Cleaning rubbers

Suga D said:

I guess that could be quite right.
If I remember correctly, the Revolution 3 cleaner (from the last pic i've posted) is said to be containing some kind of oil. It softens up the topsheet over a while of usage and hence overusage of it isn't recommendable at all.
Hmmmmh.

Click to expand...

Hey, did you miss when I wrote this:

UpSideDownCarl said:

As far as using some form of detergent to get oils off your rubbers: when my topsheet is almost dead, I put some WD40 on the topsheet and it makes it grip better for another 3-4 weeks. When you boost, you are using oils to expand the sponge. Certain oils help cause the topsheet to be more grippy for a while.

Click to expand...

If you missed it, WD40's primary ingredient is some kind of oil.

Baby oil is also often used to make a topsheet regain its grip. Paraffin should work pretty well also.

The oil sinks into the rubber. The rubber absorbs it. And then the topsheet becomes more grippy for a few weeks. You can do a treatment like that 3-4 times and still get a little extra grip when the grip is wearing out. Like when you boost and the boost wears out so you boost again. You treat the topsheet. It gets grippy. That lasts a few weeks. It starts losing grip again. You add the oil again. etc. At a certain point it starts not helping because the rubber has lost too much elasticity.

If you ever want to make a tacky rubber like H3 regain its tackiness, put some mineral oil (or baby oil, same thing) on the topsheet. Spread it. Let it sink in. That should take less than 5 min. Then put a plastic sheet over the topsheet. Overnight that will revive it a little. Leave it for a week it will be a little more tacky. Leave it for 3 months and it will be more tacky than when it was new.

And Der, what was your recipe for reviving a tacky topsheet. I know I said it already. But I don't think anyone believed me. [emoji2]

Try those things on a rubber that is dead to test it out. If the rubber is dead, it can't really hurt to try.

Sent from the Subterranean Workshop by Telepathy

My not so secret treatment to restore tacky topsheet is lemon juice and Olive oil. Extra Virgin.

Sent from my SM-T350 using Tapatalk

And yes to much oil on the topsheet will make bubles appear......but they will disappear after month+-

UpSideDownCarl said:

Hey, did you miss when I wrote this:



If you missed it, WD40's primary ingredient is some kind of oil.

Baby oil is also often used to make a topsheet regain its grip. Paraffin should work pretty well also.

The oil sinks into the rubber. The rubber absorbs it. And then the topsheet becomes more grippy for a few weeks. You can do a treatment like that 3-4 times and still get a little extra grip when the grip is wearing out. Like when you boost and the boost wears out so you boost again. You treat the topsheet. It gets grippy. That lasts a few weeks. It starts losing grip again. You add the oil again. etc. At a certain point it starts not helping because the rubber has lost too much elasticity.

If you ever want to make a tacky rubber like H3 regain its tackiness, put some mineral oil (or baby oil, same thing) on the topsheet. Spread it. Let it sink in. That should take less than 5 min. Then put a plastic sheet over the topsheet. Overnight that will revive it a little. Leave it for a week it will be a little more tacky. Leave it for 3 months and it will be more tacky than when it was new.

And Der, what was your recipe for reviving a tacky topsheet. I know I said it already. But I don't think anyone believed me. [emoji2]

Try those things on a rubber that is dead to test it out. If the rubber is dead, it can't really hurt to try.

Sent from the Subterranean Workshop by Telepathy

Click to expand...

Thanks for reminding, Carl. That's absolutely correct. I think i even can remember you writing this in a different thread. Somehow that didn't come to my mind at all.

But then again it would be interesting for me to know the ingredients of the foam stuff from Bobpuls' video, which looks pretty much like the BTY foam from my second photo.
I'm not so sure if it really contains a lot of oil or what it is.
Pretty much the same goes also for the stuff from my first pic, which i believe must be containing an amount of ethanol, just like Baal wrote in his earlier posts.

Baal said:

Water is all you need really. When my rubbers start to wear I used to use 70% ethanol in water for awhile. Gets rid of oils nicely. I never tried a detergent. Might work.

These days I use a factory booster rubber (MX-P) which actually starts to go bad before the topsheet is super worn. So I just use water and a microfiber cloth.

Click to expand...

With its blueish colour it looks a little like the window cleaning liquid for cars.

Maybe this doesn't sound being worth the research to some.
But I think at the end of the day I'm not the only one that would like to know, if what is sold in shops really helps degrading rubbers faster, or if these products really help make rubbers last longer and of course by how much.

To me Bobpuls' video has been clearly pointing towards the longevity, But of course that's not scientifically proven.

We then also might find out if Der_Echte's recipe (not talking 'bout the lemon juice/oil mixture) carries a secret ingredient that helps rubbers be playable for two or more years...

Though i must admit that the lemon juice/olive oil mixture sounds way better to me than the other mentioned one...

[Emoji6]

Der_Echte said:

My not so secret treatment to restore tacky topsheet is lemon juice and Olive oil. Extra Virgin.

Sent from my SM-T350 using Tapatalk

Click to expand...

