Just curious how many Penholders are on TTD?

ttmonster said:

I agree on principle to this . But I feel there should be a constant monitoring from coaches to see if any player is hitting a plateau because of their equipment ... so IMO for people who don't have access to such coaching or technical advice, occassional EJ-ing is good ... the other thing I have experienced is change is always good, even if it does not work out , it just tells you that that is not the right equipment for you ... and in general the whole process of adapting to a new equipment forces you to embrace more flexibility and adaptability in the playing style ...

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Haha I can relate to that. After many attempts you tend to know what works for your style.

Passionate about TT

.. for now I am just trying to get you to play more ... that will be the second step ...

OldschoolPenholder said:

*thinks monster is trying to jedi mind trick me into shakehands style*

LOLOLOL at me!

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OldschoolPenholder said:

For now though, like you, i feel the RPB works best as a 2nd ball attack. Where there was a structural weakness in my TPB on 2nd ball return vs some spins, the RPB takes care of that for me. Unless it's a slow mostly no spin ball, I still haven't been able to integrate the RPB into my play beyond 2nd ball attack. Like you, I'm looking at age and wonder if I should go for it.

A friend who is 65 yrs old, told me that he was ~1600 and around my age, 52, he was able to hit 2000 rating 3x. Sorry long day at work, i may come across as rambling and too preachy. Please forgive me if so.

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Always good to hear form you OSP. I like your enthusiasm for the game and I like that we have similar backgrounds in being penholders who use TPB but have dabbled with RPB.

Yeah I'm playing for fun but also want to see how good i can get within reason. I say within reason because if I was really serous, i'd probably travel for some summer camp professional coaching thing as there are no coaches, particularly penhold in the state i live.

I don't regret the time i've spent on the RPB. It will still occasionally come in handy the rare times i've twiddled and have LPs on the FH and need an attacking shot because then the inverted would be on the RPB. But yes by and large I am just a TPB player. I might as well try to get that as good as I can get it and make do i figure.

I've seen old school penholders (I'm talking 60+) who have been playing that way their entire lives with incredible TPB blocking skills. Sure that wouldn't cut it anymore on the world class level but those guys can execute that attacking shots or block with certainly enough consistency to hang with some really good players. (talking USATT 2100 etc) So now the trick is to see if I can get on that same level.

Funny side story. My co-worker, who I hit with, said "Besides Ben, (who is my main training partner and has had years to get use to my LP play) how do other players fair against it?" It was a valid point. I can only think of about 2 people, one of them being my training partner, who show no signs of struggle when I use to do the LP/inverted twiddle game. Everybody else I would say yes. It was so foreign to them. Even the 2nd best player at our club who is USATT 2000 I can tell struggles against it.

Plus I kinda like it because it is so unique so that part is fun.

fais said:

I'm having to relent more and more that shakehand has a significant advantage over penhold. The rise of FZD and his backhand oriented game is like the paper to XX rock forehand - he absolutely smothers him.

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Nah I personally think both side has it's pros and cons, I am a penhold player and sometimes so have some trouble with backhand smashes and power loops, but on the forehand side we as penhold players have more control over it since we can move our wrists more freely. And anyways as said before, modern penhold style allows backhand smashes and powerloops, also we can backhand block with ease.

On the other hand, shakehand players have more or less an equal amount of power on FH and BH and yes while penholders have a slight disadvantage on backhand, I still think penhold is equally good as shakehand, it just depends on what you prefer.

XX keeps on losing is because he doesn't stay close to the table enough.

Wang Hao, although loops on both wings, he usually stayed close to the table compared to XX. If you look at WH's game, he won a lot of points with BH smash.

If XX can inherit Ma Lin's ghost serve and unpredictable short game, Wang Hao's consistent BH, XX could be unbeatable.

Passionate about TT

Had a pretty good hit last night at club.

Lost 2-3 twice to my training partner who always beats me but at least I'm getting close.

Anyways, while the LP play helped from time to time, it also had its disadvantages. I think i just need to pick what I enjoy the most & got with it. But yeah in that match i was willingly embracing my inner Ma Lin and not afraid to simply opt for the TPB. Furthermore, when I was using it, i was trying to be mindful that i need to aggressive punch with it vs just passively blocking. When I do that, I can get some good pace on the ball with an aggressive punch forward.

I think it's time to move on from my Clipper. It's probably the nicest blade I've ever owned but for me it seems to perfect suited for Short pip, drive speed play. With inverted I have to play soft sponged rubbers to make up for it's lack of flex. I was helping a buddy work on LP chopping and I was switching between my current Clipper setup and an old YinHe W6 (5 ply wood flexy blade) with a dead, super soft inverted sponge. It's noticeably slower... And I liked that. Just feel so easy to loop in ball after ball. Long story short, I really prefer flexy blades vs stiff ones for looping. Who knew?


