Just curious how many Penholders are on TTD?

Zaccai · Aug 7, 2019

There was a time that I switched to traditional one-sided CPen to gain an edge of surprise over my numerous Table Tennis buddies. After A couple weeks I switched back so that I could grow more as a player, but I performed fairly well as a penholder using a standard racket.

suds79 · Aug 14, 2019

Been a long time since I've uploaded anything. Here is a quick less than 1 minute highlight clip from club night this last Sunday only.

Let me know if you guys like this short format. People are busy so I figure shorter is better and on instagram you can only post videos up to a minute anyways so I figure this might be a good fit.

instagram.com/steve.p.soper/

SFF_lib · Aug 15, 2019

suds79 said:
Been a long time since I've uploaded anything. Here is a quick less than 1 minute highlight clip from club night this last Sunday only.

Let me know if you guys like this short format. People are busy so I figure shorter is better and on instagram you can only post videos up to a minute anyways so I figure this might be a good fit.

instagram.com/steve.p.soper/

You have pretty good control of your shots given that you use your wrists a lot.

Sent from my PAR-LX9 using Tapatalk

suds79 · Aug 15, 2019

SFF_lib said:
You have pretty good control of your shots given that you use your wrists a lot.

Sent from my PAR-LX9 using Tapatalk

Thanks. It was a slower night at club as there was a tournament that same day 2 hours away. So my level of competition I was playing was a pinch down (although the guy here has potential). Anyways, I do the Fh strawberry & BH strawberry you're probably mainly referencing here sparingly.... I mean one of those was a fake BH flip to FH strawberry. That's just pure goofing around when you do that.

(@ 13 seconds)

I guess I should say. The wristy flicks you see on service receive I use sparingly. It is nice for a change up.

There was one flick i did in the rally where i was off the table that curved just out of his reach. The angle of the camera didn't catch it all that well. Now that shot I'll do a lot if a ball is lower around my left hip. It feels a like like a normal pendulum serve that way. So you can put side/top, side/back on it, etc. That one I do use a fair amount. (@ 10 seconds)

OldschoolPenholder · Aug 29, 2019

suds79 said:

suds,

I just spoke to Xu Xin. He grudgingly will pass his nickname of The Cloudwalker onto you now!

OldschoolPenholder · Aug 29, 2019

Quickie review of Gambler Fire Touch

Started playing with my new blade, Gambler Fire Touch with Big Dipper on FH and Xiom Pro Vega on RPB. I didn't glue the Big Dipper that well... rushing to get it on and play with it. Rubber coming off. So I have been playing 75% of the time with my Butterfly Taksim. Just finished regluing for a 2nd time LOL

42andbackpains tried out the Gambler and liked it. He felt like it was a bargain for $40 as it felt to him like a $100+ carbon blade. It is comparable to an Innerforce according to the Gambler/Zeropong website.

I am a smasher, am inconsistent FH looper. I generally loop one and the rest are smashes or blocks. Initially, I was not able to smash with the Fire Touch. It could also be the Big Dipper, as it is my first time using it, or the combination of blade and rubber that my smashing is off.

Because of this, I will force myself to FH loop a lot more and hopefully repeatedly. With the Taksim, my smashes feel "solid" and my loops are OK. With the Fire Touch/Big Dipper, I need to practice with it and get used to it. May also be my form/technique, but basically I am going to reinvent myself as a challenge and force myself to spin more instead of my smash/punch/block/push game.

As it is advertised as good at control and pushing, I tried TPB blocking (which at some point in self-learning RPB, i actually lost that stroke!) ... I am able to TPB block with the combo of Big Dipper and Fire Touch. Pushed a bit but not quite used to the combo of blade/rubber yet. I generally have a heavy downspin push when I want and with the new setup, it seems i still have a heavy downspin push.

I was able to RPB block a partner's FH loops consistently. The RPB block with the Fire Touch felt better to me than using the Taksim.

