Just curious how many Penholders are on TTD?

tt chats · May 10, 2019

OldschoolPenholder said:
Welcome to TTD and this thread Sir!

You are in Hong Kong and in your club there is less than 5% PH!?!? Is Wong Chun Ting the best HK player?

Hi OldschoolPenholder,

Thank you Sir!

Yes, I'm in HK, but not only a club, the whole of HK, full of the Chinese, is less than that amount. That 's the tragedy!

Yes, Wong is the best and ranks well, but that's still not convincing enough. Many Chinese coaches here correct the kids' PH as a kind of mistake.

Are you Asian, as a PH, Sir?

The_TT_Bat_Guy · May 11, 2019

Been a penhold player for over two decades now and have a few setups, some for fun.

Started out as a chop blocker focused strongly on third ball attack due largely to my early training being against a table like forrest gump. About three years ago, I switched to work on a more spin-based looping game with flicks to start attacks.

Main: As per profile
Blade: Stiga Arctic Wood cpen
FH: DHS Neo Hurricane 3 provincial
BH: Xiom Vega Europe

'training' setup
Blade: Yasaka Sweden Extra cpen
FH: Sanwei Target National
BH: Xiom Vega Pro (recently tried Barracuda which also works well)

For fun setup:
Blade: Xiom Seung Power Hinoki jpen
FH: 729 802 Mystery 3 short pips
BH (lol): grass dtecs ox long pips

My old faithful blade for almost two decades:
Blade: Butterfly Senkoh-1 jpen
FH: Sanwei Target National
BH: just chucked on a rubber for practice - Yinhe Galaxy 9000E soft

Ioiettino · May 12, 2019

I've had a few experiences with cpen recently, it's made me think quite a bit. The amount of sidespin and general variation one can get due to higher freedom of movement of the wrist is fantastic, and there is just something appealing about it all, for me. Actually I am thinking about practicing cpen as a way to get a broader perspective about what I can even do with a TT ball, even if it is just a way to complement my shakehand game. Not sure yet. Also, simply because it is great fun and makes you feel like Xu Xin... sort of. One issue I had is that I could produce some shots that felt of even better quality than I'd do shakehanded within minutes, and then fail miserably on the most basic things (rpb for example feels very natural to me, but simple trad blocking is so far very difficult). So, to be continued, but it's sure become a thrill. And it's so rare around here, the surprise factor could be another thing.
By the way, I tried it with a TSP Black Balsa 7.0 among other things, that was absolutely phenomenal. What a beast, and I thought I hated balsa (Victas V01 also had to do with it).

It's been a while I haven't been this excited about TT, and the bar is usually pretty high. Long live penhold!

Ammy9001 · May 16, 2019

fais said:
I'm having to relent more and more that shakehand has a significant advantage over penhold. The rise of FZD and his backhand oriented game is like the paper to XX rock forehand - he absolutely smothers him.

absolutely agree

OldschoolPenholder · May 24, 2019

Weds night heard from a friend that my first coach, Alex Tam, passed away Tuesday night. He was late 70's or early 80's.

We lost contact through the years but I addressed him as "sifu" and he called me student. I had 5 to 10 lessons with him at most. He asked his senior student Richard Ling to work with me and I got a lot of coaching/practice from/with Richard, sometimes with Alex Tam watching.

Back in the late 1970's to early 1980's I think Alex Tam was one of the top players in US. Tam sifu was an oldschool penholder playing single side short pips and was a double-winged attacker. As fearsome as his FH was, his BH was just as good. He was an alternate on the Chinese National Team iirc and desiring freedom from communism, he literally swam from China to Hong Kong. From HK, somehow he made his way to US, first Texas I think, and then NYC.

RIP Alex Tam

OldschoolPenholder · May 24, 2019

tt chats said:
Hi OldschoolPenholder,

Thank you Sir!

Yes, I'm in HK, but not only a club, the whole of HK, full of the Chinese, is less than that amount. That 's the tragedy!

Yes, Wong is the best and ranks well, but that's still not convincing enough. Many Chinese coaches here correct the kids' PH as a kind of mistake.

Are you Asian, as a PH, Sir?

I am Chinese and formerly a TPB PH but for the past year and still working at it, I converted to RPB. I am not that good and in my signature you can see some videos of me.