So I think I'm in the market for a new penhold blade. Something thin and more flexly. And slower than the Clipper. I'm eyeing a few options. We'll see how soon I can make that happen.

suds79 said:

Had a pretty good hit last night at club.

Lost 2-3 twice to my training partner who always beats me but at least I'm getting close.

Anyways, while the LP play helped from time to time, it also had its disadvantages. I think i just need to pick what I enjoy the most & got with it. But yeah in that match i was willingly embracing my inner Ma Lin and not afraid to simply opt for the TPB. Furthermore, when I was using it, i was trying to be mindful that i need to aggressive punch with it vs just passively blocking. When I do that, I can get some good pace on the ball with an aggressive punch forward.

I think it's time to move on from my Clipper. It's probably the nicest blade I've ever owned but for me it seems to perfect suited for Short pip, drive speed play. With inverted I have to play soft sponged rubbers to make up for it's lack of flex. I was helping a buddy work on LP chopping and I was switching between my current Clipper setup and an old YinHe W6 (5 ply wood flexy blade) with a dead, super soft inverted sponge. It's noticeably slower... And I liked that. Just feel so easy to loop in ball after ball. Long story short, I really prefer flexy blades vs stiff ones for looping. Who knew?


So I think I'm in the market for a new penhold blade. Something thin and more flexly. And slower than the Clipper. I'm eyeing a few options. We'll see how soon I can make that happen.

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One of my club mates used Stiga Allround Classic with Stiga Almana rubbers. Her game is so consistent, has tons of spin (but not fast), almost textbook. I tried her racket, it's a SH though but played it with PH grip, to my amaze the blade is very flexible. It bend so much that I got scared to do my full stroke drive with it thinking that I might break the blade. But paired with the soft rubber the control is amazing, it has so much dwell time, and tons of spin. I think pairing it with fast hard rubber will make up for the lack of speed. You might wanna give it a try.

suds79 said:

So I think I'm in the market for a new penhold blade. Something thin and more flexly. And slower than the Clipper. I'm eyeing a few options. We'll see how soon I can make that happen.

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I thought that is what I wanted...so I had OSP make me a penhold Expert...and it felt like everything magically stayed on the table but I was missing that intoxicating "oomph" of speed, so now I play the 7 ply Ultimate or the Martin in carbon! The Expert sits on a shelf. I think sometimes it is a matter of what "feel" you want from the game.

Great points from genrel001 and Flatstyk.

Genre, I have also read that the Stiga Allround Classic is a very control nice flexy blade. Plus I really, based on my clipper, how stiga's penhold blades feel. the handle thickness on them is thinner and just more comfortable. So that is an option.

Flatstyk, you make a great point about going too far from one extreme to the other. Yes it is about that feel & balance you're looking for. I think right now I'm playing on the extreme with a fast blade that's crazy stiff.

Some options I'm considering is that Yasaka Sweeden Extra which happens to be on sale form tabletennis11.com right now. This is the classic, flexy, 5 ply wood blade, that is famous for it's spin but you hear it tends to be slow. But that doesn't really concern me. I'm pretty confident speed that's good enough to finish the point won't be a problem. Furthermore, I love little touch push shots on serves that just dribble barely over the net. Really gets players who naturally play a little off the table. That's easier to do with slower equipment.
http://www.tabletennis11.com/other_eng/yasaka-sweden-extra-ch-pen

Another option I'm considering is this new blade from Gambler called the Fire Dragon Touch. Sometimes I wonder if I'm too old school. Play with the Clipper. Use TPB. Considering Yasaka Extra. etc. A little bit of more modern might be good for me. So I've noticed a lot of pros going to carbon with this new ball. Fire Dragon Touch is their 7 ply but still skinny flexy blade a pinch slower than their other blades. I've played with two other Gambler products in the past and have liked them. Furthermore, the one time in my past where I tested out a slower carbon blade I liked it. Large sweet spot and good spin.
https://www.zeropong.com/composite-...re-dragon-touch-penhold-with-free-shirt-p-419

Decisions, decisions. Thanks for the input.

Post Edit: I decided to pull the trigger on the Gambler Fire Pro Touch. Will report my impressions probably within a week or two.

Guess who’s back with a brand new bat that’s got the whole table tennis club goin’ mad [emoji3][emoji3]

Ive purchased the Stiga Celero wood Cpen with andro rasanter r42 on the FH and DHS Cloud and Fog 3 on the BH.

