Just curious how many Penholders are on TTD?

PierreAd said:

Is this considered a general advice for penholders? 1 year ago, I transitionned to penhold (after 15 years of shakehand grip), and I've had this question for a long time. Shakehand players are very often told to use the least amount of "grip pressure" to hold the bat, ideally only holding it by the thumb / index pinch (I remember a Chinese coach saying that the bat must be hold like you'd hold a bird in your hand, very gently to not hurt it). But I never found any comparable advice for penholders, and I've been wondering if penholders are supposed to grip the bat a bit more tightly compared to shakehand players, or if it depends on the specific grip you use, fingers size, etc.

I seem to need a firmer grip in penhold than in shakehand but that's all I know and I don't have many other penholders around here to discuss this... So that's an interesting topic to me (and maybe other self-trained penholders ), I'd like to know your thoughts about this.

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For penholder, our biggest advantage is our wrist.

I play violin. My teacher said the fingers on the string must be strongly pressed down, holding a firm note. Yet the wrist must be loose so that i can produce vibration.

I think the same applies to penhold. I always hold the blade tight except in short game. But i release my wrist.

It's common in violin that if your mind tighten the fingers, it tightens the wrist as well. It happens in violin. It happens in penholders as well.

It requires practice and retraining of our mind.

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In my case I hold the blade tight, but only by my index finger. I tend to wrap it in the handle firmly but my thumb and RPB fingers are loose in order to maximize wrist movement and adjust blade angle faster. The only time all of my fingers are tight is only during the ball contact. Then after the shot I return to default position and loosen all my fingers except the index finger.

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On other topics, I was planning to by a new FH rubber (inverted). Here's the case; I used to play LP/SP FH with counter hitting style. Unfortunately people in the club already found out my weakness, short-dead/chopped-balls. Every time they give me one of those the ball pops up when I return it and it's open for an attack. Since I just reached a short ball on the table, I don't have enough time to move back to receive the attack. It's annoying, so I decided to move to inverted because it can chop a chop and prevent my opponent to openly attack me.

So now I'm looking for an inverted rubber which is like a pip but without the deception. One that is low-throw, great for close-to-the-table, excellent counter machine, and capable of fishing far away from the table (don't judge me).

Here are some in my mind:
1. Xiom Sigma Pro II
2. Xiom Omega IV Pro
3. DHS Hurricane 8/ 2 NEO/ TG-2 Neo
4. Galaxy Moon Speed

As of the moment I'm using Mark V but it lacks the speed to kill and the throw angle is a bit high for me. I'm going to stick the new rubber to my new blade Galaxy 986 (5+2 Jpen).

Thanks guys!

genrel001 said:

inverted rubber which is like a pip but without the deception

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please explain further

genrel001 said:

In my case I hold the blade tight, but only by my index finger. I tend to wrap it in the handle firmly but my thumb and RPB fingers are loose in order to maximize wrist movement and adjust blade angle faster. The only time all of my fingers are tight is only during the ball contact. Then after the shot I return to default position and loosen all my fingers except the index finger.

________________________________________________________________________________________________________

On other topics, I was planning to by a new FH rubber (inverted). Here's the case; I used to play LP/SP FH with counter hitting style. Unfortunately people in the club already found out my weakness, short-dead/chopped-balls. Every time they give me one of those the ball pops up when I return it and it's open for an attack. Since I just reached a short ball on the table, I don't have enough time to move back to receive the attack. It's annoying, so I decided to move to inverted because it can chop a chop and prevent my opponent to openly attack me.

So now I'm looking for an inverted rubber which is like a pip but without the deception. One that is low-throw, great for close-to-the-table, excellent counter machine, and capable of fishing far away from the table (don't judge me).

