Just curious how many Penholders are on TTD?

suds79 · Nov 30, 2017

confiscate said:
There is a penhold player at my club (Swan TT in sunnyvale, CA), Tao Wenzhang, who also coaches. He's the real deal (2700), and regularly wins opens. There are 3 other shakehand 2700 coaches as well at the same club. I am sure none of them would tell you to switch from penhold to shakehand--that's just stupid.

at there's a coach named Tao Wenzhang. Man you're lucky... Yes I'm quite familiar with him. Your coach is basically the best penholder in the US as far as I know. Either him or Yujin. That's like saying "we have this coach named Ma Long who coaches at our club"

(just kidding) maybe not to that level but yeah I know who he is. Sounds like you go to a really good club. Congrats.

Training Update
(even though I jump subjects a lot, going to try to cut down on multiple posts in a row)

So the last few weeks have been kinda a bummer for me. While I felt I was playing at an okay level, match after match I feel like the book is out to pick on my weak service return game... Namely, my BH side.

You can see my match here with USATT 2071 Daniel where that's the main takeaway from the match. Poor service return.

Furthermore, there are at least 5 times in that match where I try to over the table RPB flick unsuccessfully. Now I can do this vs what I call poor servers or easy balls. But vs quality servers? Not really. And to add on top of that, no matter how much I try, I still feel more comfortable TPB.

So in an attempt to simply cut out a weakness, I pulled my inverted form my BH side and went back to Long Pips. I use to twiddle. But then I would play too passively. So today I told myself to NOT twiddle. If it comes to my FH, I loop like I always do. But if it comes to my BH, I have options. I can either still punch or attack the serve with the TPB or if I feel uneasy with it at all, I RPB chop with the LPs. Boy did that do wonders for my game today. Suddenly my training partner, who has a good BH serve, was struggling to get as many points off errors or easy 3rd ball attacks. On top of that, with removing the indecisiveness on attacking balls "TPB or RPB?", the solution was clear. If I'm attacking, I'm TPB.

If someone serves to my BH and I decide to chop with the LPs and they 3rd ball attack? Fine. Sure that could happen. (even though I don't have to receive that ball with the LPs. I could inverted TPB) But I want to at least make someone work for it. No more giving away the point directly off of service receive.

Had some success here & there with that TPB flick more powerful shot from time to time also I posted above about earlier.

OldschoolPenholder · Nov 30, 2017

suds79 said:
So in an attempt to simply cut out a weakness, I pulled my inverted form my BH side and went back to Long Pips. I use to twiddle. But then I would play too passively. So today I told myself to NOT twiddle. If it comes to my FH, I loop like I always do. But if it comes to my BH, I have options. I can either still punch or attack the serve with the TPB or if I feel uneasy with it at all, I RPB chop with the LPs. Boy did that do wonders for my game today. Suddenly my training partner, who has a good BH serve, was struggling to get as many points off errors or easy 3rd ball attacks. On top of that, with removing the indecisiveness on attacking balls "TPB or RPB?", the solution was clear. If I'm attacking, I'm TPB.

If someone serves to my BH and I decide to chop with the LPs and they 3rd ball attack? Fine. Sure that could happen. (even though I don't have to receive that ball with the LPs. I could inverted TPB) But I want to at least make someone work for it. No more giving away the point directly off of service receive.

Had some success here & there with that TPB flick more powerful shot from time to time also I posted above about earlier.

Very cool!

Although i get that indecision at times, I'm lucky that my RPB is not consistent yet so I'm still training it. If that made any sense LOL

Lermanator · Nov 30, 2017

Tao is much better than Yijun ever was. Do you have an idea why tao and bob left ICC?

decoy · Dec 3, 2017

confiscate said:
Ya an old "coach" at my club said the same thing. "You HAVE to switch to shakehand. End of story".
I watched him play and he sucks ball. It's not just that he is old and can't move fast, it's his strokes, are completely wrong. Like his backhand shakehand serves, is not affected by age because it's just a serve, but his motion is different from any TT player--he draws a straight line, while everyone draws a big circle. It's like 100% different and obvious to anyone watching him serve, even to folks that don't play TT.

Still, because he has a lot of multiball equipment, a lot of newbies pay him $60/hr to "learn".

