Just curious how many Penholders are on TTD?

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Since i got back to training and i filmed my training session a little bit. I just realised how bad im %(. So the question is: is there any penhold coaches? i have some questions about wrist, arm, finger position and so on . HALP)

ps . i dont want to go back to SH :mad:
 
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I'm a part time Table Tennis coach at a local TT Club here in Sweden.


A few weeks ago a kid originally from China started to play during one of the practice sessions where I coach. The thing is, he plays penhold with RPB. Since then I have tried to play some penhold and been watching others who play penhold and so on, to help him get better. He really wants to get better and it is quite the challenge. As you can imagine, some of the stuff I talk about can't be directly transferred to PH from SH.


I find it hard to play penhold, but it is very interesting. Penhold is fun! :)
I will definitely play and practice more. I've tried RPB but I it's to hard to be consistent. I usually just push block with my BH.

Mostly my penhold play comes down to serve and attack to this point. But as I improve that will probably change.

Very relevant to the question I was about to ask
surely a player wishing to play ph would need coaching from a coach who also plays ph??

the mechanics appear so different to a sh player ??
 
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Hey, I have a question. I have a decent RPB, though, it feels like it depends on the day, sometimes I get almost everything (80%+), sometimes I just can't make it work. (less than 50% success).
So, when I go bh, I most often by reflex go Traditional PH bh.
But I want it to be, so that, I by reflex go RPB.
Which made me think, what if I temporary change to shakehand, to emphasize on using bh and bh/fh transition for X amount of time. Then go back to penhold and try to keep the bh trend.
Though that's more or less an untested hypothesis.

Cons/pro's, thoughts or any experience on this? or other suggestions?
 
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Hey, I have a question. I have a decent RPB, though, it feels like it depends on the day, sometimes I get almost everything (80%+), sometimes I just can't make it work. (less than 50% success).
So, when I go bh, I most often by reflex go Traditional PH bh.
But I want it to be, so that, I by reflex go RPB.
Which made me think, what if I temporary change to shakehand, to emphasize on using bh and bh/fh transition for X amount of time. Then go back to penhold and try to keep the bh trend.
Though that's more or less an untested hypothesis.

Cons/pro's, thoughts or any experience on this? or other suggestions?
This is an interesting question, because I have struggled similarly. I would never say
my RPB gets to 80%+ (!) but it has gradually become part of my game. Caveat, I am not a high level player.
So for what it is worth, my experience is that at first I could only attain
consistency in practice, mostly using as serve return and rarely other set-up type shots. Now it appears in real matches, but TPB is still dominant. Now, at least two years into trying to transition, I find I can return serve, handle wide out backhands and certain kill shots, but repeated attack to my backhand will always revert to my using TBH. But I think all this leads to another question: Whywould one want to be RPB dominant if one can play a reasonably blend? For me the RPB is either a special use or surprise stroke that can hopefully win me a couple points per game. It would seem messing around with a shakehand switch is inviting problems rather than solving them.
 
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Hey, I have a question. I have a decent RPB, though, it feels like it depends on the day, sometimes I get almost everything (80%+), sometimes I just can't make it work. (less than 50% success).
So, when I go bh, I most often by reflex go Traditional PH bh.
But I want it to be, so that, I by reflex go RPB.
Which made me think, what if I temporary change to shakehand, to emphasize on using bh and bh/fh transition for X amount of time. Then go back to penhold and try to keep the bh trend.
Though that's more or less an untested hypothesis.

Cons/pro's, thoughts or any experience on this? or other suggestions?
I think you should stick with PH. switching between grips wont make it work, because TT is a technique based sport. So you have to practice and practice over and over again. By technique i also mean what you have to improve your muscle memory. My advice will be: you dont have to practice 1..x rpb topspins for 1 session, you have to balance your exercises. Just make 1 rpb 1fh, then switch for expamle 1 fh 2 rpb from left side of the table and so on. Do it slowly and you have to understand whats going on and WHY(!) you r doing this . But yes, sometimes you have to focus only on 1 stroke (multiball session is the best way). Try to focus on ur body,your feet, try to make a perfect rpb stroke. Slow down the tempo if needed. Thats just my 2 cents. hope u get my point (SORI BAD ENGRISH HERE:))
 
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Yeah, that's probably the best, even if I'd be doing it I should be using the same type of blade combo, which is also something I'd have to fix unless I'd want to use PH blade with SH.
Focusing on using RPB more often / in drills / or/and whenever possible for a while is probably a better choice yes.