Here are some in my mind:
1. Xiom Sigma Pro II
2. Xiom Omega IV Pro
3. DHS Hurricane 8/ 2 NEO/ TG-2 Neo
4. Galaxy Moon Speed

As of the moment I'm using Mark V but it lacks the speed to kill and the throw angle is a bit high for me. I'm going to stick the new rubber to my new blade Galaxy 986 (5+2 Jpen).

Thanks guys!

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Low throw rubber like Donic JP series and Yasaka R7 or R7 soft are great. Not too sensitive to incoming spin. Light and Fast with great control.

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out of your list you can rule out xiom omega IV pro , because its in line with Tenergy , definitely higher throw than MX-p .. its a great rubber nevertheless ..

Hurricane 8 , I personally have been using for over a year ...has good control , I would say medium throw ( I am talking about the mid-soft version ) , It has helped me improve my short game , however its still a hurricane so you need to be able to play with proper impact otherwise it won't give you you value for the effort ... , great for countering and for me flat hits are not problem

I haven't tried , but a question to the guys , would Bryce High Speed be a good fit to what the OP is asking for ?

SFF_lib said:

Low throw rubber like Donic JP series and Yasaka R7 or R7 soft are great. Not too sensitive to incoming spin. Light and Fast with great control.

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ttmonster said:

out of your list you can rule out xiom omega IV pro , because its in line with Tenergy , definitely higher throw than MX-p .. its a great rubber nevertheless ..

Hurricane 8 , I personally have been using for over a year ...has good control , I would say medium throw ( I am talking about the mid-soft version ) , It has helped me improve my short game , however its still a hurricane so you need to be able to play with proper impact otherwise it won't give you you value for the effort ... , great for countering and for me flat hits are not problem

I haven't tried , but a question to the guys , would Bryce High Speed be a good fit to what the OP is asking for ?

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I have tried Bryce high speed. Yes it is a hitting rubber. But the speed is enormous. Probably faster than T5 with pretty poor control.

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ttmonster said:

please explain further

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I mean insensitive to incoming spin.

ttmonster said:

out of your list you can rule out xiom omega IV pro , because its in line with Tenergy , definitely higher throw than MX-p .. its a great rubber nevertheless ..

Hurricane 8 , I personally have been using for over a year ...has good control , I would say medium throw ( I am talking about the mid-soft version ) , It has helped me improve my short game , however its still a hurricane so you need to be able to play with proper impact otherwise it won't give you you value for the effort ... , great for countering and for me flat hits are not problem

I haven't tried , but a question to the guys , would Bryce High Speed be a good fit to what the OP is asking for ?

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I use Omega IV Pro on RPB but with 1.8mm sponge, I have no idea about the 2.0 nor max, but I've only used it for blocking and flipping. I tried it on my FH once but the ball keep overshooting off the table. I guess you're right, I'm going to cross that one off the list.

As for Hurricane, I was also thinking of of it lately. It seems fit my style, 'coz I don't have a smooth brushing technique. It's more of: sink, drag, and flip, for me and not really brushing (that's how I generate spin in SPs). I think with the tackiness of hurricane/skyline I will have the dwell time I need to do my style and my stroke can also ignite the sponge. But one problem I have with chinese rubbers: I don't boost. I have allergic reactions to it and can trigger my asthma. So is there any chinese rubber that's good unboosted?

SFF_lib said:

Low throw rubber like Donic JP series and Yasaka R7 or R7 soft are great. Not too sensitive to incoming spin. Light and Fast with great control.

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I haven't really seen anyone play with Donic JP series, only some with Blue Fire. Blue fire is really fast and great away from the table with mid-high throw, but I don't think it suites my style. I've also tried Rakza 7 and 7 soft used by my clubmate, also a bit too high for me. May Rakza 9?

Also, I am in no way will spend that much money for Bryce High Speed. Thanks anyway.

