Just curious how many Penholders are on TTD?

This user has no status.
This user has no status.
Well-Known Member
Jul 2018
1,011
554
1,962
Hi Suds,

Just curious, care you using long pips RPB or just twiddling with it?

Right now my "primary" setup is single sided only. Do you think its worthwhile to have LPs just for the occasional retrieval shot or are you actually training with it? Also, how are you coping with the backside finger pain pressing on pips? I'm using a square sponge at the moment.

I practiced RPB for 2 years then gave up. Every time I try to pick it up again, I give up within a few months.
 
This user has no status.
This user has no status.
Active Member
Aug 2016
869
1,202
2,883
Hi Suds,

Just curious, care you using long pips RPB or just twiddling with it?

Right now my "primary" setup is single sided only. Do you think its worthwhile to have LPs just for the occasional retrieval shot or are you actually training with it? Also, how are you coping with the backside finger pain pressing on pips? I'm using a square sponge at the moment.

I practiced RPB for 2 years then gave up. Every time I try to pick it up again, I give up within a few months.

Yeah i mix it up. For a long time I used Long pips with some combo of either short pips or inverted on the other side and would twiddle.

While I can twiddle and occasionally will bust it out for the tricky changeup, I largely play inverted on my FH, use inverted TPB, and Long pips for a RPB either chop or chop-block.

The reason for this is when you twiddle, you have to simply learn the feel of a lot more things. Inverted FH, Inverted RPB, LP FH, LP TPB, LP RPB, etc. On & on. Plus if I twiddle too much, I find I tend to play too passive. I have a good forehand and I largely want to hit inverted attacking shots on that side when given the opportunity. If I'm on the LPs on the FH, I'm almost forced to play that shot passively.

I can hit a nice looking inverted RPB but was never consistent with it and when a quick shot was fired at me, my brain cannot think to not go into the TPB block instead of RPB.

So yeah it depends. I read the opponent. If they struggle with the LPs, shots to my BH i'll chop and play the Long pips a lot. If the opponent has no troubles against Long pips, I'll play a more single singed traditional penholder style of game.

But I've always been a big fan of the idea that if you're a single sided penholder, you might as well throw a long pips on the back side for the occasional, tricky change-up. Cpen? Easy. Jpen? I'd get a 2-sided Jpen.

My fingers are use to the feeling of the pips but I have also tried finger sleeves with success as a shock absorber.
https://www.amazon.com/Sleeves-Arth...keywords=finger+sleeves&qid=1572447041&sr=8-7


PS - When I use to twiddle more often, i used a curled fingers approach. Made for fast twiddling. I now prefer the more traditional slightly curled fingers approach on the BH. I think the feeling is better that way and better control and power on the FH with the fingers entended.
 
Last edited:
This user has no status.
This user has no status.
Active Member
Aug 2016
869
1,202
2,883
I just dug out a sheet of 388d to try.

You must have Bruce Lee fingers, bare wood is less painful!

Ha. It takes a while. Seriously try the finger sleeves. I like them and will use them on an occasion. Glad I have them for sure. They're cheap & they work. A win win.

Oh yeah. Forgot to mention. Another thing I like about having a LP on the back side is that if you're like me and occasionally have a day where nothing you're hitting is landing. It's just an off day or match. Whatever. It's nice to have a backup plan and able to play more defensive or balanced. Almost modern defender style.

As penholders, we're kinda thought to attack, attack, attack. But what do you do if you're not a pro, can't play 4 hours a day and are subject to misses just like any other intermediate player? if you're simply not hitting your attacks, you're boned. Thus, I like this option.
 
Last edited:
This user has no status.
This user has no status.
Well-Known Member
Jul 2018
1,011
554
1,962
I started off playing TPB but i have changed to RPB a few years now. RPB is just more powerful and consistent to me and my backhand is no longer a weak spot my opponents can exploit.

Hi, are you RPB exclusive, or are you implementing it along with TPB? More powerful? Yes, but to say its no longer exploitable is a bit of an overstatement.

IMO, RPB will never come close to what a shakehand backhand can do. You also have a much bigger "switchover" zone than shakehand...Just to name 2.
 
  • Like
Reactions: OldschoolPenholder
This user has no status.
This user has no status.
Well-Known Member
Oct 2016
1,883
1,583
3,807
I Do not agree. RPB Will proably not be as safe because you have less rubber to hit due to the angle. But at the same time you are great at Third balls over the table because of the angle. Better than many with shakehand in my opinion. So i think RPB not really have to be less good than shakehand baxkhand.