This sounds much better than the first recipe.
[Emoji106]

UpSideDownCarl said:

Alright guys, let's drop the arguing and the personal attacks. Please.

And I am willing to bet that most of you would be happy to put your hands on some of the sweaty legs, arms and shoulders I was just in contact with and you might even start thinking about exchanging saliva or other bodily fluids with quite a few of them.

[emoji2]

[emoji91] [emoji213] [emoji213] [emoji91]


Sent from the Subterranean Workshop by Telepathy

Click to expand...

No photos = hoax [emoji12]

Let me have them... [emoji7] [emoji7]

rokphish said:

No photos = hoax [emoji12]

Let me have them... [emoji7] [emoji7]

Click to expand...

Ummm. I don't have any proof. You are right.






Sent from the Subterranean Workshop by Telepathy

I need more and from various angles... [emoji7]

rokphish said:

I need more and from various angles... [emoji7]

Click to expand...

Hehe.

I chose a photo where you get an idea but cannot really see much for a reason. If I posted photos from yesterday's class Dan and TTDaily could get in trouble with the international authorities.


Sent from the Subterranean Workshop by Telepathy

I have an idea alright... I have lots of ideas... [emoji7] [emoji7]

The olive oil lemon juice combo is a rejuvenation, not a daily maintenance. Mostly water is good, but the rubbers need a little oil to retain their elasticity, the better cleaners have a little.

The hand secretes oil along with the rest and the ritual of breathing and hand wiping the topsheet gives it a little.

If you play every day for 4 hours, you reach the useful life of 100 hours in a month.

You could wipe that sucks once during play on your shorts and still carry that rubber to 100 hrs easily.

For those who play only occasionally, cleaning, protective sheets, and monthly rejuvenation are needed to make the rubber last to the one year mark to hit 100 hrs.

Sent from my SM-T350 using Tapatalk

UpSideDownCarl said:

Hey, did you miss when I wrote this:



If you missed it, WD40's primary ingredient is some kind of oil.

Baby oil is also often used to make a topsheet regain its grip. Paraffin should work pretty well also.

The oil sinks into the rubber. The rubber absorbs it. And then the topsheet becomes more grippy for a few weeks. You can do a treatment like that 3-4 times and still get a little extra grip when the grip is wearing out. Like when you boost and the boost wears out so you boost again. You treat the topsheet. It gets grippy. That lasts a few weeks. It starts losing grip again. You add the oil again. etc. At a certain point it starts not helping because the rubber has lost too much elasticity.

If you ever want to make a tacky rubber like H3 regain its tackiness, put some mineral oil (or baby oil, same thing) on the topsheet. Spread it. Let it sink in. That should take less than 5 min. Then put a plastic sheet over the topsheet. Overnight that will revive it a little. Leave it for a week it will be a little more tacky. Leave it for 3 months and it will be more tacky than when it was new.

And Der, what was your recipe for reviving a tacky topsheet. I know I said it already. But I don't think anyone believed me. [emoji2]

Try those things on a rubber that is dead to test it out. If the rubber is dead, it can't really hurt to try.

Sent from the Subterranean Workshop by Telepathy

Click to expand...

Used a cheap 4 euro racket from carrefour for a month before buying a proper blade rubbre combo.I cleaned (demineralized water) it and put a plastic protective foil.After 8 months i gave to a friend but, i did take a look before.The plastic foil was so tight on the rubber attached, really hard to get it off.The tack the rubber had could hold the ball like forever (no exaggeration here).Made a test and after 3 minutes i stopped since i didnt think that ball will come off .Rubber was also ittf legal :

http://www.ittf.com/ittf_equipment/...any=CARREFOUR&s_List_No=29+&s_Type=&textile=&

Der_Echte said:

The olive oil lemon juice combo is a rejuvenation, not a daily maintenance. Mostly water is good, but the rubbers need a little oil to retain their elasticity, the better cleaners have a little.

The hand secretes oil along with the rest and the ritual of breathing and hand wiping the topsheet gives it a little.

If you play every day for 4 hours, you reach the useful life of 100 hours in a month.

You could wipe that sucks once during play on your shorts and still carry that rubber to 100 hrs easily.

For those who play only occasionally, cleaning, protective sheets, and monthly rejuvenation are needed to make the rubber last to the one year mark to hit 100 hrs.

Sent from my SM-T350 using Tapatalk

Click to expand...

So you use the secret formula to squeeze the last bit out of a rubber you mean? In general I'd assume that lemon juice would be pretty bad for a rubber.

I can buy the oil though, been looking around and for example the Falco Life Expander seems to be at least partly oil based. I would have assumed that saturating the rubber with oil would be bad, but according to Bobpuls's earlier answer it seems it will absorb it if you wait long enough. So I'm starting to buy into this whole oil thing, will have to try it out when my rubbers start to reach end of life.

EDIT: I'm assuming here that the oil helps the rubber from drying out. As I see it there are 2 ways a rubber reaches end of life, either you play a lot and wear it out that way of it dries/stiffens out over time. The oil probably prolongs the time it takes to dry up?

In many threads Carl has described how the exposure to air oxidized the rubber. Some are more prone than others. Oil helps stop this but not as much as you think. Protective sheets and edge tape help too, but it is all a losing battle.