Looking forward to serious push practice and FH loop practice.

~osph

p.s. thank you to suds for the reco of this blade.

suds79 · Aug 29, 2019

I'm only about 3 weeks and it is going really well so far. I'm trying something I have failed at in the past.

Reprogramming my brain to opt for (and feel confident in) the RPB block vs the TPB block.

It's a strange thing but say you're warming up with someone. I can TPB block back all day. No problem.
RPB block back in warmup? I was good for 1 or 2 hits before I have an error. Hit a finger. Most likely block it in the net, etc.

Now when it came time to rip the ball, the RPB was the easy choice and it's very spiny (some of my highlights you'll see that in videos). But I wasn't consistent with it. Thus the need to develop a more toned down version of the shot that's more consistent when you need it.

Well outside of a little technique adjustment, more on that in a minute, I think this largely just comes down to practice. I've had about 3 weeks or not where I've willing accepted that I might make more errors but dang it I'm going to figure out this RPB block and drive. I feel like it has gone from "horrible" to "not bad"

It kinda makes sense in my head now that I'm figuring it out. But the TPB face is naturally more flat or neutral. Where as the RPB face is naturally pretty closed. So I've been trained all my life to block with the TPB moving my arm forward. With RPB it clicked when I did two things. 1 - Don't use wrist. Engage the wrist when I want to spin it which is my normal stroke when I want to go for it. 2 - Instead of forward. Every motion is forward and up at I'd say this small 45 degree angle. I have to feel the blade touching the upper part of the ball. Otherwise, that ball is going in the net.

So much like how you shadow practice a block punching motion. I'm retraining my brain to go forward & up with it on the RPB.

I'm also trying not to beat myself up if a ball quickly comes to my backhand and my brain instinctively uses the TPB. It's still a useful stroke. On your cross-over point and when I fish off the table. Those are all done with TPB.

But it was a necessary change as vs powerful loops or smashes my confidence in being able to not block that ball long is much higher in opting for the RPB block in those instances.

SFF_lib · Aug 30, 2019

suds79 said:
I'm only about 3 weeks and it is going really well so far. I'm trying something I have failed at in the past.

Reprogramming my brain to opt for (and feel confident in) the RPB block vs the TPB block.

It's a strange thing but say you're warming up with someone. I can TPB block back all day. No problem.
RPB block back in warmup? I was good for 1 or 2 hits before I have an error. Hit a finger. Most likely block it in the net, etc.

Now when it came time to rip the ball, the RPB was the easy choice and it's very spiny (some of my highlights you'll see that in videos). But I wasn't consistent with it. Thus the need to develop a more toned down version of the shot that's more consistent when you need it.

Well outside of a little technique adjustment, more on that in a minute, I think this largely just comes down to practice. I've had about 3 weeks or not where I've willing accepted that I might make more errors but dang it I'm going to figure out this RPB block and drive. I feel like it has gone from "horrible" to "not bad"

It kinda makes sense in my head now that I'm figuring it out. But the TPB face is naturally more flat or neutral. Where as the RPB face is naturally pretty closed. So I've been trained all my life to block with the TPB moving my arm forward. With RPB it clicked when I did two things. 1 - Don't use wrist. Engage the wrist when I want to spin it which is my normal stroke when I want to go for it. 2 - Instead of forward. Every motion is forward and up at I'd say this small 45 degree angle. I have to feel the blade touching the upper part of the ball. Otherwise, that ball is going in the net.

So much like how you shadow practice a block punching motion. I'm retraining my brain to go forward & up with it on the RPB.

I'm also trying not to beat myself up if a ball quickly comes to my backhand and my brain instinctively uses the TPB. It's still a useful stroke. On your cross-over point and when I fish off the table. Those are all done with TPB.

But it was a necessary change as vs powerful loops or smashes my confidence in being able to not block that ball long is much higher in opting for the RPB block in those instances.

