Just curious how many Penholders are on TTD?

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it's super late, just finished editing 30 mins raw video down to ~6 mins

as mentioned a few days ago, i was hitting well last week, perhaps because I was hitting with 2 ~2000+ players, i mixed in rpb, tpb, sh bh ... felt good but alas no video. tonight, hit with 2 players my level and another a few levels lower.

the video is what it is... excuses aside, my rpb is not a rounding stroke like i had back in april of this year.

0:00-1:11 PH FH (my fh is da sucky, 42andbackpains noted something wrong with it, it's been jedi mind tricking me... ttmonster thinks i block TOO much with tpb on my fh side as well as not work my fh, so i lost it.)

1:11-1:35 SH FH (fh is sucky too - but on sh, i worked on my bh way more than my fh)

1:35-1:52 - SH BH from my fh side (phone camera inside a locker, didn't want to stand on my bh side and block the camera)

1:52-2:16 TPB from my fh side

2:16-2:48 RPB from fh side (contrast this with below vid of my warmup with 42andbackpains - rounding stroke is mostly or all gone ... i'm RPB punching now or some i may be stroking)

2:48-3:04 - SH BH from fh side

3:04-4:24 PH FH loop - my loop, if you can call it that, is sucky... my fh is sucky ... anyway, mixed in short stroke, mostly topspin, with longer stroke sidespin loop

4:24-4:47 - TPB

4:47-5:03 RPB

5:03- 5:23 SH BH

5:23-5:42 back to RPB

5:42-5:57 back to SH BH

5:57-6:00 SH BH loop DON'T BLINK! my interpretation of NextLevel's whip mechanics/checkmark BH loop

6:00-6:15 RPB loop DON'T BLINK! my interpretation of NextLevel's whip mechanics/checkmark BH loop

https://vimeo.com/247098311


have at me!

Doh jeh Si-hing!

I will try to get video of my current SH BH and RPB next week ... here are old videos that I'm not sure if you have seen. This was about the time I started SH seriously to try to learn RPB. Using an American Hinoki 1 ply WRC 9mm with Tenergy 80-FX both sides ... hitting with DTT CCer 42andbackpains

https://vimeo.com/214625328

~1:34-2:22 is my RPB - back then it was a short rounding stroke... my current RPB is more of a punch or if longer stroke, i follow through straighter stroke but basically it's a straighter stroke now ...

I hit a few RPB just for the heck of it. We were playing at a mutual friend/brother's basement and they all laughed at my SH and trying out the RPB.

--------------

My partner P was a former modern PH, he couldn't get the RPB down, so he went to SH

https://vimeo.com/217129193

~1:20-4:20 is the SH BH ...

~4:20 - 5:40 is my TPB punch/push block - back then I didn't try the RPB all that much at my club when it's crowded - just concentrated on SH BH

--------------

K. working with me on RPB loop ... don't recall, probably my first serious drilling the RPB loop ... late at the club, not as much members, was able to keep the table for ourselves and drill. Forgive camera angles, placed it on the table next to ours.


Since this video, have added NextLevel's whip motion/checkmark motion on some of my RPB loops.

------------

Sometime after these videos, i took a few months off, shoulder acting up, driving lessons with my eldest daughter during the summer, etc.

Will be nice to capture on video my current SH BH and RPB for comments as well as documentation to see my progress

--------------

NOTE: For the SHers - since these 2 videos, i've slowly adjusted my index finger position to slightly more proper position.
 
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Thanks for the videos OSP. Something about your practice I think helped affirm an idea I had the other day with my delema of choosing TPB or RPB.

So for some time now, I like RPB. I like the power I get from hit. While I need to learn gears with it, ex: when to soft loop, overall I think it's a good weapon.

However, in actual matches or in quick exchanges, if a shot comes quick to my BH i automatically/instinctively look to block TPB and that bugs me. Yes, I have good directional blocks with it at times. But also there's times when someone out spins me with a powerful topspin shot and I literally cannot close the blade enough to keep it on the table (something I've never really had a problem with RPB since you can close it all the way if you want) or in cases where I block it back but it does not have enough power to keep me realistically in the point. Rather, I'm on the defensive.

So how to break this habit? When I practice at home, I like my RPB blocking. I just can't get my brain to think "always do this" like I'm shooting for.

Then it hit me and watching OSP's video where he does a similar thing to what I do affirmed to me that maybe (will have to test) this could be the solution.

Check out these two gifs. One from a recent match I had and another from RPB king Wang Hao. Note my resting or starting position and where my hand is at.

cache.php


vs
cache.php


See how Wang Hao is kinda in that classic (maybe backhand oriented) "ready position" stance. From there the RPB is natural.

Contrast that to mine where my paddle is down and maybe more toward the FH side where going to TPB is natural.

