Just curious how many Penholders are on TTD?

JeffM · Dec 22, 2018

OldschoolPenholder said:
LOL my grip!!

https://youtu.be/_uzWE4RnDMU

Hey OSP,
Very interesting to watch your video of how your grip has changed over time! I didn't know some of those grips existed before the video. Keep us updated!

OldschoolPenholder · Dec 22, 2018

JeffM said:
Hey OSP,
Very interesting to watch your video of how your grip has changed over time! I didn't know some of those grips existed before the video. Keep us updated!

Si-hing,

I am a little skeptical of my current grip or the one before with the extended fingers. My friend the coach doesn't seem to be playing a joke on me. I CANNOT find any YouTube teaching this grip though. I see Wang Hao's grip and Liu Guo Liang's grip and really apprehensive in devoting more time to this grip. I'm going on blind faith and just his word in trying this grip out. Kind of crazy where the index finger rests along the edge of the blade or can even be on the back of the blade! Am not used to not being able to curl my index finger around the handle. But with the extended fingers grip and the area on my palm near my thumb being so much on the blade, my FH was strong but pushing, serving, etc was inflexible and hard to do for me.

Hence my switch to my current with curled fingers. I will say with my current grip I am able to block, punch and flat hit well. I have not begin spinning yet as I feel my timing is still off on my block and punches.

Played last night and tested my rocket serves to my partner's BH and he returns to my BH and I RPB punch down the line for a winner. Felt good to be able to do it a few times last night as I used to be on autopilot with this tactic with my TPB.

For now I feel some form of grip similar to the picture suds posted is hard for me to block/punch/flat hit. With that grip I supposed RPB is only spinning. At some point I will experiment with that grip. I'm not crazy about my current grip as it's so unorthodox. Hit with my friend and member 42andbackpains and he spotted it immediately lol.

Will report on how this grip is working out.

Thank you Si-hing!

OldschoolPenholder · Dec 23, 2018

suds79 said:
The Subtle Key Technique Adjustments of the TPB

Over the last few weeks, my TPB block vs power loops or heavy spin confidence has improved tremendously as well as my consistency. I do use the RPB but that is saved mostly for slower balls I want to loop. With my upbringing & comfort level, I much prefer pure blocking on the BH with TPB.

One thing that has always plagued me was frustration in reading a ball, seeing that it's faster & spinnier and still blocking it long. Granted this will happen from time to time but I've seen other old time TPBers handle these balls better and far more consistent. Then by pure chance in watching an old RSM instructional video by chance, I noticed key technique adjustment that has changed everything on making that block easier. Watch closely to what RSM is doing.

The head of the blade should be pointing up. Almost at a 45 deg angle.

This is hard to explain in text so I'll encourage you to take your paddle in your hand and try this exercise.

First hold the bat like this (note: this is how I use to block which is incorrect and actually taken form a video of mine)
View attachment 18081

Try to close the bat as much as you can. Even with your thumb slid outward (don't think in the picture here I am) it's hard to twist your wrist much more isn't it? This is a major problem vs heavy spin.

Now use this grip with the head up vs more parallel to the ground as I showed above.

With the head more facing upward, you can now more easily simply bend your wrist back. It would be like in the "extension" diagram pictured here.

Where before when the paddle is parallel to the ground you have to twist your wrist. With the head up, all you have to do is bind your wrist back more. An easier movement to do.

That closes the angle more easily. Blocking power loops & heavy spin made easy. Sure you might still miss one every now & then. But at least it won't be anymore because you physically can't close the face of the blade in time.

Hope this helps any of you as much as it has me.

suds,

42andbackpains shared this channel with me. See her blade tip?

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=EyfsMsFWJy8

Good eye/observation/catch!

42andbackpains · Dec 23, 2018

OldschoolPenholder said:
suds,

42andbackpains shared this channel with me. See her blade tip?

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=EyfsMsFWJy8

Good eye/observation/catch!

Dam OSP, you let the cat out of the bag...i just stumbled onto this YT channel recently...half of the slow motion videos are very informative. Some not so good because it shows the pros doing some unorthodox techniques only they can do....lol

alas26 · Dec 31, 2018

JeffM said:
I find that I have better control with pushing from the forehand side. If I do use the RPB side to push, that is usually when I was aiming to do a banana but realized the ball is too low or i was too late, then I quickly try save a point by pushing with RPB.

