Just curious how many Penholders are on TTD?

Musclesturtle said:

Does RPB really pay off at an amateur level? Because there are still TPB players at very high levels. At what level does the TBP become a liability? How much skill on your opponent's part does it take to take advantage of a TPB player?

I'm only asking because RPB seems to be more trouble than it's worth for amateurs. I'm not saying that it shouldn't be learned by everyone, but I'm just curious to the idea if it may be a noob trap or not.

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More trouble than it's worth? For me personally hitting RPB was extremely natural. Just watch the Wang Hao tutorial weekly haha.

I honestly find TPB blocks fiddly, awkward and unnatural (I have change my grip significantly, and almost twiddle the blade forward and lift my thumb completely off to close the blade angle at all - is this normal?). I will use a TPB push or chop to receive a serve, and occasionally get forced to block TPB in my crossover point, but that's it.

Possibly related, I've been trying out straight fingers on the back of the blade this week, and I don't think I like it. I'm actually going more the other way to extremely curled fingers - almost as curled as my index finger. I like silver's idea of sanding down the back of the handle to reduce the "lever" on the back fingers. I think I'll start trying that mod a little at a time.

I'm probably better with shakehand, because that's what I started with, but penhold can generate a lot more spin, such as with hook shots

So I mentioned I tried straight fingers on the back of the bat recently, but didn't like it. I've returned to having a very curled middle finger on the back of the bat. Now I was looking up the Wong Chun Ting tutorials that got posted here a couple of years ago, and I saw that my grip is actually similar to what he uses. His middle finger is almost bent 90 degrees just at the first joint. It's a very compact grip for RPB, most other penholders would have had the ball hit their fingers trying this shot!



I'll admit to being a big fan of watching Wong Chun Ting play, overrated or not. I like watching his games more than Xu Xin or Xue Fei (though I haven't seen too many videos of Xue Fei yet). Maybe it's the hair as well.

I've never seen WCT's grip before. That's basically my grip I use to use when I would twiddle with my cpen.

Certainly if I used that grip now, I'd get fewer finger balls when I hit my RPB shot. But then I think I'd missing the feeling and power I get from a fingers almost extended more traditional approach on the FH.

Plus I like the more traditional grip on serving. I don't know. It's hard to explain but I feel like I have a better grip on the paddle with my fingers almost extended on the RPB side so I'm better able to rip that paddle through my pendulum motion in serving. ie - more spin. IDK. Probably just a me thing.

Hmm well since I cut my middle finger, for the next week or two I'll have to play with the Xu Xin straight fingers grip (well, or shakehand). It is awesome for forehands. And actually, I don't lose as much space on the backhand rubber as I thought. Wrist isn't as flexible, but that's encouragement to use my forearm more. So we'll see.

Xu Xin actually serves with curled fingers, and then straightens them to play shots, much like a shakehand player!

my experimental blade

Ok, as promised I dug into my stash of table tennis goodies and took out the blade that I have been working on, converting from Cpen to Jpen. It is now kind of a Jpen/Cpen hybrid. I basically used my Nittaku Wolfeed as the die for the shape of the head. I used this blade because it is smaller than the other Jpen blades which I have which are both one-ply blades. So it was a more natural fit for the conversion.

The blade is very stiff, very hard and very solidly built. But it does flex when you swing hard and the ball goes off like it has been released from a catapult. It is 7 plies as the description says but is thinner than some 5-ply blades. It has a 3-4mm Cypress core with its grain running perpendicular to the handle, and 1/16" Birch mini-ply skins. That Birch mini-ply is incredibly hard which gives it that loud carbon sound when playing. It is literally a powerhouse blade.

It is significantly thinner than the blade (the Chinese Real) I have used for size comparison in the picture. It is quite fast, low throw and great for close to the table play with great blocks and pretty much no vibration. It is clearly not designed to be a looping blade but it can loop quite well with the right rubbers and the right technique.

As the image shows it is not a very large head. No longer than a Cpen head (while most Jpens are longer) because I had no way of making it longer. It is also narrower than a Cpen blade because of the sanding so this will make it very light, which I like. I know that the smaller head and the lighter weight will make it less powerful but it is quite fast and I can generate a LOT of power on my own so I am not too worried about that. Besides the first rubber I plan to try with this is a very safe choice (NOT!) A Tenergy 05 in with max sponge!

It is almost complete. A very small amount of sanding and shaping is left. I want to sand the index wings (shoulders ) down a bit to make it a bit more Jpen-esque. The sanding does take a bit of time though because I am doing all of this by hand using files and sand paper. And I don't want to sand too much and then regret it.

The piece of wood that I added to the part of the handle where the finger curls around was cut by a friend who has more equipment. Then I used wood glue to stick it on and then sanded it down a bit more using my tools so that it is perfectly flush with the original handle. If I painted it over, you could never tell that it was added later.