I just thought of this because, I figured whenever I try shakehand, now and then, I usually have the bad habit of trying to twist my fh side on the bh (TP style in SH) which works poorly... that's why I considered using shakehand to attempt to opposite effect on penhold.
Though, it's also a psychological factor that needs to be worked with so it's not even certain it had worked on the long run, because you (or I) feel inferior on the RPB your body wants naturally to step over, or go TP instead. So I think it's about somehow re-programming away that fear factor.
Because most often when I use RPB, I've decided it beforehand.. whenever I change to RPB during a rally without mental preparation it always feels somehow resistant, slightly delayed and most often one way or another fails the stroke. So annoying:x

I just want to have a ninja Wang Hao precision + Wong Chun Ting power, with a dash of Xu Xin sidespin RPB, is that too much to ask for. :confused:

But yeah, Thanks for all the replies! :)
 
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Yeah, that's probably the best, even if I'd be doing it I should be using the same type of blade combo, which is also something I'd have to fix unless I'd want to use PH blade with SH.
Focusing on using RPB more often / in drills / or/and whenever possible for a while is probably a better choice yes.

I just thought of this because, I figured whenever I try shakehand, now and then, I usually have the bad habit of trying to twist my fh side on the bh (TP style in SH) which works poorly... that's why I considered using shakehand to attempt to opposite effect on penhold.
Though, it's also a psychological factor that needs to be worked with so it's not even certain it had worked on the long run, because you (or I) feel inferior on the RPB your body wants naturally to step over, or go TP instead. So I think it's about somehow re-programming away that fear factor.
Because most often when I use RPB, I've decided it beforehand.. whenever I change to RPB during a rally without mental preparation it always feels somehow resistant, slightly delayed and most often one way or another fails the stroke. So annoying:x

I just want to have a ninja Wang Hao precision + Wong Chun Ting power, with a dash of Xu Xin sidespin RPB, is that too much to ask for. :confused:

But yeah, Thanks for all the replies! :)


I'm a guy that has never actually does TPB. I always go RPB when my backhand is forced.
A good way to practice a reflexive RPB block/attack is to have someone attack you on both corners. Your partner can start out with just drives and can slowly ramp it up.

I still favor my forehand though.


************

On the side note, Wang Hao, Wong Chun Ting, and Xu Xin have very different backhands. They all work different mechanically, so yes, it is too much to ask for. But we can all wish these things right? :p


Here are some Wong Chun Ting videos
https://www.tabletennisdaily.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?13873-Learn-RPB-the-Wong-Chun-Ting-style


Wong Chun Ting uses mostly wrist for topspinning. It's also why his flips look different from the other two.

Both Xu Xin and Wong Chun Ting have their wrist further out when they backhand compared to Wang Hao.
Wang Hao, for example, his paddle goes from pointing downish/backish to pointing to the sideish.
Xu Xin and Wong Chun Ting have their paddle pointing diagonally back/sideish to pointing forward/sideish.

Both Xu Xin and Wong Chun Ting play their backhands more in front of their bodies, Wong Chun Ting more so.
Wong Chun Ting has an easier time hitting the top of the ball because of his wrist, and it seems that his forearm faces upwards more than the other two.
 
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I agree with songdavid98. To add to that, the technique of WCT and XX are more reactive than WH. As I have observed WH's stroke comes from near the waist going upwarp and sometimes even below the waist. These produces more looping spin and power in which you can still play RPB up to mid distance using this stroke in a consistent basis. WCT and XX on the other hand uses a pushing stroke hitting the ball from the top of the bounce. The difference between XX and WCT is that WCT finishes mostly with his wrist while XX ,most of the time, just pushes the ball through.

I don't consider XX as a great RPB player. Don't get me wrong he's a great player, one of the best, but his RPB is something I just find unpolished. I often see him lobbing the ball when he's continuously forced to play on his backhand side. WCT on the other hand uses RPB more often than his FH, while Wang Hao is a RPB god.

But, hey. That's just my observation. :)
 
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I'm a guy that has never actually does TPB. I always go RPB when my backhand is forced.
A good way to practice a reflexive RPB block/attack is to have someone attack you on both corners. Your partner can start out with just drives and can slowly ramp it up.

I still favor my forehand though.