For me, I also tend to want to banana (short bh side), but can’t always- and end up pushing with my reverse side. I find that it surprises my opponents more often than not and the push is really effective.

I also feel that I can get my blade angle closer and easier to flat (parallel to table & low) on the reverse side pushes.

I’ve had a lot of success pushing with the reverse side. With that said, I don’t do it solely, it’s just what comes naturally to me at the moment.

Regarding grip for RPB, I’m more of a flat fingers kind of guy. I feel this gives me the most wrist flexibility, even though I sacrifice more surface area on the reverse side (although I do grip a bit higher on the handle to remedy some of that).
This also makes flat hitting significantly easier for me!

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

OldschoolPenholder · Dec 31, 2018

alas26 said:
For me, I also tend to want to banana (short bh side), but can’t always- and end up pushing with my reverse side. I find that it surprises my opponents more often than not and the push is really effective.

I also feel that I can get my blade angle closer and easier to flat (parallel to table & low) on the reverse side pushes.

I’ve had a lot of success pushing with the reverse side. With that said, I don’t do it solely, it’s just what comes naturally to me at the moment.

Regarding grip for RPB, I’m more of a flat fingers kind of guy. I feel this gives me the most wrist flexibility, even though I sacrifice more surface area on the reverse side (although I do grip a bit higher on the handle to remedy some of that).
This also makes flat hitting significantly easier for me!

Sent from my SpyPhone using Tapatalk

Very cool! I don't intentionally push with the reverse side, but sometimes get caught in the situation.

I don't like my current grip that much. At some point, I will try your extended fingers grip with thumb and index higher on handle.

Thank you for sharing alas26!

OldschoolPenholder · Jan 9, 2019

Played a modern PH last Wednesday. He has fast footwork and smoother loop strokes both FH and RPB than me. I expected to lose already as I know I'm not playing well during matches as I have been mainly training/learning RPB this past year. He is the king of the table and doesn't let me warm up properly. We hit 3 balls all were this way: I hit to his FH and he to my BH and I return as a courtesy to his FH expecting it back to my FH and he kills the ball. He says to start. I ask how about a few FH to FH to warmup. He gives me an incredulous look like I'm crazy. The guy waiting for next suggested i hit with him to warmup. Dude kicks the guy off after 4 balls and insists on a match. I'm not warmed up after sitting for 20 mins or so and hitting 7 balls.

I win first 11-9 with a low fast FH smash. Lost next 2, don't recall exact scores but was close. 4th game I'm winning 8-2 only to lose it 11-9. I aggravated my right shoulder/deltoid from lack of warmup and during the 4th game I'm noticing the pain.

Despite the bad loss on my part and his lack of sportsmanship/common courtesy, I felt happy as I was able to use my RPB block and punch under pressure from a player my level or better than me. I directional/angle blocked him and despite his speedy footwork he was not able to get to the ball in time. I believe he overestimated himself and underestimated me. I also believe he saw my RPB vs someone earlier and thought that RPB should only be spinning as he only spins. I am happy I took the work from the ground up approach and train/practice my RPB block/punch/flat hit. I am happy and surprised that my RPB is starting to 'work' as I'm a slow learner and play inconsistently, from 1-3x a week only. Expected to take 2 yrs to get good at RPB. Only been a year. Making progress! WOOHOO!

suds79 · Jan 9, 2019

I'm sorry to hear that OSP. It is kinda annoying when you run into players like that.

There's this old man at our club who use to warm up like like. He would warm up as if we were playing points. You hit to his FH, he hits it to wherever you are not trying to run you around. Eventually I just accepted in my head that whenever I play him, there'd be no warm up. After about the 1st hit or so, I'd say "okay lets start". I figured if I don't get to hit, neither does he.

He use to get me but as time passes, I know I'm better now and he probably isn't on his same level so the matches are now easy and it makes me smile inside. Work to get there with this guy. You can do it.

Just make sure before you play him, you're already good & ready. But by no means do any kind of warm up that helps get him into a groove like hitting it right to his FH wheelhouse. I'd give him 1-2 warm up hits all placed right at his hip.

___________________________

Note for OSP:
I played a young athletic big kid on Sunday. He beat me about a year ago but the last two matches all withing the last month or so, I've won 3-0 although 2 of the games we recently played went to deuce.

