Just curious how many Penholders are on TTD?

OldschoolPenholder said:

PUSHING QUESTION FOR RPBers

Do you push with your FH side of the racket or do you push with your RPB side?

I had an OK pushing game with my TPB grip so I pushed with the FH side.

I have been experimenting with a few grips in trying to facilitate my RPB. I have settled on a grip a few months ago, which was extended fingers and spread out. I kept getting hit on my fingers. I have now curled my fingers like my TPB grip a little. I can do RPB shots.

What I cannot seem to do is push now! At least when i use my FH side to push. I have started trying to push with my RPB side. Feels and looks awkward but is better somewhat.

Just curious if other RPBers push with their RPB side?

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I find that I have better control with pushing from the forehand side. If I do use the RPB side to push, that is usually when I was aiming to do a banana but realized the ball is too low or i was too late, then I quickly try save a point by pushing with RPB.

Sometimes it shows good result, like the point attached.

OldschoolPenholder said:

PUSHING QUESTION FOR RPBers

Do you push with your FH side of the racket or do you push with your RPB side?

I had an OK pushing game with my TPB grip so I pushed with the FH side.

I have been experimenting with a few grips in trying to facilitate my RPB. I have settled on a grip a few months ago, which was extended fingers and spread out. I kept getting hit on my fingers. I have now curled my fingers like my TPB grip a little. I can do RPB shots.

What I cannot seem to do is push now! At least when i use my FH side to push. I have started trying to push with my RPB side. Feels and looks awkward but is better somewhat.

Just curious if other RPBers push with their RPB side?

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I've at times thought to try to push with the RPB side to encourage and train me to use RPB on a significantly higher % of shots. This why if I want to attack or push and play more passive, RPB. But whenever I try it, I can do it okay but it feels a bit awkward and I feel I have better touch on my FH side push as that's what I have done my whole life.

BTW, I'm teaching my 8 year old daughter penhold and she's doing exlcusively RPB. When she gets older, I'll have her push RPB also.

Anyways, ever since I've embraced my inner Ma Lin philosophy to where i tell myself "it's okay to still use TPB whenever I want" and considering i'm much better at blocking with TPB, I just push with the FH side also saving the RPB primarily for when I want to attack.

I figure if Xu Xin who uses TPB 95% of the time but pushes still with his FH side, it's okay for me too. The only real good penholder that I know of that pushes a pretty high % of shots with his RPB side is Chen Bo Wen.

I guess I'd just try to find some of his matches to watch. Here's part 1 of a final he was in

So why not just try a traditional grip? Fingers together, ever so slightly curled.

Sounds like you've done a 3 fingers extended flat grip. Yes I agree that'd take up too much real-estate. Also sounds like you've tried the fully curled approach. I made a video as proponent of this grip but think it's best if you twiddle. IMO you lose feeling & power not having your fingers on the backside of the paddle and thus have gone back to a traditional grip.

IMO it doesn't get any better than this (see picture). Yes you'll still have the ball hit your finger from time to time but I feel I'm doing it less & less so it just must be a practice thing. IDK.

You guys might know better .. but as a shakehand player .. I don't feel it makes any sense to do push with the RPB side .. ...
... it will only make the quality of the push lower ..

The Subtle Key Technique Adjustments of the TPB

Over the last few weeks, my TPB block vs power loops or heavy spin confidence has improved tremendously as well as my consistency. I do use the RPB but that is saved mostly for slower balls I want to loop. With my upbringing & comfort level, I much prefer pure blocking on the BH with TPB.

One thing that has always plagued me was frustration in reading a ball, seeing that it's faster & spinnier and still blocking it long. Granted this will happen from time to time but I've seen other old time TPBers handle these balls better and far more consistent. Then by pure chance in watching an old RSM instructional video by chance, I noticed key technique adjustment that has changed everything on making that block easier. Watch closely to what RSM is doing.


The head of the blade should be pointing up. Almost at a 45 deg angle.

This is hard to explain in text so I'll encourage you to take your paddle in your hand and try this exercise.

