Just curious how many Penholders are on TTD?

suds79 said:

That is true.

I've owned two Nitaku Jpens and both I would say were great blades as far as performance & quality.

One of them was the Nittaku Airuline 8.8 and the other I swear I can't remember. But yeah. Great quality blades.

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nittaku blades truly have remarkable quality, i can attest to that

i have a nittaku jpen myself too. nittaku trefire, a 3-ply hinoki blade. it plays like a charm and it smells sorta like cinnamon. the only nitpicks i have for it is that the cork is burled and can be quite slippery.

after getting the rorin, all thats left on my mind is to find rubber for it. it will be quite difficult to find a rubber that gels well with hinoki.

OldschoolPenholder said:

The modern game is to spin the ball. I find it hard to spin high balls. I sometimes hit with a coach who is trying to get me to spin the ball more. I have to fight muscle memory of slap/smash/flat hit to loop/spin more.

Perhaps due to my short pips period, I am more of smasher/slapper than a looper. I do not know how to describe it other than my FH smash is a flat hit unlike when I loop. Comes at opponent faster... add to the flat hit smash, what I call the quick attack, smashing the ball right off the bounce to quicken the tempo/rhythm and i have a decent smashing game.

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I certainly think there's a shift from the celluloid days to now the plastic ball. I believe (and opinions are like armpits. Everybody has then and they all stink ) that the celluloid ball was ALL about spin and the notion was to spin everything. That worked for me as a spin based player.

But having seen pros develop this punchy BH (think Harimoto and others) they they'll use sometimes and that locally I've seen several players, from intermediate to very good, utilize this slappy smash on high balls that most certainly is a different stroke done on purpose from the normal spin one, I'm not so sure it's spin everything anymore.

I suppose to depends on the player. As I say that in how I see slappy smashes more in today's game, I can always reference Xu Xin who still from what I've seen spins everything. I've never seen him slap a high ball smash type. So I guess it's still about what works for the individual player.

I'm keeping that in mind more as it's something Ryu mentioned in this training video I found just the other day. Where he said "Everyone has different form. My style is not the right answer." and Dan when he interviewed "Kreanga in one of this latest videos, he said (paraphrasing) "I can teach you BH but everybody is different. I can't teach you to have my exact backhand... etc" again cementing the idea in my head that everybody's technique is slightly different. I suppose you have to use what works for you.

Hit with a more experienced partner over lunch today. Same thing, which is nice.

He made a comment how I seem more consistent on the BH. I don't know if it's a placebo effect or something with just me or the fact that I legitimately feel the blade slips slightly less and I have better control when blocking & swinging with it but it was better today.

So for me when it comes to TPB, Having a grip for my forefinger is where it's at.

OldschoolPenholder said:

Hello PHers!

Been busy and haven't posted in ages. Lots to catch up on in this thread.

Joined a new club and was able to video myself ... still a member of my old club which is not the best to video.

I still have a lot to work on... enjoying the journey. Lost 30 lbs in 3 yrs. Need to lose more. I am a bit more mobile than I used to be. Working on footwork more. There was a period of 6 months to a year when I had zero confidence in my FH loop. During that time I concentrated heavily on practicing RPB and neglected my FH loop.

These videos were recorded after I had played about 90mins already outside of this room. Already a bit fatigued.

Using old Butterfly Taksim blade, Donic Bluefire FH, and Xiom Vega Pro RPB

For a good laugh at me :

Very truly yours in TT,

~osph

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Nice clicking sound on your FH loop. Is this your basement? If so you are very lucky to have a place to practice

OldschoolPenholder said:

Bruce Lee had a saying, "Absorb what is useful, reject what is useless, and add what is specifically your own."

The flat hit is in my muscle memory ... the coach that I mentioned is trying to get me to spin the ball more even on high balls. I explained to him like a hitter in baseball cannot lay off the high fastball ... I cannot override my muscle memory sometimes on high balls and will flat hit smash and NOT spin those balls. When he lobs to me, expecting me to spin, I sometimes smash and can hear him under his breath go "Whoa!" not expecting the speed and power coming from me.

Although I am trying to improve and evolve my game, it would be silly to deny one of my strongest tools, the smash.

Coincidentally a woman coach whom I sometimes have hit with has tried to get me to spin on my basic fh stroke. But my basic fh stroke has pretty much been a flat hit.

Most definitely use what works for you, silly to force you to be a chopper, when you are an offensive player. You get the point (pun intended!)