I have improved a bit and need to video some of my practice and matches.

SFF_lib · May 25, 2019

OldschoolPenholder said:
Weds night heard from a friend that my first coach, Alex Tam, passed away Tuesday night. He was late 70's or early 80's.

We lost contact through the years but I addressed him as "sifu" and he called me student. I had 5 to 10 lessons with him at most. He asked his senior student Richard Ling to work with me and I got a lot of coaching/practice from/with Richard, sometimes with Alex Tam watching.

Back in the late 1970's to early 1980's I think Alex Tam was one of the top players in US. Tam sifu was an oldschool penholder playing single side short pips and was a double-winged attacker. As fearsome as his FH was, his BH was just as good. He was an alternate on the Chinese National Team iirc and desiring freedom from communism, he literally swam from China to Hong Kong. From HK, somehow he made his way to US, first Texas I think, and then NYC.

RIP Alex Tam

I can imagine Tam Sifu must play like He Zhiwen!! A great loss for sure.

OldschoolPenholder · May 27, 2019

SFF_lib said:
I can imagine Tam Sifu must play like He Zhiwen!! A great loss for sure.

I may dare say Tam sifu > He Zhi Wen, although HZW has an advantage being a lefty against many players. I don't recall seeing HZW with a BH smash though, only his TPB block and punch

........

https://www.teamusa.org/USA-Table-T...Player-and-Coach-Alex-Tan-Zhuolin-passes-away

RIP Tam sifu

Cantonese = Tom Cheuk Lum
Taishanese = Hom Chek Lim

suds79 · May 28, 2019

I've recently discovered the power of the push. Particularly on service return. Don't get me wrong, I like to, and think it's important to attack serves when you can but overall I find I'm playing my best and having my best results in singles when I push service return about 80% of the time. It's important to attack at least some of the time to keep them honest.

But my whole point here is that I just don't want to give the opponent freebie points. The kind of where they serve and point over because you're trying to FZD it with a low % flip.

I've come to the conclusion that at this intermediate level, I'm willing to bank on, or live with the fact, that if they have a good, spiny serve, if I can keep my push low, that's a difficult ball to 3rd ball loop and I'll live with what happens if they can do it all match long. Furthermore, if they themselves feel their chances on 3rd ball are low and push back to you, then you get a chance to open up and you're essentially neutralized their serve which is a win.

Vs backspin? A push is easy & safe.
Vs no-spin? This one is difficult and you really need to spin the ball up with touch... or attack it.
Vs sidespin? See below on returning sidespin as I find these two very similar.
vs topspin? (I'm saying topspin but truth be told, most of the time vs serve, a topspin serve has some sort of side/top on it. It's rarely, if ever pure topspin) Here's the trick. IF, and I mean IF, you can manage to keep your push low, their topspin aided by your push and/or chop returns one super heavy spin ball to 3rd ball attack. You can basically say "good luck with this. If you can manage to somehow get that loop over the net, congrats you'll probably win."

Now every now & then you'll have a crummy push and it'll go high of which it doesn't matter how much spin is on the ball... You have to be willing to accept that every now & then you'll have a ball slammed down on your throat which feels bad but guess what. It's still only worth one point.

They don't get awarded multiple points for looking good on a shot.

If you're like me and feel that sometimes you're giving away too many easy points, try this out. Try a little more balanced play. Make them work for it. No easy points.

PS - I should note that I only take this approach vs opponents who I deem to have good, spiny serves. If their serves are not that spiny and easy, by all means attack away.

cem28 · Jun 5, 2019

New to the forum, so, let's start here

JPen, no RPB

alas26 · Jun 14, 2019

suds79 said:
I've recently discovered the power of the push. Particularly on service return. Don't get me wrong, I like to, and think it's important to attack serves when you can but overall I find I'm playing my best and having my best results in singles when I push service return about 80% of the time. It's important to attack at least some of the time to keep them honest.

But my whole point here is that I just don't want to give the opponent freebie points. The kind of where they serve and point over because you're trying to FZD it with a low % flip.