But when i practice vs the robot practicing RPB block, I'm more much in that Wang Hao like stance and I find continuing to RPB block or attack natural. For me to do a TPB here would actually be a pinch awkward in that I'd have to turn over my paddle. With Wang Hao's stance, you're BH is almost in the ready position. From there you just have to be ready, or quick to go to the FH when needed.

I'll see if it works but it's something I think that's worth noting.
 
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Ah ok suds, if i get you, the ready position you are naturally in favors TPB and you would waste precious time to go for the RPB

However at home vs robot, you are drilling RPB and already in ready position that favors RPB

I have no solution, as I've not played matches much, just practicing. Although part of me wants to be like Wang Hao, I think I will end up more like Ma Lin.

However this kind of goes back to our earlier discussion of the LP on backside being a crutch..
The rpb may be a crutch.

EDIT: critch in semse that if used like LP to return shots one can't normally return... but then Ma Lin is a fine example of it not being a crutch but being a weapon, a tool...
 
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Ah ok suds, if i get you, the ready position you are naturally in favors TPB and you would waste precious time to go for the RPB

However at home vs robot, you are drilling RPB and already in ready position that favors RPB

I have no solution, as I've not played matches much, just practicing. Although part of me wants to be like Wang Hao, I think I will end up more like Ma Lin.

However this kind of goes back to our earlier discussion of the LP on backside being a crutch..
The rpb may be a crutch.

Well to me the fix seems easier now. All I have to do is get more in a better (almost backhand) ready position in a rally and I think I'll be apt to use the RPB.

But if I continue to be lazy holding my paddle down by my side, sure the TPB will continue.

So I'll give it a go and report back in time what I think.
 
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Prepare for some hot garbage


Some good stuff there. I always like watching good players play that aren't necessarily professionals to see what they do in certain situations as I find tips & tricks done there more relevant.

Like your RPB block. Wish my RPB block came as natural to me (vs TPB) as yours does for you but I'm working on it.

Interesting because even though you play penhold, I think I'd classify you as a backhand oriented player. Perhaps it's the match up but you seemed to hit a lot of those in the match vs say some step arounds for FH. (see point at 8:42 as example. Opportunity after that nice open up there. IDK. Seems as though you were injured so maybe that's why) Clearly you favor the Wang Hao playing style :p

I also liked the RPB pushes when necessary. The concept of that seems to make sense to me. Say if you're looking to RPB loop maybe a serve or something and change you mind feeling it's better to push. Rather than turning over your paddle, you just push with that RPB side. Anyways, I think the concept is interesting.

PS - your opponent has a real nice soft open up with his BH on serves and on mostly any ball really.

Like your guy's playing style. 2nd time I've said this today so maybe I should expand on this but I feel like you guys play the right way. ex: When to play safe, when to attack, etc.
 
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bad habit i kept from when i was younger and played shakehand chopper style.

you will see me backing off the table a lot. but thats in anticipation to the other guys shots he usually plays with a bit more power and spin. so im expecting for them to come at me much faster and spinier hence why a lot of the punches go into the the net. that and i tend to angle down too much. as well as being in a bit of a rush to finish the game as the hall was closing.

the backhand push i usually only do if i dont have time to step around or just spin variation and/or in prep for a flick
 
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I mentioned that I like watch people who are good but not necessarily pros for inspiration and ideas and here's an example of this.

If I'm critiquing my own game, I would say I play too aggressive. Going for too many shots that are low % and not being patient enough. Consequently, a lot of matches I lose I feel like I simply give points away with errors.

If all I did was watch Xu Xin or Xue Fei, you'd say "Yep. That's how to do it Suds. That's how to play. Loop everything off the table and keep all pushes on the table super short & spiny." :)

While that might be something good to strive for in improving your play, I find it doesn't necessarily always work out that way on the intermediate level.

So today with my hit session with my co-worker who is relatively close to my level I practiced with these goal in mind.

  • #1 play more controlled.
  • #2 Play more off the table (which for me seems to play into #1 easier)

Inspired by Decoy's match vs his training partner (who was also very good), I couldn't help but notice the % of times they played a steady, solid shot vs all out crushing it. So that's what I tried.

Holy moly could just be I was just on today but I put it on my buddy. Some nice shots, more control and admittedly, him with some errors.

Playing off the table:

I think I'm really really going to like this on service receive. I've noticed that I've been struggling with long fast serves. Typically heavy sidespin. Mostly going to my backhand. Normally I'd take these either with a TPB push or RPB attack shortly off the bounce and just wasn't hitting a good enough %. But now, I feel I have more time. I let the ball bounce and even drop a bit. In my head it seems like the spin cools off some and i have more time to read it. I was working on RPB soft looping (something I can do well with my FH and have been doing for years) vs a RPB power loop. I also did a lot of RPB chops & pushes and in either case what I go with, take a few jumps back to be well off the table ready for the next ball. Shoot I even fished a few times.