Hurricane 8 is boosted , I would try with Mid-Soft ... from my experience and one more gentleman, transitioning from euro rubbers should not be that big a problem ... but for looping you still need to brush , for flipping the hurricane flip can be done with 8 off short underspins if you can time it right ... however if you are purely talking about hurricanes , I guess there is no substitute to boosted provincial Hurricane 3 , however I am too lazy to get into that ...

however, if you are somebody that opens on long underspin push , you will still need to get your technique to work the hurricane for you .. otherwise it won't let you spin up as easy as a tenergy ...

genrel001 said:

I mean insensitive to incoming spin.



I use Omega IV Pro on RPB but with 1.8mm sponge, I have no idea about the 2.0 nor max, but I've only used it for blocking and flipping. I tried it on my FH once but the ball keep overshooting off the table. I guess you're right, I'm going to cross that one off the list.

As for Hurricane, I was also thinking of of it lately. It seems fit my style, 'coz I don't have a smooth brushing technique. It's more of: sink, drag, and flip, for me and not really brushing (that's how I generate spin in SPs). I think with the tackiness of hurricane/skyline I will have the dwell time I need to do my style and my stroke can also ignite the sponge. But one problem I have with chinese rubbers: I don't boost. I have allergic reactions to it and can trigger my asthma. So is there any chinese rubber that's good unboosted?

Click to expand...

ttmonster said:

Hurricane 8 is boosted , I would try with Mid-Soft ... from my experience and one more gentleman, transitioning from euro rubbers should not be that big a problem ... but for looping you still need to brush , for flipping the hurricane flip can be done with 8 off short underspins if you can time it right ... however if you are purely talking about hurricanes , I guess there is no substitute to boosted provincial Hurricane 3 , however I am too lazy to get into that ...

however, if you are somebody that opens on long underspin push , you will still need to get your technique to work the hurricane for you .. otherwise it won't let you spin up as easy as a tenergy ...

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One more question, I've used H3 commercial in the past. How is it different from H8? Is the throw-angle the same?

The throw angle is definitely higher ... and you might find that the gears at the very top end is missing ... which won't be a problem for your game as you described it , it will be an issues with an out and out counter looper . I think they use a different sponge which can retain boost longer .... but definitely softer ....

genrel001 said:

One more question, I've used H3 commercial in the past. How is it different from H8? Is the throw-angle the same?

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OK! Thanks! +1 point for H8!

Now it's just between H8 and Sigma Pro II. hmmmm...

genrel001 said:

I mean insensitive to incoming spin.



I use Omega IV Pro on RPB but with 1.8mm sponge, I have no idea about the 2.0 nor max, but I've only used it for blocking and flipping. I tried it on my FH once but the ball keep overshooting off the table. I guess you're right, I'm going to cross that one off the list.

As for Hurricane, I was also thinking of of it lately. It seems fit my style, 'coz I don't have a smooth brushing technique. It's more of: sink, drag, and flip, for me and not really brushing (that's how I generate spin in SPs). I think with the tackiness of hurricane/skyline I will have the dwell time I need to do my style and my stroke can also ignite the sponge. But one problem I have with chinese rubbers: I don't boost. I have allergic reactions to it and can trigger my asthma. So is there any chinese rubber that's good unboosted?

Click to expand...

Hurricane 8 is preboosted. So you don't need to boost.

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Wow thank u guys for your asnwers, great stuff here

songdavid98 said:

In table tennis, it is generally not a good idea to grip your paddle so tightly all the time. You need to be able to securely hold the paddle without using much hand strength. Usually, the positioning of your fingers will do that for you with the penhold grip.

In the case of penhold, the thinking is the same.

If you want a shakehand and penhold comparision:

Shakehand thumb = penhold thumb and index finger
Shakehand index finger = penhold middle finger and other fingers if applied.

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I would say that since everybody's hands are different, so it is hard to say anymore than the general advice.
I wouldn't say that you really need to grip the paddle any tighter, it's just that the shakehand grip is a lot easier to correctly do.

I've experimented a lot with my grip and I've noticed that you will need to grip tighter if the paddle is not secure.