Just like my muscle memory is a flat hitter, it is also a sidespin looper. Working on my topspin loop as well as spinning the ball more lol

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Yeah I agree. You have a built-in style that you are comfortable with. At the amateur level many styles can flourish. We don't have to follow the pro. But with the newer ball hitters are gaining more advantages anyway

OldschoolPenholder said:

Regarding TPB:

Perhaps it is a mental block for me, but I cannot TPB well anymore once I embraced RPB as well as using a 1980s era Butterfly Taksim as my primary blade. It has a chunky rectangular handle compared to the current rounded. handles. Could also be the Donic Bluefire rubber I'm using... 9r it could all be un my head lol

I miss my TPB punch, especially after a rocket serve

Here is an old video before I started on learning RPB

At some point I may switch blades and will see if I can get my TPB block and punch back.

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Checked out your last video of RPB. Punch & fast. Seems to me you have blocking & hitting with that down pat. If I were you, I'd keep with that. I mean that's a good RPB.

Even thought I'm a primarily TPB player, that's just my style. If I could simply pick my style, I'd do what you're doing and use the RPB primarily.

But I thought your RPB looked good. Would be curious sometime to see a video of you practicing a flip with it vs say short serves. Do you have that shot?

OldschoolPenholder said:

Thank you suds for your kind words. In practice I feel confident of my rpb flat hit. My rpb block is decent... surprised a 2000+ SH player that has a powerful BH smash that I was able to block quite a few of his smashes consecutively.

What I don't quite have down yet is the punch after a rocket serve. Feel TPB punch is better for that as I do not have to change the racket orientation after the serve like I have to for a rpb punch.

Also my rpb spin is inconsistent. Needs more work.

Vs short serves, I have not even begun training those in earnest, although I have the concept in my mind after a coach showed me the basics. Just need to keep drilling it.

I will try it next week when i go back to the new.club.

Weird thing is the RPB flat hit seems easy for me. I spent 6 to 8 months playing only SH BH instead of just RPBing... quite a few saw my SH BH and said I should convert to SH ... never! lol

Time well spent? May or may not be but I credit my RPB flat hit to learning SH BH.

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It’s cool you have a RPB flat hit! My RPB is quite spinny but I’m working on having more of a drive/hit option also. My feeling is a fast flat Bh hit is tougher to deal with in most situations compared to a typical spinny Bh. Especially when you’re going mid to far table.

And to comment on SH BH, that’s how I started playing in the beginning, Shake hand and only backhands. So my SH BH isn’t bad. I couldn’t grasp the forehand until I switched to penhold, thus RPB felt quite natural for me.


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I must have been in a weird mood last night. So there's this cadet kid who always challenges me and is getting better & better every day. (he should. he plays like 6 days a week). Anyways, I use to always beat him and of recent it's 50/50 if I win or lose. No real surprise there.

But last night I feeling weird decided to play him with my inverted/Long pip blade. That's not the weird part as I usually play the LPs on RPB for the occasional RPB chop but largely play a standard single wing inverted penholder style with TPB.

Anyways, I decided to play the LPs on my FH primarily with inverted on the RPB.

It's one thing to win a game. That always feels good but it's another when you can get the opponent to give up mentally. That's what happened as it's been a while since I've 3-0'd him that easily. Pure matchup thing he wasn't use to for sure.

Anyways. Here's the fun and weird shots with this style:
- to BH?
- - RPB inverted attack, or RPB inverted push, or TPB LP chop-block (vs topspin), or TPB LP swipe (vs backspin)

- to FH?
- - LP chop-block (vs topspin), or TPB LP swipe (vs backspin), LP cautious topspin attack stroke vs topspin (this is a require good feel shot), or inverted RPF with invereted (a dead sexy shot when you pull it off and I hit 5-8 of these last night).

Essentially it was what this girl was playing in this video to give you an idea.
Note - She does the RPF (reverse penhold forehand) at 2:35 in the video if you weren't following what I was talking about earlier.

I might try to get some video soon just for kicks.

Hi, a technical question for those who use TPB. How do you approach very low spinny topspins to the backhand? The ones that look like they are almost bouncing below net height but not enough energy to block back with any force.

Reflecting on the past few games, I wasn't able to get enough racket speed from a TPB counter-loop and found it hard to get the right angle for a reinforced side-swipe that doesn't bounce high.

Would love some inspiration on how to play more actively/hard against these shots.