I've come to the conclusion that at this intermediate level, I'm willing to bank on, or live with the fact, that if they have a good, spiny serve, if I can keep my push low, that's a difficult ball to 3rd ball loop and I'll live with what happens if they can do it all match long. Furthermore, if they themselves feel their chances on 3rd ball are low and push back to you, then you get a chance to open up and you're essentially neutralized their serve which is a win.

Vs backspin? A push is easy & safe.

Vs no-spin? This one is difficult and you really need to spin the ball up with touch... or attack it.

Vs sidespin? See below on returning sidespin as I find these two very similar.

vs topspin? (I'm saying topspin but truth be told, most of the time vs serve, a topspin serve has some sort of side/top on it. It's rarely, if ever pure topspin) Here's the trick. IF, and I mean IF, you can manage to keep your push low, their topspin aided by your push and/or chop returns one super heavy spin ball to 3rd ball attack. You can basically say "good luck with this. If you can manage to somehow get that loop over the net, congrats you'll probably win."

Now every now & then you'll have a crummy push and it'll go high of which it doesn't matter how much spin is on the ball... You have to be willing to accept that every now & then you'll have a ball slammed down on your throat which feels bad but guess what. It's still only worth one point. They don't get awarded multiple points for looking good on a shot.

If you're like me and feel that sometimes you're giving away too many easy points, try this out. Try a little more balanced play. Make them work for it. No easy points.

PS - I should note that I only take this approach vs opponents who I deem to have good, spiny serves. If their serves are not that spiny and easy, by all means attack away.

I recently changed my set up to something slower (Nittaku Acoustic with H3/R7 to Yasaka Sweden Classic with H3/G1) and the backhand felt a bit different (had to adjust my grip a bit due to skinnier handle and somewhat different characteristics on the BH throw/spin) which made me lose confidence in my backhand. This meant that I opened less on the BH side (Banana flicks) on short serves and pushes, and opted to pushing more. (BH flicks were my bread and butter with my acoustic set up.)

Now reflecting on my game after a few weeks, I think it’s actually improved my game tremendously. My rallies last longer, I’m more calm and I feel like I have more time to react and play strategically (and actually plan set up those winning kills). I know that the slower equipment is definitely part of that equation, but relying and sort of having that “ah ha” moment of rediscovering the push was pretty eye opening.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

SFF_lib · Jun 14, 2019

alas26 said:
I recently changed my set up to something slower (Nittaku Acoustic with H3/R7 to Yasaka Sweden Classic with H3/G1) and the backhand felt a bit different (had to adjust my grip a bit due to skinnier handle and somewhat different characteristics on the BH throw/spin) which made me lose confidence in my backhand. This meant that I opened less on the BH side (Banana flicks) on short serves and pushes, and opted to pushing more. (BH flicks were my bread and butter with my acoustic set up.)

Now reflecting on my game after a few weeks, I think it’s actually improved my game tremendously. My rallies last longer, I’m more calm and I feel like I have more time to react and play strategically (and actually plan set up those winning kills). I know that the slower equipment is definitely part of that equation, but relying and sort of having that “ah ha” moment of rediscovering the push was pretty eye opening.

Sent from my using Tapatalk

These days it is all about rally right? As long as you can put the ball on the table, you win.

suds79 · Jun 14, 2019

SFF_lib said:
These days it is all about rally right? As long as you can put the ball on the table, you win.

Agreed. By and large opponents that give me trouble typically are killing me on serve possibly setting up easy 3rd balls.

So generally i think "just neutralize" on their serve. Whether I'm giving back topspin or backspin to them, so long as it's not a very easy ball then I like my chances. Just neutralize on their serve and count on winning some points set up on my serve.

tt chats · Jun 19, 2019

OldschoolPenholder said:
I am Chinese and formerly a TPB PH but for the past year and still working at it, I converted to RPB. I am not that good and in my signature you can see some videos of me.

I have improved a bit and need to video some of my practice and matches.

Yes, I guessed so. Westerners seldom use penhold grip. Penhold is fading out even among the Chinese.

OldschoolPenholder · Jul 28, 2019

Hello PHers!

UPDATE ON ME:

SHORT SUMMARY:

I have improved a lot, have been playing 4x a week for 6 months if not more.