When i play penhold for fun i basically have better backhand loop than with shakehand haha. Feels very natural to me because of the closed angle.
 
  • Like
Reactions: OldschoolPenholder
This user has no status.
This user has no status.
Active Member
Aug 2016
869
1,202
2,883
I only use TPB for lobbing now. I have almost completely switched to RPB. I think RPB still might not be as powerful as shakehand backhand but with practise, it can become a weapon too.

+1

For sure. To anybody 1st picking up penhold, I'd certainly say "learn RPB as your primary BH". I'd venture to say learn how to push with it (chen bowen do it quite often) just so you don't have any hesitation (TPB or RPB) which was my main sticking point.

Thankfully on the intermediate to very good side, you can still play a good game of TT with TPB. But yeah if given the choice or if you're learning 1st time? Go RPB easy.

Might not quite be on the same level as a shakehanders BH but at this point there have been plenty of penholders having shown you can be world-class with a good RPB.
 
  • Like
Reactions: OldschoolPenholder
says Footwork footwork footwork
+1 here too, I started off with RPB and only use TBH for lobbing or when messing around.

The only times I really see TBH relevant for my game is in a lobbing situation or a jammed situation inside armpit forehand quick block. But for me, it takes longer to switch my grip, than to actually move for the back-arching forehand chicken wing block or completely switch to reverse side and slight body adjustment.

For blocking RPB is superior in my game to TBH. This also probably is because I’m not very tall or lanky.

As I initially started off as a shakehander (I was backhand dominant), I find my RPB to be mostly stronger in terms of attacking and blocking. I think over the table attacks like flicks may be easier for shakehander, although I have absolutely no problem doing them as a RPB’er. I would like to say it’s my bread and butter, but that’s just me dreaming...




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
  • Like
Reactions: OldschoolPenholder
This user has no status.
This user has no status.
Active Member
Aug 2016
869
1,202
2,883
+1 here too, I started off with RPB and only use TBH for lobbing or when messing around.

The only times I really see TBH relevant for my game is in a lobbing situation or a jammed situation inside armpit forehand quick block. But for me, it takes longer to switch my grip, than to actually move for the back-arching forehand chicken wing block or completely switch to reverse side and slight body adjustment.

For blocking RPB is superior in my game to TBH. This also probably is because I’m not very tall or lanky.

As I initially started off as a shakehander (I was backhand dominant), I find my RPB to be mostly stronger in terms of attacking and blocking. I think over the table attacks like flicks may be easier for shakehander, although I have absolutely no problem doing them as a RPB’er. I would like to say it’s my bread and butter, but that’s just me dreaming...

Good point about the armpit area. That is best for TPB over an awkward RPB there.

I think that has been the thing that has annoyed me (i probably make a bigger deal than it probably is). The indecision. If I play my best and play smart, for me when playing the BH it'd be wise to play TPB 80% of the time saving that other 20% when I have more time and really want to attack a ball.

But there's a part of me that wishes I could learn to play RPB almost exclusively but I can never seem to get there. Blocking, among other things just comes more naturally to what I was raised with and that's TPB.
 
says Footwork footwork footwork
Good point about the armpit area. That is best for TPB over an awkward RPB there.

I think that has been the thing that has annoyed me (i probably make a bigger deal than it probably is). The indecision. If I play my best and play smart, for me when playing the BH it'd be wise to play TPB 80% of the time saving that other 20% when I have more time and really want to attack a ball.

But there's a part of me that wishes I could learn to play RPB almost exclusively but I can never seem to get there. Blocking, among other things just comes more naturally to what I was raised with and that's TPB.

It’s funny you mention the decision aspect of TPB vs. RPB, that’s been the biggest issue for me as I’ve tried to pick it (TPB) up for those seldom cases my game. The thing is, I’m quite aggressive and tend to attack on the BH, so it’s my go to (RPB).

It all boils down what is engraved into your brain through repetition. In our cases, quite the opposite. I wonder if Xu Xin ever has those moments of indecision?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
This user has no status.
This user has no status.
Active Member
Aug 2016
869
1,202
2,883
I started playing Jpen years ago. Learned TPB. Then about 4-5 years ago, I switched to CPen in an attempt to learn RPB and/or twiddle with pips.

I've developed a very spin oriented game. Oddly enough, I felt that I would spin it better with CPen but the power & pure hitting was better with Jpen.

