From allwood to carbon

Don't do it.

If there is a coach offering private lessons, spending money on the few of them will be a better investment, seriously.

Richard Gatchalian said:

Hi everyone, i was planing to change my current blade which is an allwood Stiga Infinity VPS V.
Now i am currently in doubt about my current play style which i thought i would want to improve and try a bit a faster paced game with a carbon blade which is faster than all wood.

current set up is Stiga Infinity VPS V
BH tenergy 80 fx
FH Tenergy 80 fx

I am a left hand player which is fexible on all kinds of attack one all is good on allwood but planing to be a little bit one step a head faster. Always recklessly attacking when an chance of opening shows up.

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You saying "Now i am currently in doubt about my current play style which i thought i would want to improve and try a bit a faster paced game with a carbon blade which is faster than all wood." tells me that you definitely should not change your blade.

People seem to not understand when to change their equipment. Equipment change is something you do when your game and play style is very solid, when you don't have anything to improve. If you want to improve your game, then you should take a look at your technique, not your equipment.

I know players that compete that use a lot slower equipment than what you already have, what makes you think you need a faster blade?

Broken said:

You saying "Now i am currently in doubt about my current play style which i thought i would want to improve and try a bit a faster paced game with a carbon blade which is faster than all wood." tells me that you definitely should not change your blade.

People seem to not understand when to change their equipment. Equipment change is something you do when your game and play style is very solid, when you don't have anything to improve. If you want to improve your game, then you should take a look at your technique, not your equipment.

I know players that compete that use a lot slower equipment than what you already have, what makes you think you need a faster blade?

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This is an excellent explanation.

A true offensive all out attacker can play that way with whatever racket he is using. When you play that way and all your attacks are solidly on the table, and your spin is high level spin, then upgrading may make sense.

But the blade you are using is fast enough for that style of play.

And when you can hit your attacking shots with that blade and have them have lots of power (pace and spin) and lots of consistency, then a faster blade won't be necessary but you could probably use one.

But technique is always worth focusing on. And equipment generally is not going to improve your technique. However, training and practice does.

A faster blade when your technique is not really high level, can actually make your technique get worse because of how you have to adjust and cut down your stroke to get the ball on the table.

And an all wood blade that is not too fast can actually help your technique improve because of how you really need good racket speed, a full stroke and the whole body timed to the stroke to get full power. When you can dial that in against whatever ball comes at you and can reset for the next ball over and over again, that is the time when you could switch. And it is amazing how, what seems like a small improvement in timing and contact can give your ball so much more POP!


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UpSideDownCarl said:

This is an excellent explanation.

A true offensive all out attacker can play that way with whatever racket he is using. When you play that way and all your attacks are solidly on the table, and your spin is high level spin, then upgrading may make sense.

But the blade you are using is fast enough for that style of play.

And when you can hit your attacking shots with that blade and have them have lots of power (pace and spin) and lots of consistency, then a faster blade won't be necessary but you could probably use one.

But technique is always worth focusing on. And equipment generally is not going to improve your technique. However, training and practice does.

A faster blade when your technique is not really high level, can actually make your technique get worse because of how you have to adjust and cut down your stroke to get the ball on the table.

And an all wood blade that is not too fast can actually help your technique improve because of how you really need good racket speed, a full stroke and the whole body timed to the stroke to get full power. When you can dial that in against whatever ball comes at you and can reset for the next ball over and over again, that is the time when you could switch. And it is amazing how, what seems like a small improvement in timing and contact can give your ball so much more POP!


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Curiosity will always get the better of people. A person learns and understands from experience, so I'm not against EJing.
But what everyone says above is true. Learning to spin the ball and being able to feel it are critical to improving, and a
faster carbon blade makes that task all the more difficult.

You must be sick of people screaming don't do it! at you but I got to agree with them.

The fastest way to become more offensive is to practice serves.

Spending half of your practice time(or changing equipment) doing multiball FH loops won't help one bit if your opponent is constantly flicking and stopping with ease. So becoming at least competitive in your league in 1) serves 2) recieves 3) opening against push is prerequisite before loops can be considered.