LONG POST:

I have not posted in some time of my progress. Have not video'd my matches. Playing mostly matches but occassionally am able to only practice/train. Sometimes I am fortunate to play vs 2 2000 players (lose easily). But I mostly play vs 1700-1900 players. Some are as ttmonster calls "boom boom" players - players who have a faster paced game. But as my club is a Dept of Parks Recreation Center with Senior membership fees of $25/yr (!!!), we have many senior players (62+yrs old).

I have 2 regular partners I play with. One is 65 yrs old and plays steady and will attack occasionally. I have lost to him 50 or 60 times and won 6 times. I may exaggerate the numbers of his wins, but vs him I have only won 6x. I am not looking to beat him per se. I am looking to improve my gameplay and techniques. Trying to anticipate the balls instead of reacting to them.

I took about 6 months playing SH to learn and groove the SH BH as a precursor to playing PH RPB. I think the time I invested in my SH BH has helped tremendously my RPB flat hit. Then I spent maybe 8 or 9 months playing RPB and trying to ignore my TPB oldschool PH instincts.

There seems to be 2 schools of thought for RPB:

1. Use RPB to spin.
2. Use RPB to block, punch, flat hit, smash, and spin.

I opted to work on my RPB foundation/basics and took the 2nd approach. Lately I am a little more consistent during gameplay, ball doesn't hit my fingers as much as before, so now I am working on spinning more.

Vs the 65 yr old steady player, I FORCED my RPB loops. Also I 'lost' my FH loop during the past year or so as I neglected it and concentrated soley on RPB. Lucky in the past 5 months or so, I have 'gotten' my FH loop back. I AM NOT A LOOPER. I am not steady. If I get my first over, it is usually to set up smashing, one of my strengths. However, vs this partner, I have tried to become a better looper and force myself to loop more be it FH or RPB. i have missed many and lost many matches. Again, I do not care about winning or losing. It is about changing my style from smashing to be well-rounded and loop more as well as trying to rally longer into the point instead of smashing. Easily one of my strengths is smashing. Fortunate to have learned from Alex Tam when I was a kid. Also very fortunate when I was younger that Rey Domingo, a 2400 looper/lobber worked with me. He kept lobbing and I kept smashing. But I do not want to continue with my strengths, I want to strengthen my weaknesses and improve. Hence my losing of matches but forcing myself to loop way more, out of my comfort zone. I would 2nd ball or 3rd ball loop whereas i generally would push and set up a 4th ball or later loop instead of 2nd/3rd ball loops.

I have another regular partner I play. He is 70 yrs old and has conservative serves, excellent FH and BH smashes and good FH loop. Plays JPen. With him as well as the 65 yr old, i have learned to relax more, and not rush my shots. I have beaten this 70 yr old 2x now, both 3-0, but close games. Although I have lost to him 15x or more.

2 other regular partners I play - a late 30's young man who is a boom boom player as ttmonster calls them LOL. SH double-winged looper. About 1900. I have only beaten him once at 3-2, but despite losses, I am rallying deeper into the point and scores are closer now. This shows my my RPB blocks and punches are working as well as periodically surprising him with a RPB loop. I have lost to him 15+ times also.

The 4th regular partner is a SH with LP on his BH, doesn't twiddle. Sometimes he plays defensive letting his LP psyche me out, sometimes he will FH loop with a wicked fast sidespin loop. Have lost to him 15+ times also, won only 1x at 3-2. But lately my losses are closer in scores and my FH loops and RPB smashes and punches are succesful.

I lost track ... have been going to the club 4 nights a week for 6 months now? 2-3 hrs a night, although gameplay may be 1 hr to 90 mins, rarely 2 hrs, part of time is waiting for next.

Have improved tremendously. In the past during practice I'm 100 to 200 pts better than my gameplay. Now, perhaps my gameplay has improved and my overall level may have improved from 1500/1600 to 1700/1800. Not a consistent 1800 though. IIRC Der_Echte estimated my gameplay at 1700 when i played him as an oldschool PH with no RPB.