Anyways, whenever I play this kid I'm reminded that sometimes winning isn't always about being better. Yes I would say my skill level is further than his but if I didn't employ the right tactics vs this kid, I would loose like I did a year ago. He has the most amazing, tennis background, big FH you have seen and can pin point it cross-court or inside-out wherever he wants it. So what do I do? I use smart tactics. I hit the ball to his BH 95% when I can. Service? to BH. Opening loop? to BH. Push? to BH. All day every day.

When I follow this gameplan, I win rather easily. Whenever i deviate from this plan, he comes back.

So what's my point? My point to OSP here is that while yes generally the better player wins as you described your guy above as being a higher level. Sometimes you can get a win simply by figuring out what they're not as great at and simply exploiting that.

I'm trying to round my game out some to take the easiest path available for beating certain players. While I'm an attacking player, I'm working on my chop & defensive game also because my goodness there are so many players who just want you to hit fast topspin to them because that's what they like. Sometimes vs those people I can overpower them. But on those days where i'm off and missing a lot of shots, got to have a backup plan. I hope OSP you can find what this kid isn't good at and exploit that.

Ranger-man · Jan 9, 2019

Could shadow table tennis be an answer to at the issue with your right shoulder/deltoid. I know it is not the same as multiwall but it could help warm up your shoulder? If yes, then maybe you could do shadow drills to the side before you step up to the table, and this way while you may not have had the chance to get into your groove with the ball, you will have lowered the chance of aggravating your shoulder?

Or, if this is an option, then see if you can get a game or two with some other player on another table before walking up to this zhlob.

Also, I agree with Suds. There has to be a chink in his armor, in fact I am sure there are several. Take the time - you might already have done this - to just sit and watch him play. Where does he like to serve? What are his favorite shots? What kind of returns does he prefer? What kinds of serves does he love to attack? Find his weaknesses and hone in on them.

I always feel that while it is great that players are able to play their own game, it is even more amazing when players are able to adapt and mold their game into something that depends on what works against their opponent at that time.

Table tennis is one of the most cerebral games out there. Whenever people ask me what my strongest point is, my answer is always the same. It is not my movement or my serve or my backhand or my forehand or my chop or my power. It is the fact that I always try to play the game that the other guy does not want me to play. Physical chess pretty much encapsulates the game of table tennis for me.

OldschoolPenholder · Jan 17, 2019

suds79 said:
Just make sure before you play him, you're already good & ready. But by no means do any kind of warm up that helps get him into a groove like hitting it right to his FH wheelhouse. I'd give him 1-2 warm up hits all placed right at his hip.

I'm a high road kind of guy. I got to be me and not stoop to his level. Call me stupid or naive LOl

Note for OSP:
I played a young athletic big kid on Sunday. He beat me about a year ago but the last two matches all withing the last month or so, I've won 3-0 although 2 of the games we recently played went to deuce.

Anyways, whenever I play this kid I'm reminded that sometimes winning isn't always about being better. Yes I would say my skill level is further than his but if I didn't employ the right tactics vs this kid, I would loose like I did a year ago. He has the most amazing, tennis background, big FH you have seen and can pin point it cross-court or inside-out wherever he wants it. So what do I do? I use smart tactics. I hit the ball to his BH 95% when I can. Service? to BH. Opening loop? to BH. Push? to BH. All day every day.

When I follow this gameplan, I win rather easily. Whenever i deviate from this plan, he comes back.

So what's my point? My point to OSP here is that while yes generally the better player wins as you described your guy above as being a higher level. Sometimes you can get a win simply by figuring out what they're not as great at and simply exploiting that.

I'm trying to round my game out some to take the easiest path available for beating certain players. While I'm an attacking player, I'm working on my chop & defensive game also because my goodness there are so many players who just want you to hit fast topspin to them because that's what they like. Sometimes vs those people I can overpower them. But on those days where i'm off and missing a lot of shots, got to have a backup plan. I hope OSP you can find what this kid isn't good at and exploit that.

As always, thank you Suds! I know this and part of my struggle is this:

1) After a 32 years break from TT, at the age of 50, I start playing again, that is a little over 3 years ago. As a kid, I didn't really train seriously. Just played for bragging rights with friends.

I kind of have my tactics on automatic but because of the 'ring rust', I'm still not consistent. Also age is a factor what with eyesight and heavier and not as mobile.

To compound matters, I'm reinventing myself by learning RPB.

2) I have to subdue my Ego and like baseball hitters, lay off the high and fast pitches with a homerun swing. I cannot resist forcing my game onto the ball vs deciding quickly the proper way to return the ball as well as proper placement.