Sent from my SM-T350 using Tapatalk

Like with coffee freshly ground, no matter what you do, the coffee is gunna get stale. It has been exposed to air and it is too late, reactions are taking place.

You can slow it down, but at some point the coffee is now become rancid and unusable.

Rubbers take longer and your preventive measures have a longer lasting effect, but the concept of inevitable failure down the road is very true.

Sent from my SM-T350 using Tapatalk

ttdgfg said:

Used a cheap 4 euro racket from carrefour for a month before buying a proper blade rubbre combo.I cleaned (demineralized water) it and put a plastic protective foil.After 8 months i gave to a friend but, i did take a look before.The plastic foil was so tight on the rubber attached, really hard to get it off.The tack the rubber had could hold the ball like forever (no exaggeration here).Made a test and after 3 minutes i stopped since i didnt think that ball will come off .Rubber was also ittf legal :

http://www.ittf.com/ittf_equipment/...any=CARREFOUR&s_List_No=29+&s_Type=&textile=&

Click to expand...

That's interesting. Was the rubber tacky before, or was it just grippy and then turned tacky?
Maybe the protection sheets could really have something to do with this too...

Well anyway, since i seem to be the only one finding it questionable, to spread sweat on rubbers, with all its outwashed minerals from the body, plus some other nice "ingredients",
i'll just let the guys who believe in using their body liquids carry on, but i can't stop repeating that i still don't like the thought of doing that and i still would love seeing some serious independent research (not sponsored by a producer of rubber cleaners) about this.

My ranking list would be
1. rubber cleaner
2. distilled water
3. spring water
4. tap water
5. Less questionable liquids
6. very questionable liquids

[Emoji6]

But to me it's no surprise anymore why this here is mainly a sausage party and so few females tend to post....

EDIT: pls take my last sentence with a grain of salt. I'm quite aware that this isn't the only reason
[Emoji12]

Guys, oils don't make the rubber "moist" in a way that is good. They don't protect the rubber from breaking down. In fact, they actually cause the rubber molecules to break down faster. But faster is still slow enough for them to do something else that helps the rubber grip and the sponge to expand. And yes, it is actually the same thing that the oil does to the rubber and the sponge.

If you take a regular household sponge and put in on a water spill, the sponge will expand as it absorbs the water. This will also make the sponge more springy for a while.

When you put oil on a TT sponge, the sponge absorbs the oil and it expands and for a time it is more springy. Then, over time it starts getting less elastic and more rigid. Although the oil causes the sponge to expand it also causes the molecules of the sponge to break down and, over time, they lose some elasticity.

Oil does pretty much the same thing to the topsheet. The rubber of the topsheet does not look porous like the sponge. But it is much more porous than it looks.

Here is why oil works on an older topsheet, but is not advisable on newer sheet that still has grip:

The oil expands the rubber, puts the rubber molecules on stretch from the expansion, and causes some of the rubber molecules to break down and not line up as evenly which causes a little extra grip for a time. But not for all that long.

So, part of why an oil works for the short term, is that it causes damage to the molecular structure of the rubber.

So if you used oil on your OLD WORN OUT topsheet, and it gave you 3-4 weeks of extra use with a little bit of renewed grip, then, that is okay even though, in the long run, 6 or 7 months down the road, it would cause the rubber to be in worse shape. But this use of oil on the topsheet will not restore the original grip to a Euro/Japanese topsheet. It will just add some. And it would make no sense to do this when your rubber is new and is not worn out because that would cause you to ultimately have the rubber wear out sooner. And it would not increase the grip on a new rubber in any way that is useful.

When the rubber is basically dead, using something like WD40 or baby oil to get a few more weeks of grip is fine because the alternative is to simply throw the rubber out.

After 3-4 weeks, when the rubber isn't grabbing well again, you can try the treatment again. Sometimes it only works once. Sometimes you can get 3-4 topsheet rejuvenations. But at a certain point the treatment won't make up for the loss of elasticity of the rubber.

All this information is about Euro/Japanese grippy non-tacky rubbers.


Sent from the Subterranean Workshop by Telepathy

5 pages... 5!

Really?

Liten said:

5 pages... 5!

Really?

Click to expand...

Hahaha
[Emoji2]
Even OP stopped posting and probably sits back with a bag o popcorn.

For a tacky rubber, when the tackiness starts wearing out you just add a small amount of baby oil or mineral oil to the topsheet and cover the topsheet with a plastic sheet.

If you leave it over night, it will restore a little. If you leave it a week it will restore the tackiness a little more. If you leave it 3 months, it will restore the tackiness quite a lot. But the trouble would be that as you restore the tackiness the elasticity of the rubber and sponge still slowly gets worse. And that means the rubber and sponge stop rebounding as well so there are certain things they will not do as well even though the rubber still grabs the ball well.

Part of what a good rubber does on contact with a ball is distort to the shape of the ball on impact. And then rebound. A rubber with compromised elasticity from age, even if it grabs the ball well, does not do all the things you want it to do.


Sent from the Subterranean Workshop by Telepathy