It's never easy. In Wang Hao's tutorial he suggests beginners to lock their wrist while doing RPB. That means you move your forearm only.

But in order to create the dangerous side spin you must use your wrist. Due to the natural penhold grip you will brush the side of the ball if you loop with your wrist+forearm. Wang Hao does that all thw time. The trouble is that it's just so risky and inconsistent. But I am sure you will get there with enough practice.

Sent from my PAR-LX9 using Tapatalk

suds79 · Aug 30, 2019

SFF_lib said:
It's never easy. In Wang Hao's tutorial he suggests beginners to lock their wrist while doing RPB. That means you move your forearm only.

But in order to create the dangerous side spin you must use your wrist. Due to the natural penhold grip you will brush the side of the ball if you loop with your wrist+forearm. Wang Hao does that all thw time. The trouble is that it's just so risky and inconsistent. But I am sure you will get there with enough practice.

Sent from my PAR-LX9 using Tapatalk

Literally every single word you said as I was reading I was going "Yep." "Yep. True." "agreed". etc.

+1

Flatstyk · Aug 30, 2019

Hi, I am a RH penhold player, with the TPB being my default backhand. However in the last couple of years I have spent some time adding RPB stroke for some backhand serve receive. Just this past week a "lightbulb" moment of understanding improved my results. My normal ready position for serve receive has been to get low and hold racquet vertically in front of me at about table height. When a RH player serves to my (also RH) backhand, the travel distance for my stroke was short and quick, which enabled an off the bounce receive...but it was mostly a TPB punchblock and if I consciously used RPB my stroke was short and often weak. BUT. When I realized if my ready position was to hold racquet in line with my right hip, then to take a RPB stroke required a longer movement with the unexpected bonus of more of a natural backswing and also more of a quick drop/bow motion. Result: much stronger return!

SFF_lib · Aug 30, 2019

Flatstyk said:
Hi, I am a RH penhold player, with the TPB being my default backhand. However in the last couple of years I have spent some time adding RPB stroke for some backhand serve receive. Just this past week a "lightbulb" moment of understanding improved my results. My normal ready position for serve receive has been to get low and hold racquet vertically in front of me at about table height. When a RH player serves to my (also RH) backhand, the travel distance for my stroke was short and quick, which enabled an off the bounce receive...but it was mostly a TPB punchblock and if I consciously used RPB my stroke was short and often weak. BUT. When I realized if my ready position was to hold racquet in line with my right hip, then to take a RPB stroke required a longer movement with the unexpected bonus of more of a natural backswing and also more of a quick drop/bow motion. Result: much stronger return!

Interesting!!

I have never thought about the impact of racket position in service return.

Sent from my PAR-LX9 using Tapatalk

netdriver · Sep 7, 2019

hey penholders

my forehand has been more powerful over the past few months and i feel great

however the most frequent problem i had when playing a forehand topspin is an unstable wrist

my coach (whom is a penholder himself) wants me to have my wrist fixed in place (a little wrist is still allowed) which i find really uncomfortable and a little taxing on my wrist since i just force it in place

any tips on fixing it? maybe my finger pressure on the blade is not strong enough?

lasta · Oct 16, 2019

netdriver said:
hey penholders

my forehand has been more powerful over the past few months and i feel great

however the most frequent problem i had when playing a forehand topspin is an unstable wrist

my coach (whom is a penholder himself) wants me to have my wrist fixed in place (a little wrist is still allowed) which i find really uncomfortable and a little taxing on my wrist since i just force it in place

any tips on fixing it? maybe my finger pressure on the blade is not strong enough?

Hi netdriver, it could be an issue with your grip. I notice that you are using a Jpen, are you trying too much to extend your thumb to the middle or wrap your index finger on the handle "hook"? This can cause the "blade droop" issue and an unnatural contact angle. The Droop is further exaggerated if you have a very closed (curled) finger placement on the back.