As in martial arts, TT is not about performing my best attack but performing an attack at the weakst part of my partner. Hard to get it through my thick head at times LOL

Work in progress!

Thank you again suds!

OldschoolPenholder · Jan 17, 2019

Ranger-man said:
Could shadow table tennis be an answer to at the issue with your right shoulder/deltoid. I know it is not the same as multiwall but it could help warm up your shoulder? If yes, then maybe you could do shadow drills to the side before you step up to the table, and this way while you may not have had the chance to get into your groove with the ball, you will have lowered the chance of aggravating your shoulder?

Thank you Sir. I should do this but haven't mostly as most members have the decency or know the etiquette of proper warmup.

Or, if this is an option, then see if you can get a game or two with some other player on another table before walking up to this zhlob.

Not an option. Too many members of my club, if i call next on table 2 and go to table 1 to warmup, the others after me on table 2 will say they saw me play on table 1 and lost my spot on table 2.

Also, I agree with Suds. There has to be a chink in his armor, in fact I am sure there are several. Take the time - you might already have done this - to just sit and watch him play. Where does he like to serve? What are his favorite shots? What kind of returns does he prefer? What kinds of serves does he love to attack? Find his weaknesses and hone in on them.

I always feel that while it is great that players are able to play their own game, it is even more amazing when players are able to adapt and mold their game into something that depends on what works against their opponent at that time.

Table tennis is one of the most cerebral games out there. Whenever people ask me what my strongest point is, my answer is always the same. It is not my movement or my serve or my backhand or my forehand or my chop or my power. It is the fact that I always try to play the game that the other guy does not want me to play. Physical chess pretty much encapsulates the game of table tennis for me.

Totally agree with you and suds. I know this on some level. Part of my Ego though wants to have the satisfying kill shots etc to show him. But it was my first time playing him, I usually don't play matches. I generally practice. If it was not for J on that table, I wouldn't even go to that table. But in my mind, that dude is overconfident of his own skills and underestimating my skills. I just have to play steady and let him make mistakes over me trying to muscle the ball for a winner/ace.

Thank you again Sir!

OldschoolPenholder · Jan 17, 2019

Tuesday night, I had a good session vs multiple partners. Shoulder still achy. Concentrated on RPB block/punch/flat hit. Starting to feel comfortable in the RPB strokes. Have not really thought of TPB at all.

Kind of know this in the back of my mind, I truly believe there are 2 approaches to RPB. One is to spin and use TPB to block/punch and the other is to use RPB to block/punch/flat hit and also to spin.

What I didn't figure out, despite it being evident is the grip. With the various RPB grips be it extended fingers or curled somewhat like TPB, it's hard to block/punch/flat hit so generally those grips will spin with their RPB. My unorthodox ugly looking RPB grip allows me to easily block/punch/flat hit and spin.

Sooner or later will seriously start spinning with my RPB.

suds79 · Jan 18, 2019

Got a new robot for my birthday.

HP-07
It's a two headed robot I got for $200 and it's too early to give a full review but I have a very good feeling about this. I think it'll be worth it's weight in gold.

Coming from my previous Newgy RoboPong 540, which is a 1-wheel robot, this is a huge upgrade.

Make sure any robot you ever buy has at least 2 wheels shooting the balls out!!

I cannot emphasize this enough. For years I have struggled when i run into tournament players who hit somewhat fast and very flat or little to no spin. Why is this? Because I simply cannot practice against it. Vs heavy topspin? No problem? Vs heavy backspin? My old RoboPong handled that also. That's the problem with 1 wheeled robots. They must shoot some type of spin. They cannot shoot no-spin.

That's not the case with any 2-wheeled robot. So last night I put the top & botton wheel on equal spin to get no-spin and began to work on my greatest weakness. No-spin to my RPB. I tried to open up vs this.

I would say I was hitting the ball in about 15% of the time. No joke. But because I'm getting a million balls fed to me, I could now begin to experiment. What if I tried this balls with my strength. My forehand. No problem. Easy as can be. I had time to think about why it was different on my FH. What's my blade angle, where am I contacting the ball, etc.

I made adjustments trying to mimic those things on my RPB as with my FH. Now I'm doing something I've never done on my RPB before which is a BH soft loop open up. I could occasionally do a power RPB open up but the % chances on that shot is low for me. Now I was hitting more like 60% in. Still work to do.