If the serve was super short, I simply stepped in and pushed if it's low.

The result was more steady play. Not giving away so many points. I couldn't have been happier how it turned out.

Furthermore, I'm still young enough to where I welcome the game of "lets both play off the table and get into a loop battle" as I feel my odds are solid in coming out ahead there. So if I can get in the habit of playing more off the table, I think it'll play out better for me.

Will try to get some video at club this Sunday vs some tougher (for me at least) competition
 
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JeffM et al,

During lunch, I went through 19 pages of this thread and noted members that posted saying they play PH. I went through the pages fast, there were 5 I am not sure if they play PH or just posting on this thread. Will start with page 20 to the current last page of 31 when i have time.

Through 19 pages of this thread, there are 31 PHers and 5 that I'm not sure of:

101010
BlueSkies (part-time coach that plays SH but started playing some PH due to a PH student)
Christian Adrian Aniceta
Dan.1
decoy
dici (PH who may switch to SH due to finger injury)
fcvyy
Flatstyk
genrel001
Jabugo
James Livesey
JeffM
Kaizoku
Liten
mky
OldschoolPenholder
Ot Ot
parkash.imangry
PierreAd
pingp0ngpaul
Pricey 11
SFF_lib
shinshiro (Lefty JPen RPB)
songdavid98
suds79
Suga D (SH who sometimes plays PH for fun)
Tadeiro (Lefty JPen)
TurboZ
Vector Operator
violoniste18
zaw thwe

<colgroup><col width="64" style="width:48pt"> </colgroup><tbody>
</tbody>



???

fais
Jirrex
lyh
Jan Jan Salcedo Yañez
Darren Maudling

<colgroup><col width="64" style="width:48pt"> </colgroup><tbody>
</tbody>
 
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Excellent progress suds!

I've posted elsewhere that sometimes higher-level players vs me would just play steady to return the ball and let me make the mistakes and lose points. No need for them to 'overpower' me all the time with their shots.

I sometimes do the same to partners who are a little lower level than me... play steady and let them develop their game. Sometimes I overpower them with some shots to also let them develop their game in knowing a higher level shot is returning.

It's all Yin-Yang to me, 2 parts of the whole ... overpower and steady return.

Congratus again suds!

I mentioned that I like watch people who are good but not necessarily pros for inspiration and ideas and here's an example of this.

If I'm critiquing my own game, I would say I play too aggressive. Going for too many shots that are low % and not being patient enough. Consequently, a lot of matches I lose I feel like I simply give points away with errors.

If all I did was watch Xu Xin or Xue Fei, you'd say "Yep. That's how to do it Suds. That's how to play. Loop everything off the table and keep all pushes on the table super short & spiny." :)

While that might be something good to strive for in improving your play, I find it doesn't necessarily always work out that way on the intermediate level.

So today with my hit session with my co-worker who is relatively close to my level I practiced with these goal in mind.

  • #1 play more controlled.
  • #2 Play more off the table (which for me seems to play into #1 easier)

Inspired by Decoy's match vs his training partner (who was also very good), I couldn't help but notice the % of times they played a steady, solid shot vs all out crushing it. So that's what I tried.

Holy moly could just be today but I put it on my buddy today. Some nice shots, more control and admittedly, him with some errors.

Playing off the table:

I think I'm really really going to like this on service receive. I've noticed that I've been struggling with long fast serves. Typically heavy sidespin. Mostly going to my backhand. Normally I'd take these either with a TPB push or RPB attack shortly off the bounce and just wasn't hitting a good enough %. But now, I feel I have more time. I let the ball bounce and even drop a bit. In my head it seems like the spin cools off some and i have more time to read it. I was working on RPB soft looping (something I can do well with my FH and have been doing for years) vs a RPB power loop. I also did a lot of RPB chops & pushes and in either case what I go with, take a few jumps back to be well off the table ready for the next ball. Shoot I even fished a few times.

If the serve was super short, I simply stepped in and pushed if it's low.

The result was more steady play. Not giving away so many points. I couldn't have been happier how it turned out.

Furthermore, I'm still young enough to where I welcome the game of "lets both play off the table and get into a loop battle" as I feel my odds are solid in coming out ahead there.

Will try to get some video at club this Sunday vs some tougher (for me at least) compet
 
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Excellent progress suds!

I've posted elsewhere that sometimes higher-level players vs me would just play steady to return the ball and let me make the mistakes and lose points. No need for them to 'overpower' me all the time with their shots.

I sometimes do the same to partners who are a little lower level than me... play steady and let them develop their game. Sometimes I overpower them with some shots to also let them develop their game in knowing a higher level shot is returning.

It's all Yin-Yang to me, 2 parts of the whole ... overpower and steady return.

Congratus again suds!