Fast forward to now and over the last 6 or so months, I've felt that my pure topspin to topspin game and my smashing game really just sucks. I'm not fast enough and smashing lobs I tend to make errors. Given smashing is a bigger part of the game in this 40+ era, I've been itching to try a new blade setup.

I like my blade. I like it a lot. But it's a high flex, control spin oriented blade. It doesn't have a lot of pop.

For some time I've eyed those 2 sided Jpens. Not sure if I should jump back in that realm, I was feeling crazy last night and did this Frankenstein mod.

Untitled-2.jpg

I had my first hit with a buddy at work today. He's a newer player who plays purely pips. Likes to hit. Not spin. If you want practice in learning how to spin up no-spin balls, play him. You'll get plenty of opportunities. I normally beat him but one consistent occurrence is I feel I'll miss too many smashes when given the opportunity.

Played him today with the new Frankenstein blade. I think it's a mental block thing for me but wow what a different in regards to pure hitting & smashing. Reminded me of those good ole Jpen days. A lot more hitting through the ball on high balls. They were fast & point enders. More important than anything, I was consistent.

It's too early to say done deal on this but I'll rock this blade for some time yet. if I continue to like it, I'll probably look into something a little more refined like this sexy beast.

Nittaku
Revofusion 8.5 MF R
cache.php
 
  • Like
Reactions: OldschoolPenholder
says former JPEN, now CPEN
says former JPEN, now CPEN
Member
Aug 2019
218
115
443
did any part of your game that you usually play suffer when you did the cork modification?

also that is a really sexy blade indeed

just curious, why are you considering the square-round version and not the square version? if you're looking for more power in smashes, wouldn't the square revofusion help in this aspect?
 
Last edited:
This user has no status.
This user has no status.
Active Member
Aug 2016
869
1,202
2,883
did any part of your game that you usually play suffer when you did the cork modification?

also that is a really sexy blade indeed

just curious, why are you considering the square-round version and not the square version? if you're looking for more power in smashes, wouldn't the square revofusion help in this aspect?

You're smart. Think of the little things.

So yes you're right. The square, elongated head for sure would offer more power. But because those blades are even narrower, with my pips play on the other side, the occasional RPB chop and for some reason after all these years I'll occasionally have a finger ball which makes me either question my eyes or natural eye-hand coordination, I think it's best I play it safe with the larger surface area and thus the round shaped head.

So I need more time vs more opponents but here's what I'm thinking for me personally how some things will be different.

- TPB, I don't know if it's the added weight or the freedom to swing more freely on the TPB but that block felt more accurate, more controllable and was flat out better. I don't know why. But TPB in just about every aspect is better for me when I have that hook for my index finger. Perhaps it's the more secure grip. Not sure.

- FH, my bread & butter shot worried me for the first 5 minutes of hitting with him. I initially thought "Oh no. This might have been a BIG mistake". So as I mentioned earlier, I'm a spin based FH penholder. Perhaps too much spin & not enough into the ball. Anyways, I usually keep a relatively loose index finger around my CPens. I like the paddle angle flexibility it gave me. Depending on shot I wanted, I could easily adjust the angle of the blade. But long story short, I rarely if ever hooked my index finger tight around the front side like you would in a Jpen.

So my first few hits on the FH felt a little awkward. With my finger firmly around that nub, the angle of the paddle I suppose is more open than what I'm use to. But after 10 or so minutes, I started to adjust. Hitting into the ball felt very natural and easy on those high kill balls. On low balls that I might spin up, I found that there's no rule saying I had to keep that tight grip 100% of the time. So maybe I'd let up pressure on the index finger slightly (while pushing down a little with my thumb to close that angle) and do my normal side-spin shots when needed. Really it's just and adjustment that once I fully get use to it, will probably feel normal to me.

My next hit with it against a better player will be tomorrow over lunch. I'll report back if I'm still liking it.

_______________________


PS - At this moment, if I'm playing dual inverted or was looking to work the RPB more, I think I prefer Cpen there. My natural grip and the good grip my fingers get on the RPB side with inverted rubber feels very secure & natural.

If I'm playing TPB (which if me is better than my RPB consistency wise. Not in power or spin naturally) and something weird on the back-side like some long pips or something, I think I prefer a blade with that Jpen style hook for my index finger.
 
Last edited:
This user has no status.
This user has no status.
Well-Known Member
Aug 2016
1,841
2,808
13,658
Hello PHers!

Been busy and haven't posted in ages. Lots to catch up on in this thread.

Joined a new club and was able to video myself ... still a member of my old club which is not the best to video.