This Sunday, 42andbackpains will go a friend's house in NJ to play vs some of our old 1980's TT crew. We are mostly in our 50's and playing for fun and bragging rights LOL. 42andbackpains is recovering from injuries so he won't be playing as much. When healthy, he was probably the best of us and he continously played and received regular coaching lessons through the years. Will video my matches and post for DTT CCers to laugh at me

I felt I improved quite a bit, so when and if I ever meet ttmonster and/or JeffM, I will request 8 points instead of 9 ;-)

Very truly yours in TT,

~OSPH

p.s. As i have in the past, i will continue to thank NextLevel re: nospin serves! It has helped my gameplay vs my 4 regular partners. BUT SURPRISINGLY I played a young 2000+ lady and an older gentleman who is also 2000, and my nospin serves have helped me win freebie points! Totally amazed at it. perhaps they do not know about nospin serves or perhaps I have a deceptive serve motion and show them heavy sidetop and sidedown and then later give them the good old nospin serve.

THANK YOU NEXTLEVEL!

p.p.s. Solely on @suds79 recommendation, i bought the Gambler Fire Touch and will try it out. My current primary blade, Butterfly Taksim, carbon blade, with Donic Bluefire on FH lacks 'touch'. Perhaps it is the blade or the rubber or the chunky handle. Bought the Gambler due to suds' recommendation and description mentioning it has touch as well as a thinner handle. I don't like chunky/fat handles.

OldschoolPenholder · Jul 28, 2019

suds79 said:
I've recently discovered the power of the push. Particularly on service return. Don't get me wrong, I like to, and think it's important to attack serves when you can but overall I find I'm playing my best and having my best results in singles when I push service return about 80% of the time. It's important to attack at least some of the time to keep them honest.

But my whole point here is that I just don't want to give the opponent freebie points. The kind of where they serve and point over because you're trying to FZD it with a low % flip.

I've come to the conclusion that at this intermediate level, I'm willing to bank on, or live with the fact, that if they have a good, spiny serve, if I can keep my push low, that's a difficult ball to 3rd ball loop and I'll live with what happens if they can do it all match long. Furthermore, if they themselves feel their chances on 3rd ball are low and push back to you, then you get a chance to open up and you're essentially neutralized their serve which is a win.

Vs backspin? A push is easy & safe.

Vs no-spin? This one is difficult and you really need to spin the ball up with touch... or attack it.

Vs sidespin? See below on returning sidespin as I find these two very similar.

vs topspin? (I'm saying topspin but truth be told, most of the time vs serve, a topspin serve has some sort of side/top on it. It's rarely, if ever pure topspin) Here's the trick. IF, and I mean IF, you can manage to keep your push low, their topspin aided by your push and/or chop returns one super heavy spin ball to 3rd ball attack. You can basically say "good luck with this. If you can manage to somehow get that loop over the net, congrats you'll probably win."

Now every now & then you'll have a crummy push and it'll go high of which it doesn't matter how much spin is on the ball... You have to be willing to accept that every now & then you'll have a ball slammed down on your throat which feels bad but guess what. It's still only worth one point. They don't get awarded multiple points for looking good on a shot.

If you're like me and feel that sometimes you're giving away too many easy points, try this out. Try a little more balanced play. Make them work for it. No easy points.

PS - I should note that I only take this approach vs opponents who I deem to have good, spiny serves. If their serves are not that spiny and easy, by all means attack away.

For over a year, as I played matches, I did NOT push as I was forcing myself to acclimate to either 2nd or 3rd loop either FH or RPB looping. I lost many a point, but my looping is a little better as I invested time in learning to loop in gameplay. I could do it in practice but couldn't in gameplay so instead of shying away from it, i kept doing it 100% of the time. I lost many matches but feel I have improved my looping.

lately i have started pushing again in gameplay. vs 2 partners who have conservative serves, i don't push just to push. i angle push and/or float/touch it back to set up a 4th ball loop or 4th ball push to set up a 6th ball. also sometimes i push on 3rd ball to set up a 5th ball attack.

again, i don't push just to push. i do my best to push to set up a followup attack. angle pushing and/or touch/float it back to where they are not.

also i don't always push with heavy downspin, sometimes i add sidespin to my pushes which sets up an angle slightly different than an angle push. angle pushes seem unexpected from my partners whereas sidespin pushes they see i'm imparting sidespin.