************

On the side note, Wang Hao, Wong Chun Ting, and Xu Xin have very different backhands. They all work different mechanically, so yes, it is too much to ask for. But we can all wish these things right? [emoji14]


Here are some Wong Chun Ting videos
https://www.tabletennisdaily.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?13873-Learn-RPB-the-Wong-Chun-Ting-style


Wong Chun Ting uses mostly wrist for topspinning. It's also why his flips look different from the other two.

Both Xu Xin and Wong Chun Ting have their wrist further out when they backhand compared to Wang Hao.
Wang Hao, for example, his paddle goes from pointing downish/backish to pointing to the sideish.
Xu Xin and Wong Chun Ting have their paddle pointing diagonally back/sideish to pointing forward/sideish.

Both Xu Xin and Wong Chun Ting play their backhands more in front of their bodies, Wong Chun Ting more so.
Wong Chun Ting has an easier time hitting the top of the ball because of his wrist, and it seems that his forearm faces upwards more than the other two.
A good blend of RPB and TPB like Ma Lin is a deadly weapon. TPB gives you more varieties - block, power push and side slice. That's why Ma Lin usually beat Wang Hao despite that Wang Hao is stronger in general.
 
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RPB penholder....FH: 1.9 mm black Andro Rasant; BH: 2.0 mm red Tibhar 5q. Love looping from both FH and RPB. Weak on pushes (bent natural arm makes it a bit difficult...just a bit). Didn't like the carbon blade I had (yinhe t11+...no feel) so went back to all wood friendship blade.

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RPB penholder....FH: 1.9 mm black Andro Rasant; BH: 2.0 mm red Tibhar 5q. Love looping from both FH and RPB. Weak on pushes (bent natural arm makes it a bit difficult...just a bit). Didn't like the carbon blade I had (yinhe t11+...no feel) so went back to all wood friendship blade.

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I haven't tried Yinhe T11+ but all I know it's a balsa blade, and balsa blade supposed to have more feel (even with carbon in it). I have a Firewall Plus which is also a balsa blade and it has tons of feel, sometimes too much. The only drawback I have from these balsa blades are their looping capabilities. Yes, you can loop with them but it takes so much effort and hard to control, maybe because of their dynamic speed characteristic. These balsa blades are good close to the table and best for passive blocking games, especially with pips out rubbers. Also balsas are best for hitting, the only aggressive style that suites balsa blades.

But I went to replace it with a hinoki-carbon blade for more speed on passive games, especially blocking and pushing.
 
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I haven't tried Yinhe T11+ but all I know it's a balsa blade, and balsa blade supposed to have more feel (even with carbon in it). I have a Firewall Plus which is also a balsa blade and it has tons of feel, sometimes too much. The only drawback I have from these balsa blades are their looping capabilities. Yes, you can loop with them but it takes so much effort and hard to control, maybe because of their dynamic speed characteristic. These balsa blades are good close to the table and best for passive blocking games, especially with pips out rubbers. Also balsas are best for hitting, the only aggressive style that suites balsa blades.

But I went to replace it with a hinoki-carbon blade for more speed on passive games, especially blocking and pushing.
My short game was good with it, serves as well. However, looping was a tad difficult as you have also mentioned. Plus, I love the feel of all wood friendship z1 blade. May be I am not born for balsa blades (earlier have tried TSP black balsa 7.0 as well).

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Maybe the feel you're talking about is the "solid feel" that you get from allwoodsl blades. Balsa has more of a mushy feel, like the vibration spread through out the blade. While on allwood blades the vibration are felt mostly only on the area where the ball was hit.

Feel varies on your style, spinners may favor allwood for the solid vibration may help them locate whether the ball is in the sweet spot or not and whether they can manage the spin. While hitters, pushers and blockers may prefer balsa, bacause based from experience, due to the spreaded vibration in a balse blade you can calculate the power of your opponent therefore you can manage how futher you will have to push or whether to hit or block the ball.
 
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Maybe the feel you're talking about is the "solid feel" that you get from allwoodsl blades. Balsa has more of a mushy feel, like the vibration spread through out the blade. While on allwood blades the vibration are felt mostly only on the area where the ball was hit.

Feel varies on your style, spinners may favor allwood for the solid vibration may help them locate whether the ball is in the sweet spot or not and whether they can manage the spin. While hitters, pushers and blockers may prefer balsa, bacause based from experience, due to the spreaded vibration in a balse blade you can calculate the power of your opponent therefore you can manage how futher you will have to push or whether to hit or block the ball.
nice analysis man...yes I am a spinner

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