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Yeah, pretty much what I experiment. I don't intentionnally "grip" the racket with my thumb and index finger more than in shakehand, but the way fingers are positionned on front and back make them all "lock" the bat in hand (which does not imply any extra muscle fatigue, but seems to be a bit tighter by design). I've also experimented quite a bit during my first months (experimented with RPB and TPB as well) but this was a question that had bothered me for quite a while.

OldschoolPenholder said:

My oldschool grip is generally tight enough not to drop the racket ... but there's a looseness/relaxness to it ... however, generally on FH, my thumb is tighter and index finger looser and vice versa on BH, my index finger is tighter and thumb is looser

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Yeah, that's pretty much it. As for the role of thumb and index finger during backhand and forehand, I think that's a good way to go, or at least, what I've heard was the best way to do it. On FH, thumb applies more pressure to close the angle of the paddle, and on BH, index finger is tighter and drives the backhand for more power (at least for RPB).

SFF_lib said:

For penholder, our biggest advantage is our wrist.

I play violin. My teacher said the fingers on the string must be strongly pressed down, holding a firm note. Yet the wrist must be loose so that i can produce vibration.

I think the same applies to penhold. I always hold the blade tight except in short game. But i release my wrist.
It's common in violin that if your mind tighten the fingers, it tightens the wrist as well. It happens in violin. It happens in penholders as well.
It requires practice and retraining of our mind.

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I'm a bit used to the violin metaphore thanks to violoniste18, another fellow musician penholder
I think I get what you're saying. It's close from songdavid98 answer : the positionning of the fingers helps securing the bat in your hand without consciently exerting too much pressure with your fingers (which would make the wrist stiffer and lose the advantage of the PH grip). I don't think my grip is too tight then, it's just that it locks the bat very well, but overall my wrist seems quite free, so I don't think I'm doing things wrong here eventually.

genrel001 said:

In my case I hold the blade tight, but only by my index finger. I tend to wrap it in the handle firmly but my thumb and RPB fingers are loose in order to maximize wrist movement and adjust blade angle faster. The only time all of my fingers are tight is only during the ball contact. Then after the shot I return to default position and loosen all my fingers except the index finger.

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Your RPB fingers are lose in the sense that "you don't apply your own pressure on the back of the bat", I suppose? but still, I suppose they apply quite a bit of pressure on the back of the bat due to their positionning (if you're a RPB player). I'd have to check this in game, but I think my index finger is only gripping the bat "harder" on RPB strongest attack shots. On thinner contacts, I think the index grip does not tighten much more than my "neutral" grip. And on FH topspins, the thumb applies pressure on the paddle and I losen the index.

Guys, any videos to help me with TPB...I almost had no TPB.

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parkash.imangry said:

Guys, any videos to help me with TPB...I almost had no TPB.

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Ma Lin explains TPB. In Chinese tho. But you can watch the motion and guess what he's saying.

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RPB shot is an excemption. My thumb is the main pressure point during RPB shots. But I don't have active RPB, most of the time I only block with it or counter but never loop. People with active RPBs may suggest that you place the main pressure on your index finger. It's up to you. During TPB and FH strokes the index finger is the main pressure point with assisted pressure from the RPB fingers to secure the blade from slipping and the thumb is only used to vary the angle of the blade.

So finally I moved my lazy butt and played for 3 hours. Here's the pic of my RPB grip.

songdavid98 said:

You shouldn't be gripping your paddle very tightly. If you don't find it relaxing, then your fingers might be in the wrong place somewhere.

Could you take another picture, this time a picture of you holding the paddle?

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I am not a PH by any imagination and other guys will give you better advice on the grip itself , but looking at your pic its obvious you need to sand the flares down .. PH-ers always do that ...

parkash.imangry said:

So finally I moved my lazy butt and played for 3 hours. Here's the pic of my RPB grip.

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