First hold the bat like this (note: this is how I use to block which is incorrect and actually taken form a video of mine)


Try to close the bat as much as you can. Even with your thumb slid outward (don't think in the picture here I am) it's hard to twist your wrist much more isn't it? This is a major problem vs heavy spin.

Now use this grip with the head up vs more parallel to the ground as I showed above.



With the head more facing upward, you can now more easily simply bend your wrist back. It would be like in the "extension" diagram pictured here.


Where before when the paddle is parallel to the ground you have to twist your wrist. With the head up, all you have to do is bind your wrist back more. An easier movement to do.

That closes the angle more easily. Blocking power loops & heavy spin made easy. Sure you might still miss one every now & then. But at least it won't be anymore because you physically can't close the face of the blade in time.

Hope this helps any of you as much as it has me.

Can't you adjust grip pressure on the fingers on the back to keep the push lower ?

OldschoolPenholder said:

With my current grip, my pushing with FH side pops ball up. Perhaps the grip is hampering my blade angle when pushing which pops the ball up.

I probably will change grips soon. LOL

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Played after almost a year (after the knee surgery and other complications). Quickly realised that I have lost my rpb topspin. Switched to Ma Lin's style of tpb pushes and rpb blocks (more punch blocks than blocks) to counter my opponents's topspin. Foreha d seems fine. Might need to change the rpb rubber as well. Good thing was that reached about 50-60% of my pre-surgery footwork on the first day.

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There is too much nonsense here.
I think that some of the c-pen players have been too defensive.

I am really a shake hands player but I like to play c-pen once in a while. I don't find it that much different from shake hands. Over all they are the same. There is no force or impulse that one can apply with shake hands that can't be applied with c-pen. The same shot can be achieve with either.

When I play c-pen, I am not afraid to push with my RPB but usually I will try to loop back spin serve. My practice partner will also push with his RPB. His RPB pushes have much more back spin than is FH or TBh pushes. When forced, I will chop with my RPB. I see no problem why someone shouldn't push using RPB. Again, what force or impulse can be generated with c-pen or shake hands that the other can not do the same?

There are other things that are much more important than whether you play c-pen or shake hands. Foot work is a major factor and so is shot selection. I play c-pen about once a month for the heck of it because I like the variation. I am using a Yasaka Extra Offensive with Rakza 7 soft max on my FH and LKT Pro Xt on my BH. My practice partner has a Taksim with donic rubbers on the FH and BH.

https://bit.ly/2AWR2Q3

I could pass as a c-pen player.. Yes I screw up from time to time because I don't have the muscle memory for c-pen.

I don't understand why this thread exists It is like are there any left handed TT players. c-pen or shake hands are just different ways of holding the paddle. It is really just a preference. I would like someone to refute my statement that both methods can apply a the same force or impulse.
I don't see where one way of holding the paddle is better than the other.

One more thing. As a shake hands player, I found play RPB to be very natural. In fact I encourage my practice partner in the video to play RPB. My practice partner grew up play TBH only. You can see in the video I play much more RPB than he does.

I don't understand why this thread exists It is like are there any left handed TT players. c-pen or shake hands are just different ways of holding the paddle. It is really just a preference. I would like someone to refute my statement that both methods can apply a the same force or impulse. I don't see where one way of holding the paddle is better than the other.

I would refute the statement 14 times a week and twice on Sunday or any day. Grip is a huge factor. Effective or ineffective grip for the shot can make a huge difference. It is way more difficult to use a C-pen grip on a ball short to net BH side than shakehand. With a certain wrist injury in the right or wrong place, C-Pen RPB BH might be the only way to play.. and play damned good.

One more thing. As a shake hands player, I found play RPB to be very natural. In fact I encourage my practice partner in the video to play RPB. My practice partner grew up play TBH only. You can see in the video I play much more RPB than he does.
I know of players who had a weak wrist and practiced C-Pen RPB soft BH flicks and found it so easy and natural while they were re-habbing injury... that they stuck with C-Pen RPB grip and were well over 2000 USATT level doing it.