not sure if my post makes sense lol

Ren22 · Aug 1, 2019

Hey guys I'm pretty new to the forum, I've been reading this thread for a few days, getting to know all of my fellow penholders.
Just wanted to introduce myself a bit...
I started playing TT about 2 years and a half ago at my high school, we don't have a team or anything, just the tables and students enthusiastic enough to play every now and then. I quickly became way more passionate about it than my peers and would say that I have improved pretty well to my ability, without coaches and all.
I started off as a SH but found it comfortable to play PH since I'm pretty FH oriented and LOVE to serve (It's and art!!), something enhanced by the GRIP. So I changed to PH and have loved it so much. As a SH I was using Stiga Offensive Wood NCT with H3 NEO on the FH with Rozena on the BH (hated the feel of Rozena so much), but I decided to go to something slower to be able to learn my technique correctly so I was using Yasaka Sweden Extra with H3 NEO and MARK V to learn RPB (something I'm still working on) until about a month ago. Felt like my setup was bottoming out so I'm back to my STIGA OFF NCT, seems like a very natutal transition.
I'm an offensive looper, usually stay close to mid distance. I favor my FH very much and I'm always looking to get it into play, usually too much for my opponent. These last 6 months I've emphasized my tactics and try to keep a journal with all of my ideas. I'm working on my RPB, I can sometimes get it into play pretty well, it's pretty aggresive and I actually love to use it, but not anything to write home about. I love the touch play and pushing to setup my game, I try to be creative with the touch~
Don't know any other PH player...
I know I pretty late to be able to become some kind of pro, but I love TT and want to become as good as I can. Looking into going to my first club, since there aren't any in my city it's kind of complicated but very much looking forward to the experience. If I learn anything new and interesting I'll try to keep you guys informed~

SFF_lib · Aug 2, 2019

Ren22 said:
Hey guys I'm pretty new to the forum, I've been reading this thread for a few days, getting to know all of my fellow penholders.
Just wanted to introduce myself a bit...
I started playing TT about 2 years and a half ago at my high school, we don't have a team or anything, just the tables and students enthusiastic enough to play every now and then. I quickly became way more passionate about it than my peers and would say that I have improved pretty well to my ability, without coaches and all.
I started off as a SH but found it comfortable to play PH since I'm pretty FH oriented and LOVE to serve (It's and art!!), something enhanced by the GRIP. So I changed to PH and have loved it so much. As a SH I was using Stiga Offensive Wood NCT with H3 NEO on the FH with Rozena on the BH (hated the feel of Rozena so much), but I decided to go to something slower to be able to learn my technique correctly so I was using Yasaka Sweden Extra with H3 NEO and MARK V to learn RPB (something I'm still working on) until about a month ago. Felt like my setup was bottoming out so I'm back to my STIGA OFF NCT, seems like a very natutal transition.
I'm an offensive looper, usually stay close to mid distance. I favor my FH very much and I'm always looking to get it into play, usually too much for my opponent. These last 6 months I've emphasized my tactics and try to keep a journal with all of my ideas. I'm working on my RPB, I can sometimes get it into play pretty well, it's pretty aggresive and I actually love to use it, but not anything to write home about. I love the touch play and pushing to setup my game, I try to be creative with the touch~
Don't know any other PH player...
I know I pretty late to be able to become some kind of pro, but I love TT and want to become as good as I can. Looking into going to my first club, since there aren't any in my city it's kind of complicated but very much looking forward to the experience. If I learn anything new and interesting I'll try to keep you guys informed~

Welcome to the group.

It's never too late to start. If you put in the effort and time you will improve quickly. It might not be a valid comparison. Wong Chun Ting from Hong Kong didn't start professional training until the age of 18. He is now the second best penholder after Xu Xin.

Sent from my PAR-LX9 using Tapatalk

Ren22 · Aug 3, 2019

Thanks for the welcome~
Wow, I didn't know that, that's pretty inspiring to be honest, thanks!!
Lately I've been paying more attention to Wong Chun Ting, he's had some pretty good games imo. I found myself rooting for him at T2 pretty often. Xu Xin being back to #1, these guys give me hopes for the future of penhold, hope they inspire a healthy and innovative penhold generation.

alas26 · Aug 7, 2019

So, maybe I’m backwards- but I learned RPB first, and now I’m just starting to dabble with traditional backhands. I find it actually quite fun, especially for surprising quick blocks or chops with tons of spin.

It’s a nice addition if I can get the hang of it!

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Just curious how many Penholders are on TTD?

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