When I point out it would be great advertising for him to have a student do well with penhold and win at tournaments, he said "well requires the student have talent".
Right. So to summarize, if you take lessons from him, you HAVE to switch to shakehand, pay him $60/hr, and if you don't improve after paying him for lots of lessons that is because you lack talent. LOL sounds bullshit to me. All the burden and risk of switching is on you, the $ cost is on you, but if after switching things don't go well he has 0 accountability. "Your game got worse after you switch to shakehand? Good luck that's your problem. Maybe you don't have talent. I still keep the $ though. LOL"

Don't switch. If your coach is good, he/she will teach you based on your style. If you are long pips, short pips, chopper--a knowledgeable coach understands how they work, and you will see improvement. A crappy coach tells you to switch to shakehand inverted both sides, because if you don't, they don't have enough depth to be able to "teach" you anything--they will just end up standing there the whole hour not saying anything, and looking dumb.

60 dollars an hour. you sir are being ripped my friend..
we have a coach here by the name of Bai He used to be top 120 WR or something rather. doesnt even charge that much https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BWesTxfAKfk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z1qXLEcY8HE

decoy · Dec 3, 2017

suds79 said:
Furthermore, there are at least 5 times in that match where I try to over the table RPB flick unsuccessfully. Now I can do this vs what I call poor servers or easy balls. But vs quality servers? Not really. And to add on top of that, no matter how much I try, I still feel more comfortable TPB.

So in an attempt to simply cut out a weakness, I pulled my inverted form my BH side and went back to Long Pips. I use to twiddle. But then I would play too passively. So today I told myself to NOT twiddle. If it comes to my FH, I loop like I always do. But if it comes to my BH, I have options. I can either still punch or attack the serve with the TPB or if I feel uneasy with it at all, I RPB chop with the LPs. Boy did that do wonders for my game today. Suddenly my training partner, who has a good BH serve, was struggling to get as many points off errors or easy 3rd ball attacks. On top of that, with removing the indecisiveness on attacking balls "TPB or RPB?", the solution was clear. If I'm attacking, I'm TPB.

Judging by the video. your issue with rpb is getting into position, you tend to drag yourself to where you want to be
If your finger position on the back hand side is the the same when you execute rpb as it is a Fh stroke. you are going to end up hurting your wrist.

parkash.imangry · Dec 3, 2017

Hey guys, please suggest a rubber for my rpb backhand. I had a good time with both with Android Rasant and Xiom Vega Asia (loved this one) in the past...have moved to China and would like to use a local rubber on my bh, any suggestions?

Sent from my Redmi Note 3 using Tapatalk

OldschoolPenholder · Dec 3, 2017

The going rate in nyc is $60/hr and $30/30 mins

decoy · Dec 3, 2017

owch.. how much are club memberships?.

slight correction bai he was top 60 at some point OuO

people do 30 min sessions. kinda redundant ?

decoy · Dec 3, 2017

parkash.imangry said:
Hey guys, please suggest a rubber for my rpb backhand. I had a good time with both with Android Rasant and Xiom Vega Asia (loved this one) in the past...have moved to China and would like to use a local rubber on my bh, any suggestions?

Sent from my Redmi Note 3 using Tapatalk

stick to vega asia if you already liked it. but if you want to try something else. Acuda S1 turbo / vega japan

parkash.imangry · Dec 5, 2017

decoy said:
stick to vega asia if you already liked it. but if you want to try something else. Acuda S1 turbo / vega japan

I was actually thinking of moving to a tacky rubber on BH as well...to get more spin on the new poly 40+ balls

Sent from my Redmi Note 3 using Tapatalk

PierreAd · Dec 5, 2017

decoy said:
owch.. how much are club memberships?.

slight correction bai he was top 60 at some point OuO

people do 30 min sessions. kinda redundant ?

Funny... is it the same Bai He that's now playing for French Pro A team "Loire Nord TT" ? It's just 30km from where I live, I didn't have a change to go and see them play this year, but he seems to be the same player.