Second question is how do you hold the racket to close down angle on very wide backhands? Right now I have a moderately wide pinch with Xu Xin like extended fingers and both knucles of the middle finger in contact for backhand. Great support for close to the body, but maybe this is hurting my angles?

Can you send a pic of your grip? A video would also be good to analyze.


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lasta said:

Hi, a technical question for those who use TPB. How do you approach very low spinny topspins to the backhand? The ones that look like they are almost bouncing below net height but not enough energy to block back with any force.

Reflecting on the past few games, I wasn't able to get enough racket speed from a TPB counter-loop and found it hard to get the right angle for a reinforced side-swipe that doesn't bounce high.

Would love some inspiration on how to play more actively/hard against these shots.

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I'm not sure if you mean low spin topsins As in almost dead or when you talk about them being low you mentioned vs net height so I'm thinking you mean low bouncing topspins to your BH.

In either case, I'll address kinda overall what I try to do. Take this with a grain of salt as I'm left handed and given I play mostly righties, points play out differently for me than I assume they do for you. (assuming you're right handed).

But if I have an incoming low topspin ball to my TPB, I have to be careful not to block it with my normal angle as that ball can go into the net quite easily. Also, say I'm playing a topspin ball that's low in height. As in it's not that much, if at all above the net. Kinda in both cases I have the same mindset.

I'm looking to pretty much angle block that ball in a way that works out for me. I accept that I will not be able to hit all that of an agressive or fast shot back. But because I'm left handed and when I largely do TPB shots I'm close at the table, it's all about angles. I'll block cross-court wide to their FH. If they get that back then I block down the line. Very much like you see He Zhi Wen do. But for me if it can't be about power, it's about angle and placement.

lasta said:

Second question is how do you hold the racket to close down angle on very wide backhands? Right now I have a moderately wide pinch with Xu Xin like extended fingers and both knucles of the middle finger in contact for backhand. Great support for close to the body, but maybe this is hurting my angles?

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I don' actively think about this but I suppose I never really stand in a position to where I could have a really wide shot go to my TPB to where I can't handle that. I'd much rather cover that more and dare someone to hit it to my wide FH where I can then employ a side/top FH loop.

Now I won't say that's never happened to where I got caught with a ball really wide to my BH and I can barely reach it. That almost sounds like a reach your paddle out there and just try to save the point situation, lob it back on the table and step back. You might have to get into the Xu Xin like lobbing game waiting for your moment hit a FH loop to get back in.

If me personally because I also have a LP on my RPB side, if I'm really out of position and need to buy time to get back into position, I'll often here pull out a RPB chop with the LPs. The slow backspinning ball to them allows me time to get back into position. Theoretically, the same could be done with inverted I suppose. It's just a lot easier with LPs.

Are you a single sided only penholder?

Hi Suds,

Thanks for the detailed reply. I guess I just need more patience. I'm of the mentality that everything you do should be to set up a return high enough to smash. I can get frustrated when a good allround play with better touch gives me tempting but hard to attack balls on the backhand.

About pt 2, yes, something just past the off-hand shoulder width. I find it very hard to close the angle there.

Also, yes, single side short pips.

lasta said:

Hi Suds,

Thanks for the detailed reply. I guess I just need more patience. I'm of the mentality that everything you do should be to set up a return high enough to smash. I can get frustrated when a good allround play with better touch gives me tempting but hard to attack balls on the backhand.

About pt 2, yes, something just past the off-hand shoulder width. I find it very hard to close the angle there.

Also, yes, single side short pips.

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Single sided SPs. Old-school. I like it.

So i'm generalizing a bit here but here's my take on single sided penholders. This is an athlete's position IMO. I think single sided penholders when they are young should largely play like RSM did when he was in his early 20s running around everything and killing people with his monster FH. In a way I'm also saying there shouldn't be too many times at all where they're caught out of position having to play a wide BH.

But that being said, try to find some of your favorite penholders of yester year when they're much, much older. They're still amazing but have changed their game considerably.

Take this video of Chen Longcan from 2007. Granted still celluloid days but note how much more balanced & controlled he is compared to when he was young. There are a lot of TPBs where he pushes and or just directional blocks. He's not all out attacking everything like he would when he was younger. Simply can't do that anymore.

If I had a dollar for every time I've seen an old-timer penholder passing through town come to club who plays that TPB and is basically a brick wall on that side. So consistent. Ball always coming back and then they have their attacking FH... I'm telling you. Having a big FH and a consistent BH that's like a directional placement return board can be really hard to deal with on the intermediate level IMO.