It was/is a fun experiment and I am going to finish it now. Then I will stick a rubber on and see how it goes. I actually plan to use a number of different rubbers apart from the Tenergy 05 (which I have two of in max thickness.) As I said, it is an experiment so I want to try it with all sorts of rubbers. Euro, Chinese Tacky, everything!

I just hope that I have not ruined the blade in any way when it comes to blade physics and mechanics. I don’t think I have but I am no expert and I would hate to have destroyed such a beautiful blade. Would love to read your comments guys.

Looking forward to how it plays. Too bad you didn't refresh your memory of how the blade plays prior to chopping it.


On serving - I serve with fingertips touching the back of the blade and felt that you either have to do scoopy style wang hao serves (which I typically do - very easy to do spin/nospin with the same action) or hang on with the index finger and do a jpen style serve.

Lastly on wristy shots (aimed at hillwalker) - I don't know how good your rpb/your general level, but I strongly suggest you learn with a wang hao/ma lin style minimal wrist rpb first, then add wrist later. Using the wrist straight away may give you stability issues

silver said:

Lastly on wristy shots (aimed at hillwalker) - I don't know how good your rpb/your general level, but I strongly suggest you learn with a wang hao/ma lin style minimal wrist rpb first, then add wrist later. Using the wrist straight away may give you stability issues

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Thanks. I am still a beginner really, but my backhand is good for my level - I've been complimented by good players at my club. I try really hard to swing with my forearm and hips, and not my wrist or shoulder.

Hey guys,

Here's a video from a recent practice. Any tips?

OldschoolPenholder said:

That's awesome work Ranger-man in adding that piece of wood to convert your C-Pen to J-pen-like!!

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Thanks OSPH. With most commercial Cpen blades the handles don't end flush with the blade when they taper down. There is this tiny 1-2mm ridge right at the end where the finger gets a bit of a foothold ( fingerhold? ). So that usually suffices, at least for me since I do use that ridge for grip.

The BBC blade handle tapered until it was flush with the blade and I found it really annoying and difficult to hold. This is why I got the idea to begin with. I did not start out with the idea of converting it into a Jpen, which is why the piece of wood I added is not bigger. It was only later that I decided to sand down the blade as well.

Personally I feel this could be something I might do with all my Cpen plades, minus the sanding.

And Silver, I just have the review I wrote many years ago to fall back on as to how the blade played the first time around. If the sweet spot is altered in a big way I am sure I will notice and that will pretty much mean no more sanding of Cpen blades.

I feel I will be left with a smaller sweet spot, true, but not necessarily so small that it becomes ineffective. One can hope.

So the last couple of days I've been practicing playing simple RPB shots slight more off to the right (remember I'm left handed) of my body.

I've talked about in the past the need to stand somewhat more middle of the table to cover really wide serves to my FH from right handers serving from their back corner. That however opens up a down the line serves to my RPB side that I have to reach more over on than what I'm use to.

It dawned on my that in my practice & play, I've only ever played RPB shots on balls directly to my body. Anything further over to my right, my backhand side, I've traditionally playing TPB. So i'm trying to work on that.

Granted you should move into place and more in balance to play shots but every now & then that happens. So I'm getting use to the feel. Not as difficult as I think i've made it out to be in my head. Hitting with a buddy over lunch. Will see how it goes.

OldschoolPenholder said:

Last night, hit with my friend who is a coach. He has repeatedly mentioned to me aspects of my strokes to tweak. As I'm new to RPB and after a 30+ yrs break from the game, one of the aspects I need to work on the most for any stroke is my timing and when to hit the ball.

As I'm working on various aspects all at once (timing, stroke, new blade, new rubber, new grip), making it a little difficult to adjust, I'm concentrating mostly on timing.

As RPB is new to me, a few weeks ago, my friend suggested I start with the RPB basic strokes instead of learn/practice RPB spinning. Continued to work on my RPB flat hit. My timing has gotten better. Getting a little consistency in my shots, however, my friend fed me multiball at a slow pace and after my return he fed me another ball and so on. I then hit with a partner who is new to TT, only had 3 lessons. Not bad for a total beginner. I worked my RPB block mostly and sometimes RPB punch with her.

Slowly but surely, 'getting' RPB... never would've imagined 3 yrs ago when I got back into TT after the very long break that i would embrace RPB.

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Way to go OSPH. This is great progress. I don't think I know of anyone else who has managed to add RPB to their arsenal like this. And this made me think that it is perhaps the best thing to work on RPB blocks as the first step. I mean think about it, the traditional penhold block is the basic stroke that we keep falling back to because of muscle memory and instinct. If you can replace that older instinct with the instinct to do RPB block, the rest will just fall into place!

As they say, we gotta unlearn before we can learn.

IMO you won't lose the feeling of flat hits , the feeling for spinning is much more subtle and easier to lose ... flat hit feelings remain.