@suds79 : do you have unusually large hands / a very small racquet head? Because it seems to me that you have a very locked and... how do I put this... "deep" way of holding your bat? It looks like you lose a lot of time when trying to TPB because of this, going from a very deep grip with fingers going very far on the racquet, to a more classical position of the hand for your TPB. Or maybe it's the fact that your 3 back fingers are sprayed on the back of the racket and not grouped one against another as they are seen most of the time. At least, there's something that seems pretty unsual to me in your grip, and it might be hurting your ability to switch rapidly from FH to BH, and make you lose some flexibility (which hurts the RPB, I guess, but also TPB over the table when you need to use backspin). I just started penhold 1.5 yr ago but that's the main thing I notice when I see you play. By the way, thanks for the video, it's nice to see other penholders play

songdavid98 · Dec 5, 2017

suds79 said:
at there's a coach named Tao Wenzhang. Man you're lucky... Yes I'm quite familiar with him. Your coach is basically the best penholder in the US as far as I know. Either him or Yujin. That's like saying "we have this coach named Ma Long who coaches at our club" (just kidding) maybe not to that level but yeah I know who he is. Sounds like you go to a really good club. Congrats.

Training Update
(even though I jump subjects a lot, going to try to cut down on multiple posts in a row)

So the last few weeks have been kinda a bummer for me. While I felt I was playing at an okay level, match after match I feel like the book is out to pick on my weak service return game... Namely, my BH side.

You can see my match here with USATT 2071 Daniel where that's the main takeaway from the match. Poor service return.

Furthermore, there are at least 5 times in that match where I try to over the table RPB flick unsuccessfully. Now I can do this vs what I call poor servers or easy balls. But vs quality servers? Not really. And to add on top of that, no matter how much I try, I still feel more comfortable TPB.

So in an attempt to simply cut out a weakness, I pulled my inverted form my BH side and went back to Long Pips. I use to twiddle. But then I would play too passively. So today I told myself to NOT twiddle. If it comes to my FH, I loop like I always do. But if it comes to my BH, I have options. I can either still punch or attack the serve with the TPB or if I feel uneasy with it at all, I RPB chop with the LPs. Boy did that do wonders for my game today. Suddenly my training partner, who has a good BH serve, was struggling to get as many points off errors or easy 3rd ball attacks. On top of that, with removing the indecisiveness on attacking balls "TPB or RPB?", the solution was clear. If I'm attacking, I'm TPB.

If someone serves to my BH and I decide to chop with the LPs and they 3rd ball attack? Fine. Sure that could happen. (even though I don't have to receive that ball with the LPs. I could inverted TPB) But I want to at least make someone work for it. No more giving away the point directly off of service receive.

Had some success here & there with that TPB flick more powerful shot from time to time also I posted above about earlier.

So you are Steve, the lefty penholder? I have found another one of my kind.

Judging from the video, the most glaringly obvious weakpoint of yours is that you aren't so great at reading serves. You didn't have to push so much in that match if you realized that a lot of them were half-long and not spinny. You misjudge distance and go in too close for the backhand flips, causing errors.

Another thing is that, I get the feeling that when you backhand attack, you thinking that it's an easy ball that you're hitting it. Try to spin it. If you think it's high/not spinny, spin it forward. If you feel like you can't spin it because it's too low, start your paddle lower and take a bigger backswing to get more speed.

One thing that I found a little strange to me was that you stay pretty close to the table. That's not my style so it piqued my interest. Are you used to close table, off-the-bounce shots?

suds79 · Dec 5, 2017

songdavid98 said:
One thing that I found a little strange to me was that you stay pretty close to the table. That's not my style so it piqued my interest. Are you used to close table, off-the-bounce shots?

Yep I'm Steve. The Lefty penholder.

Certainly Daniel was getting me with light spin serves. His motion looked like backspin but based on the reaction and how I'd often pop them up, they weren't that spinny. I could have attacked those more. Need better service receive practice.

Yeah I'd classify myself as a close to the table player. I'm not opposed to playing off. I just naturally don't for some reason. Had I ever received any type of professional coaching in my life, I'm sure they would have worked in footwork drills more and maybe I would have learned to play more off the table. But I don't and I tend to play angles I'd say slightly more than my opponents. See for example game 1 when score was 1-3 that point. (0:30) I serve Daniel wide, he doesn't loop with all that much power, I TPB block down the line. Played that point a million times in my life. So I suppose there the close to the table play works.

Never say never but for now I'm enjoying the lack of indecision and just playing TPB as my main go to on service receive. It's what feels more comfortable and there were a few times in that game where Daniel tried to serve me quick down the line which opened up an easy TPB block cross court thus beginning the angles (poor man's He Zhi Wen) style of play.