For sure there's a Yin-Yang to it. I try to remind myself controlled doesn't mean play passive. I mean if I get what I deem to be as one of my shots, I'm going for it. But overall it was just trying to gear it down a pinch more on what I'd instinctively call tougher shots.
 
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For sure there's a Yin-Yang to it. I try to remind myself controlled doesn't mean play passive. I mean if I get what I deem to be as one of my shots, I'm going for it. But overall it was just trying to gear it down a pinch more on what I'd instinctively call tougher shots.

There's 2 SH that play passively, just look to return their partner's shots. They are about my level or 1-2 above me, but due to their non-aggressiveness, I should be beating them easily.

And this is where TT is truly humbling... i have not mastered myself yet! i rush my shots :( during practice, they see i hit on one level, and yet during a game, i play a few levels below my ability because I rush my shots and losing on unforced errors. It's one thing to say my partner overpowered me with speed/spin/power/placement, it's another to say i lost on unforced errors :(

So in the past few months when i have been able to go to the club, i just hit/practice. No real matches for the most part. I have to dial down my intensity if i play matches ... looking forward to play a match someday to see if i have my head on straight. having fun though trying to work my strokes/form and have all the moving parts working in unison instead of disjointedly

LOL at me!!
 
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JeffM et al,

During lunch, I went through 19 pages of this thread and noted members that posted saying they play PH. I went through the pages fast, there were 5 I am not sure if they play PH or just posting on this thread. Will start with page 20 to the current last page of 31 when i have time.

Through 19 pages of this thread, there are 31 PHers and 5 that I'm not sure of:

101010
BlueSkies (part-time coach that plays SH but started playing some PH due to a PH student)
Christian Adrian Aniceta
Dan.1
decoy
dici (PH who may switch to SH due to finger injury)
fcvyy
Flatstyk
genrel001
Jabugo
James Livesey
JeffM
Kaizoku
Liten
mky
OldschoolPenholder
Ot Ot
parkash.imangry
PierreAd
pingp0ngpaul
Pricey 11
SFF_lib
shinshiro (Lefty JPen RPB)
songdavid98
suds79
Suga D (SH who sometimes plays PH for fun)
Tadeiro (Lefty JPen)
TurboZ
Vector Operator
violoniste18
zaw thwe

<tbody>
</tbody>



???

fais
Jirrex
lyh
Jan Jan Salcedo Yañez
Darren Maudling

<tbody>
</tbody>

I'm also a penholder :)
 
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Playing off the table:

I think I'm really really going to like this on service receive. I've noticed that I've been struggling with long fast serves. Typically heavy sidespin. Mostly going to my backhand. Normally I'd take these either with a TPB push or RPB attack shortly off the bounce and just wasn't hitting a good enough %. But now, I feel I have more time. I let the ball bounce and even drop a bit. In my head it seems like the spin cools off some and i have more time to read it. I was working on RPB soft looping (something I can do well with my FH and have been doing for years) vs a RPB power loop. I also did a lot of RPB chops & pushes and in either case what I go with, take a few jumps back to be well off the table ready for the next ball. Shoot I even fished a few times.

i too struggle with fast long serves to bh in a game. but if you take a friend and tell him to serve like fast no spin/blackspin to your bh you will find that its rather easy to return. at first you wont be returning a dangerous shot it will jsut be on the table..

the main point is not to freeze up. get your bat nice and low , dont tense up and just do a normal swing against backspin. dont rush it, and over time you add more power and so on
 
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JeffM et al,

During lunch, I went through 19 pages of this thread and noted members that posted saying they play PH. I went through the pages fast, there were 5 I am not sure if they play PH or just posting on this thread. Will start with page 20 to the current last page of 31 when i have time.

Through 19 pages of this thread, there are 31 PHers and 5 that I'm not sure of:

101010
BlueSkies (part-time coach that plays SH but started playing some PH due to a PH student)
Christian Adrian Aniceta
Dan.1
decoy
dici (PH who may switch to SH due to finger injury)
fcvyy
Flatstyk
genrel001
Jabugo
James Livesey
JeffM
Kaizoku
Liten
mky
OldschoolPenholder
Ot Ot
parkash.imangry
PierreAd
pingp0ngpaul
Pricey 11
SFF_lib
shinshiro (Lefty JPen RPB)
songdavid98
suds79
Suga D (SH who sometimes plays PH for fun)
Tadeiro (Lefty JPen)
TurboZ
Vector Operator
violoniste18
zaw thwe

<colgroup><col width="64" style="width:48pt"> </colgroup><tbody>
</tbody>



???

fais
Jirrex
lyh
Jan Jan Salcedo Yañez
Darren Maudling

<colgroup><col width="64" style="width:48pt"> </colgroup><tbody>
</tbody>

Thanks OSP! Great work!
 
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