My impressions of what I have to do vs no-spin:
My FH soft loop tends to have some hook on the ball. So I don't really contact the ball on the back. Rather the back/side of the ball. When I contact the ball on the back, I hit the ball too thick. Too much into the ball. When I hit some of the side, it takes off a lot off the forward momentum of the ball and allows the ball more time to drop on the table. And the ball is hit more thin & grazed also. So that's what I did. I started soft looping with my RPB not trying to swing too hard. More slow & smooth. Trying to feel the ball but also lifting up on the back & outer size of the ball for that soft loop I've always loved so much vs long serves. Plus sometimes people really hate hook on a loop as tracking a ball that jumps to the side quite a bit off the bounce can be a challenge.

Will continue to work with this and hopefully get better in time.

Ranger-man · Jan 18, 2019

And just a small thing. Today I got back to the table after almost a month. Hip pain is much better and I was able to manage it much better today as well. Did not over do it and will take it from here slowly. The best part is, normal walking aggravates it, not the lateral movement involved in table tennis, so I can play pain free as long as I can minimize the walking to get the ball, and making sure I bend down with my left foot forward, and not the right.

But the more exciting thing! Not sure why I even did it. But I was playing with a Yinhe Cpen blade today - an old setup of mine - with Gambler Peacekeeper OX on the backhand and for no reason, just out of the blue I decided to RPB a low drive to my backhand, and wow, it went back real low and in a straight trajectory down the line on the opponents forehand. It felt so good! hahaha. I might give it a go. We will see.

OldschoolPenholder · Jan 20, 2019

Ranger-man said:
And just a small thing. Today I got back to the table after almost a month. Hip pain is much better and I was able to manage it much better today as well. Did not over do it and will take it from here slowly. The best part is, normal walking aggravates it, not the lateral movement involved in table tennis, so I can play pain free as long as I can minimize the walking to get the ball, and making sure I bend down with my left foot forward, and not the right.

Great to hear Ranger-man!!

But the more exciting thing! Not sure why I even did it. But I was playing with a Yinhe Cpen blade today - an old setup of mine - with Gambler Peacekeeper OX on the backhand and for no reason, just out of the blue I decided to RPB a low drive to my backhand, and wow, it went back real low and in a straight trajectory down the line on the opponents forehand. It felt so good! hahaha. I might give it a go. We will see.

(Begin suds' voice)

Come to the Dark Side!

(/voice)

LOL at me!

momus · Jan 23, 2019

Hello to everybody!
I'm following this great site for table tennis, a long time now and finally I decided to participate too
I'm an rpb penholder and absolutely addicted to table tennis

momus · Jan 23, 2019

I recently changed my blade to Darker Speed 90. Before that, I've played with Butterfly Liu Shiwen (very nice blade) and Apollonia ZLC (nice gears but lacking a bit control). But Darker, what a revelation! My game improved from day one! It's so consistent controled and powerful at the same time, that my confidence in my strokes significantly increased. And the feeling is trully awesome, nothing like any other blade I held. I know I sound too excited, but I found my holy grail. I've already purchased another one as a backup.
(I should clarify that I've been always using ST handle blades, although modern rpb penholder)

alas26 · Jan 24, 2019

Pls delete

alas26 · Jan 24, 2019

momus said:
I recently changed my blade to Darker Speed 90. Before that, I've played with Butterfly Liu Shiwen (very nice blade) and Apollonia ZLC (nice gears but lacking a bit control). But Darker, what a revelation! My game improved from day one! It's so consistent controled and powerful at the same time, that my confidence in my strokes significantly increased. And the feeling is trully awesome, nothing like any other blade I held.

(I should clarify that I've been always using ST handle blades, although modern rpb penholder)

Holy wow, that’s thick! What are the dimensions? What rubbers are you using?

It looks awesome!

I’m also wondering how your grip is with the ST handle?

momus · Jan 24, 2019

alas26 said:
Holy wow, that’s thick! What are the dimensions? What rubbers are you using?

It looks awesome!

I’m also wondering how your grip is with the ST handle?

My grip is with extended fingers. Other than that, there isn't much difference in feeling or playing than Cpen blades. I just got used to it through the years

Weight: 87g
Dimensions: 158 x 150mm
Thickness: 9mm
Forehand: Tenergy 05
Backhand: Tenergy 64

Weight approx 82g ~ 95g
Dimensions: ~ 158 x 150mm
Thickness: 9mm

</body>

Just curious how many Penholders are on TTD?

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