Trying to not use the LPs all that much as I want to attack but it is nice for the rare service receive if I want to RPB chop vs most serves or even bump/swipe if the serve is backspin.

Will try to get some video of training coming up soon. It gets tricky with Holidays being here.

SFF_lib · Dec 5, 2017

parkash.imangry said:
I was actually thinking of moving to a tacky rubber on BH as well...to get more spin on the new poly 40+ balls

Sent from my Redmi Note 3 using Tapatalk

What make you think you need more spin?

Having said that, rubbers in China are so cheap. I switched to BH tacky rubber a few months ago. My cousin in China bought a genuine H3-50 for only ¥110 ($13 USD).

So I understand why people in China can EJ so much.

If your BH rubber is worn doesn't harm to try H3-50 or TG3-60. Those are very consistent spinny BH rubbers.

Passionate about TT

ttmonster · Dec 5, 2017

I am currently using Xiom Omega Pro IV ... how much change do you think H3-50 is from that ? and which one would you prefer Soft or Mid hard ...

... I like to Loop, loop - drive , block and banana flip on the backhand , standard close to the table shots... meaning I am not a mid-distance two wing looper for the most part, sometime though I end up far from the table..

SFF_lib said:
What make you think you need more spin?

Having said that, rubbers in China are so cheap. I switched to BH tacky rubber a few months ago. My cousin in China bought a genuine H3-50 for only ¥110 ($13 USD).

So I understand why people in China can EJ so much.

If your BH rubber is worn doesn't harm to try H3-50 or TG3-60. Those are very consistent spinny BH rubbers.

Passionate about TT

SFF_lib · Dec 5, 2017

ttmonster said:
I am currently using Xiom Omega Pro IV ... how much change do you think H3-50 is from that ? and which one would you prefer Soft or Mid hard ...

... I like to Loop, loop - drive , block and banana flip on the backhand , standard close to the table shots... meaning I am not a mid-distance two wing looper for the most part, sometime though I end up far from the table..

I am using H3-50 soft (37 degree DHS scale) on my Butterfly ZJK ALC. I do two wing loop. The H3-50 soft gives me enough power even from mid/far distance.

Grip is great. The sponge feels more lively than commercial Neo sponge. So control is very great.

The only downside with the soft one is my banana flick has to be executed fairly accurately otherwise it won't give sufficient power.

Sorry I haven't tried Xiom Omega pro IV so I can't comment.

Passionate about TT

parkash.imangry · Dec 6, 2017

SFF_lib said:
What make you think you need more spin?

Having said that, rubbers in China are so cheap. I switched to BH tacky rubber a few months ago. My cousin in China bought a genuine H3-50 for only ¥110 ($13 USD).

So I understand why people in China can EJ so much.

If your BH rubber is worn doesn't harm to try H3-50 or TG3-60. Those are very consistent spinny BH rubbers.

Passionate about TT

My set of old balls are much more spinner than the new 40+ poly ones....that's why may be...plus I am more spin oriented player rather than speed.

Sent from my Redmi Note 3 using Tapatalk

suds79 · Dec 6, 2017

SFF_lib said:
I am using H3-50 soft (37 degree DHS scale) on my Butterfly ZJK ALC. I do two wing loop. The H3-50 soft gives me enough power even from mid/far distance.

Grip is great. The sponge feels more lively than commercial Neo sponge. So control is very great.

That's exactly the rubber I plan to try next. Looking for that euro like sponge on a sticky topsheet. I've hit with this rubber a little and I like it.

SFF_lib · Dec 6, 2017

parkash.imangry said:
My set of old balls are much more spinner than the new 40+ poly ones....that's why may be...plus I am more spin oriented player rather than speed.

Sent from my Redmi Note 3 using Tapatalk

Then doesn't harm to get a piece on Taobao. Like I said since you are in China, you are very lucky to pay a much cheaper price for H3-50.

Passionate about TT

SFF_lib · Dec 6, 2017

suds79 said:
That's exactly the rubber I plan to try next. Looking for that euro like sponge on a sticky topsheet. I've hit with this rubber a little and I like it.

Yeah I really enjoy using H3-50. The sponge engages very well.

Passionate about TT

Just curious how many Penholders are on TTD?

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