I still have a lot to work on... enjoying the journey. Lost 30 lbs in 3 yrs. Need to lose more. I am a bit more mobile than I used to be. Working on footwork more. There was a period of 6 months to a year when I had zero confidence in my FH loop. During that time I concentrated heavily on practicing RPB and neglected my FH loop.

These videos were recorded after I had played about 90mins already outside of this room. Already a bit fatigued.

Using old Butterfly Taksim blade, Donic Bluefire FH, and Xiom Vega Pro RPB

For a good laugh at me :






Very truly yours in TT,

~osph
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: jbvttcc
says former JPEN, now CPEN
says former JPEN, now CPEN
Member
Aug 2019
218
115
443
You're smart. Think of the little things.

So yes you're right. The square, elongated head for sure would offer more power. But because those blades are even narrower, with my pips play on the other side, the occasional RPB chop and for some reason after all these years I'll occasionally have a finger ball which makes me either question my eyes or natural eye-hand coordination, I think it's best I play it safe with the larger surface area and thus the round shaped head.

So I need more time vs more opponents but here's what I'm thinking for me personally how some things will be different.

- TPB, I don't know if it's the added weight or the freedom to swing more freely on the TPB but that block felt more accurate, more controllable and was flat out better. I don't know why. But TPB in just about every aspect is better for me when I have that hook for my index finger. Perhaps it's the more secure grip. Not sure.

- FH, my bread & butter shot worried me for the first 5 minutes of hitting with him. I initially thought "Oh no. This might have been a BIG mistake". So as I mentioned earlier, I'm a spin based FH penholder. Perhaps too much spin & not enough into the ball. Anyways, I usually keep a relatively loose index finger around my CPens. I like the paddle angle flexibility it gave me. Depending on shot I wanted, I could easily adjust the angle of the blade. But long story short, I rarely if ever hooked my index finger tight around the front side like you would in a Jpen.

So my first few hits on the FH felt a little awkward. With my finger firmly around that nub, the angle of the paddle I suppose is more open than what I'm use to. But after 10 or so minutes, I started to adjust. Hitting into the ball felt very natural and easy on those high kill balls. On low balls that I might spin up, I found that there's no rule saying I had to keep that tight grip 100% of the time. So maybe I'd let up pressure on the index finger slightly (while pushing down a little with my thumb to close that angle) and do my normal side-spin shots when needed. Really it's just and adjustment that once I fully get use to it, will probably feel normal to me.

My next hit with it against a better player will be tomorrow over lunch. I'll report back if I'm still liking it.

_______________________


PS - At this moment, if I'm playing dual inverted or was looking to work the RPB more, I think I prefer Cpen there. My natural grip and the good grip my fingers get on the RPB side with inverted rubber feels very secure & natural.

If I'm playing TPB (which if me is better than my RPB consistency wise. Not in power or spin naturally) and something weird on the back-side like some long pips or something, I think I prefer a blade with that Jpen style hook for my index finger.

i am not really smart but ill take that compliment ;)

its great to see that your surgery on your cpen turned out to be successful and it is also very interesting to hear your thoughts on the shape of the blade

ill be waiting for your report

at the same time ive been thinking of trying out RPB with a jpen by purchasing a yinhe 989 (a two-sided jpen twiddling blade) and modifying it extensively just for RPB only

at the same time theres a really great offer on a nittaku rorin

rorin.jpg


its hard to choose what to pick but i think ill go with the rorin, a great deal isnt a permanent one :)
 
Last edited:
This user has no status.
This user has no status.
Active Member
Aug 2016
869
1,202
2,883

OSPH!

I think your FH technique & spin looks good my man.

The type of topspining you're doing largely through this video similar to the one at 1:34 kinda demonstrates what I'm talking about & working with.

My FH pretty much always looks like the spin versions you're doing. But then the shot just after that at 1:35. That slap shot on a high ball. That is for sure a different stroke and a necessary one to know in today's game IMO. That's the one I struggle with for some reason with cpen. But jpen, in my head, I find it much easier to do that slap/kill shot. IDK.

Nice video. will check out the others now.

BTW. what blade you using? That a jpen? head looks square.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: OldschoolPenholder
This user has no status.
This user has no status.
Active Member
Aug 2016
869
1,202
2,883
its hard to choose what to pick but i think ill go with the rorin, a great deal isnt a permanent one :)

That is true.

I've owned two Nitaku Jpens and both I would say were great blades as far as performance & quality.

One of them was the Nittaku Airuline 8.8 and the other I swear I can't remember. But yeah. Great quality blades.
 
Top