Try a slightly wider front side grip (index finger just enough to touch to "hook"), and extend the backside (2 fingers touching). Both helps with adding stability. Also, point the wrist slightly up but don't strain/stiffen it too much.

Another possible problem is having too light a racket. I see you are single sided (me too!), but I compensate by using a 115g blade.

netdriver · Oct 18, 2019

lasta said:
Hi netdriver, it could be an issue with your grip. I notice that you are using a Jpen, are you trying too much to extend your thumb to the middle or wrap your index finger on the handle "hook"? This can cause the "blade droop" issue and an unnatural contact angle. The Droop is further exaggerated if you have a very closed (curled) finger placement on the back.

Try a slightly wider front side grip (index finger just enough to touch to "hook"), and extend the backside (2 fingers touching). Both helps with adding stability. Also, point the wrist slightly up but don't strain/stiffen it too much.

Another possible problem is having too light a racket. I see you are single sided (me too!), but I compensate by using a 115g blade.

nice to see you here lasta

i managed to fix my wrist problem, it took me a month. you're right, its a problem with my grip.

the source of my problems as i found out is that my grip is not firm enough and the pressure on the blade with my thumb and middle finger is not enough.

my grip definitely changed. thumb more parallel to the cork and the side of the middle finger to provide support rather than the tip of the middle finger. now my grip is firm and i can close my blade just nicely without issues.

regarding penhold grip, i don't think cocking the wrist upwards is necessary. from what i've found when experimenting, pressure with your thumb and middle finger and relaxing the index finger automatically makes your wrist point upwards with the tip of your blade facing straight. its more comfortable than forcing the wrist, you should try it.

no complaints so far from coach so i think its good

though i still encounter slippage of my grip due to sweat and that i'm still not used to the new grip when transitioning from TPB to forehand.

thanks for your suggestion back at OOAK, they really helped a lot.

suds79 · Oct 29, 2019

This an older video but I thought I'd post it here to see what you guys think.

How the (bleep) does this husky kid get so much power on his TPB?

Open ups on backspin, power, spin, flips, he can do all that. But the ball is exploding off his bat. How?

Is it his technique?
Is it his mass to his advantage?
Is it that his blade is likely a 10mm thick Jpen so he's basically hitting the ball with a large club?

What do you guys think?

Thanks.

lasta · Oct 29, 2019

I think its mostly technique. By the look of his swings he is using a very "backhand oriented" penhold grip, ie index fingers wrapping deep into the hook.

My caoch showed me a similar grip (Old Zhuang Zedong videos also show something similar). Good for backhand snap/flick, but forces you to lift your elbow to close down forehands and limits forehand power.

I tried to learn the backhand snap (blade dropping down, snap out and hook back with the index). But its a very low percentage shot and finicky about correct contact point, too easy to hit too high (blade angle changes through the stroke).

Also, nearly impossible if you use a deeper/wider grip which need to press the index and almost locks the wrist for backhands.

On a side note, I bought a lighter penhold and shakehand setup (short pips forehand, inverted backhand) to try and pick up RPB again or learn shakehand from scratch. So much subtle changes! So frustrating! Why can't I optimize for the perfect forehand and still hit harder from the backhand!!

Not saying I'm better (I'm not), but his forehand is pretty weak for a Jpen'er. Those guys are supposed to be the hard hitters of our sport!

netdriver · Oct 29, 2019

its definitely a technique of his

ive tried to emulate his TPB for fun to no avail. i just dont know how he can have such a stable grip doing his technique!!

netdriver · Oct 29, 2019

https://youtu.be/tlLXRBGSWL0

closest backhand i could find similar to Hirano Nobuyaki's

lasta · Oct 29, 2019

BTW, you mentioned mass? It doesn't help, I know.

suds79 · Oct 29, 2019

lasta said:
BTW, you mentioned mass? It doesn't help, I know.

lol. +1

Noted.

Just curious how many Penholders are on TTD?

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