweet spot is minimal and Brian Pace says that HL3 has a big sweet spot.

AgavE · Nov 8, 2016

Makelele said:
AgavE, doesn't HL3 has the same outer wood than the PG7 (limba I guess)?
Which are the differences? Head size, quality of wood, thickness, inner plies?
Some people love PG7, some hate it....
Some say PG7' s sweet spot is minimal and Brian Pace says that HL3 has a big sweet spot.

yes, the same outer wool ply, the same quantity of plies, the same colour of plies, BUT. not the same quality of the blade, absolutely not the same feeling of playing with that blade.
it's like an opel kadette and a mercedes benz S klasse ;-) they are both made for driving but not the same...
and, yes for the quality of hl3 we have more sweet spot size.

Samee85 · Nov 8, 2016

[h=1]Try this one Avalox P500 .. You will be not disappointed for sure[/h]

Jaffar Lone · Nov 10, 2016

I would recommend Hurricane WL, it is a stiff 5-ply blade. Whether or not it gives more spin than HK i do not know. Worthy a try in my opinion.

An all wood flexible Off+ blade?

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