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I added comments in BOLD

Der_Echte said:

I would refute the statement 14 times a week and twice on Sunday or any day. Grip is a huge factor.

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I don't see how you can refute what I said. Saying so doesn't make it so. Yes, we have all seen screwy grips but I am talking about normal c-pen grip vs normal shake hands grip. How is grip make a huge factor?The ball doesn't care what grip is being used. The ball only responds to an impulse.

Der_Echte said:

It is way more difficult to use a C-pen grip on a ball short to net BH side than shakehand.

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Well perhaps the fact I can almost reach the net without bumping the table provides me with a different viewpoint.
I agree that TPB is awkward when the ball lands wide on the BH side and requires more foot work to make it work. That is why I use RPB. In the video, there are too many shots wide to my BH that would be difficult to hit well with TPB without much more footwork but the RPB works well. I use the TPB for covering the pocket area and shot where I just need to block.

How is grip make a huge factor?The ball doesn't care what grip is being used. The ball only responds to an impulse.

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Give a man enough rope to hand hisself and you save the expense of a trial and incarceration.

Give a man a fish, and he is not hungry for one meal and saved some money.

Make a man into a Table Tennis Equipment Junkie, and he will be broke and feed D-Top Spirit some more fodder for his next parody video.

... for real though... the grip is a huge factor in the outcome of a shot and it never gets enough discussion.

I see where you are coming from in that a player can play effectively with C-Pen, J-Pen, Pistol, and Shakehand grips playing pretty much the same shots with some inherent advantages or things that make it a little harder. I get that. I was grinding it in about the actual kind of grip at impact. That has such a huge effect on the ball. Both the kind of grip within a TYPE of grip and your grip pressure (with changes) allow a player to do so much variation.

The kind of grip pressure one uses at and during impact are akin to an invisible force. Opponents never can see it or read it... until it is too late... even then some internet keyboard warriors still don't get it... all the while the one applying the invisible force of grip pressure variation be laughing all the way to the bank like Muttley.

Sigh. Where to start.

Something I agree with:
- With the advent of the RPB, does that bring the style more closely related to shakehand? Sure. Does it for you not seem that great of a difference? I suppose not. Take that and run with it. Be happy about it.

But after seeing the video, your play and the level of your competition and the fact that you're a self admittedly a shakehand player who dabbled in Cpen? (a recipe that might be fun which is great but I'd argue probably doesn't do you any favors in really mastering any one skill) Honestly I just don't think you're in a position to be an expert on the matter. I'm really not trying to be too harsh there. I was trying to find a polite way as possible to put that and it's just hard to do.

Sure a thread on footwork probably would be useful. There have been others or you could create one and see how many posts it gets in it. I hope a lot. But to come out with what I've seen and state there's a lot of nonsense here and you don't see the purpose of this thread. A thread with 979 posts in it. I guess we've all been greatly wasting our time over something that's not all that unique to shakehand. I guess everyone has a right to an opinion.

For the record i'm all for theory crafting and bouncing ideas off one another. Even challenging long standing notions if one likes. But to come across as somewhat aggressive saying "there's a lot of nonsense here" and here's how it really is just seemed a little unnecessary & arrogant to me.

There have been others or you could create one and see how many posts it gets in it.

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haha, I posted a thread last night from a Korean lady who plays maybe 3 levels above me (she plays Div 1 National in Korean amateur tourneys) about the BH flick... with full English subtitles (that I did not do, someone did the subtitles for her)…

And that thread has zero comments and is deader than a door nail.

If you look at the first 25 threads from top to bottom currently active, you will see 60%ish of them to be about equipment... with tons of participation. MyTT is an even higher ration.

I purposely comment on the kind of stuff you (suds) value and agree. I try to start threads that discuss the why and how of concepts. I try to start trouble about grip pressure, which seems to be more embarrassing for TTers to discuss than large white zits on their tallywhacker.

I like your willingness to go where many TTers seem to be scared to go.