Will try it in a league match tomorrow and let you know my thoughts - wonder if I can get an around the net RPB with long pips lol


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Pricey 11 said:

Guess who’s back with a brand new bat that’s got the whole table tennis club goin’ mad [emoji3][emoji3]

Ive purchased the Stiga Celero wood Cpen with andro rasanter r42 on the FH and DHS Cloud and Fog 3 on the BH.

Will try it in a league match tomorrow and let you know my thoughts - wonder if I can get an around the net RPB with long pips lol


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It's a beautiful blade and great performance. And it's affordable.

Good luck

Passionate about TT

suds79 said:

I think it's time to move on from my Clipper. It's probably the nicest blade I've ever owned but for me it seems to perfect suited for Short pip, drive speed play. With inverted I have to play soft sponged rubbers to make up for it's lack of flex. I was helping a buddy work on LP chopping and I was switching between my current Clipper setup and an old YinHe W6 (5 ply wood flexy blade) with a dead, super soft inverted sponge. It's noticeably slower... And I liked that. Just feel so easy to loop in ball after ball. Long story short, I really prefer flexy blades vs stiff ones for looping. Who knew?


So I think I'm in the market for a new penhold blade. Something thin and more flexly. And slower than the Clipper. I'm eyeing a few options. We'll see how soon I can make that happen.

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I'd say Stiga Offensive Classic rather than AC. OC is not that fast, it's thin and flexy. I couldn't play with it in shakehand, typically the kind of blades I don't like (I prefer less flexible blade, played with a lot of "thin 7-plys" or "thick 5-plys" blades), but a partner of mine tried it and uses it since then.

Personnally I've just moved from the YEO to the Offensive Wood NCT and even if I miss the YEO's incredible feeling, the OW NCT is much more forgiving and thus easier to play, so overall I'm gaining trust in my game, more balls landing on the table, and it seems to be working pretty well so far. I'd love to be able to play with the YEO again someday but at this point, it's too fast for me.

Well i played my first match yesterday penhold for about 8/10 weeks and it was good i felt more confident towards the end.

What i will say is the celero wood is hmmmm different im not sure if thats a good different or a bad different, its a very very solid none flex blade to begin with i felt like i was getting no spin what so ever but as i kept using it i became a tad more used to it. Here are my pros and cons below:

Pros - well balanced, great for blocking, good for flat hitting, not too fast not too slow

Cons - wasnt getting much of an arc even thiugh i was using a softish rubber, due to the hardnesss serving is abit more difficult as the ball doesnt feel like its sinking in, had a loud clonking noise, needs sanding wings like razorblades

Im sure alot of the cons will go with time but theres my first impressions


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So while I pride myself on my service game, I'll be the first to admit that a really fast either topspin or fast dead serve is not something I really have.

For that reason, I appreciate Kaii's demonstration here.

I know you have to use your body to propel the ball forward that fast. I just don't see how he does it. Doesn't look like a lot of forward momentum however the speed is still good.

I should note that his blade face starting position opposite from my main starting point. His starting point reminds me of Wang Hao with the forehand side of the blade facing the opponent. I've always started wth backhand side facing the opponent (like as if the blade is facing up. think Ma Lin or He Zhi Wen).

I do have a set of serves where I start in this position like Kaii does. I have my penhold version poor man's par garrell punch serve with side/top & side/back I do. But it's not my main setup.

My main step is the open faced start position, serve wide curving away from their FH (remember I'm a lefty) only to try to block down the line on the 3rd ball. Think He Zhi Wen. Problem is you must have a fast down the line serve to keep players from cheating over too much towards the middle.

Overall I probably believe it's best to have the same starting point for all your serves. This way they don't know what's coming until you actually hit it. Don't want them to know what type of serve you're doing from your starting point.

I suppose I could take this starting point Kaii is doing and transition into my wide He Zhi Wen serve during the toss if necessary. That seems easier than doing it the other way for me for some reason. Always something to work on. Just takes more practice I'm sure.

suds79 said:

Overall I probably believe it's best to have the same starting point for all your serves. This way they don't know what's coming until you actually hit it. Don't want them to know what type of serve you're doing from your starting point.

.

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My theory is that while of course it is important to have more than one serve from the same location, the exact same serve delivered from different points on the table will result in very different return problems for the receiving player. The weakness in this way of thinking, for me, is that I am working too many different serves patterns (think possible 3rd ball combos) instead of perfecting the best ones.

OldschoolPenholder said:

Maybe because I'm not using the proper RPB grip and maybe because I still have the TPB punch in my game, ?

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OSPH...I like the down the line punch! Thumbs up.

suds79 said:

I just don't see how he does it. Doesn't look like a lot of forward momentum however the speed is still good.

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On the side view, do you see how his paddle went from / to | ? That's where the speed came from. Wrist is involved there.

I do the same thing to get a fast pendulum serve.