Having said that, you never know what it's like until you experience it. I also think that purchasing new blade helps you getting motivated so if you can afford it, go ahead!

I knew a guy who used to have cheap, slow blades. I used to beat him all the time. Then he bought a Stiga Intensity and then a Stiga CC7, with Tenergy 64fx rubbers. Now I can't beat him anymore. I also bought my son a Butterfly Cypress jpen with Tenergy 64 and I have the most difficult time with him when he uses that paddle.

So does equipment make a difference? I think it does, but its like you're making a deal with the devil because you're trading short term gain with a fixed ceiling of improvement. Both of these guys have awful looking mechanics and they can handily beat C level players at the club (like me), but rarely beat the A level players without the help of a handicap match.

But EJing is fun. I'm the first to admit it. It just hasn't helped me as much as it did the others. Maybe because I wasn't using tenergy?

What TTD wants to know is why dude's first post is this... No one knows what is up with a first post like this.

Stiga wooden blades are among the best in the world. T80 already gives you tremendous speed & spin with good control. Anything faster than this would not give you any "drastic" change, probably subtle improvement at the expense of less accuracy.

Pump up your muscle and spend a lot of time on footwork. Don't be fooled by just training your upper body. The best advice I can give you is footwork, footwork and footwork. With great footwork:
You will improve timing, therefore accuracy and power
You will seize more offensive opportunity
You will help do better short game



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Richard Gatchalian said:

would a change of equipment is what i need or what i need is completely different from what i posted in this site.

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To make it short: completely different!

First of all: composite blades aren't necessarily faster than all wood blades. Stiffer yes, but not always faster. In fact there are even composite defensive blades out there like the Nittaku Shake Defence or others.

See premade setups are mostly just for hobby usage. So coming from that it really was a big step to your recent racket. But switching to a composite would actually throw you back in your progress.
The composite would hinder your ability to 'feel' the ball as intense as an all-wood blade would do, so the way you describe your progress, changing to a composite blade now is definitely not recommendable and would be the worst thing for your progress to do now.

Carl has already written so many great posts about this...

And Infinitiy is a pretty good blade and fast enough already for almost anyone.

I think it is quite personnal, I got a stiga évolution allround and a Timo Boll alc : in term of sensation I prefer the tb alc. Why?
I'm not comfortable with the head size and the handle size of the stiga evo and with the tb alc I have a good feeling of the ball like a wood blade despite of the carbone layer (I read that the tb alc is like a wood blade due to the arylate), I like very much the size of the head and handle of the tb alc ! It fits my hand perfectly.
I'm not a high level player but I play with this composite blade like a thug.
Well I spent 140€ for this shit so I have to use it too xD
I try to train as much as possible with my trainer to develop my technique despite of the "unsuitable" racket (omg carbon blade + fast rubber, what dis I do? Please Carl, don't hurt me)... (Trying to recover from EJ virus... #nomoneyanymore)

Richard Gatchalian said:

Hi everyone, i was planing to change my current blade which is an allwood Stiga Infinity VPS V.
Now i am currently in doubt about my current play style which i thought i would want to improve and try a bit a faster paced game with a carbon blade which is faster than all wood.

current set up is Stiga Infinity VPS V
BH tenergy 80 fx
FH Tenergy 80 fx

I am a left hand player which is fexible on all kinds of attack one all is good on allwood but planing to be a little bit one step a head faster. Always recklessly attacking when an chance of opening shows up.

Click to expand...

Hahaha
Do you know that the top Junior in the National team uses Infinity VPS? Switch if you feel that your skills are high enough to use carbon blades.

I started playing using a wickedly fast carbon blade, The Gergely. I felt that I can't use the blade properly so I switched to Viscaria. With the Viscaria I was the champion in our Intramurals and got the chance to play in the PRISAA National Games. I felt I needed speed so I switched to Mizutani Super ZLC where my game was more on flat hits and occasional spin. Basically there was no technique just purely relying on the speed and large sweetspot of the blade. After realizing that my technique sucks I switched again to Arylate, the Akrasia. I felt I needed something slower to solidfy my techniques I then switched to Ebenholz and went to the Metro to train. My game improved a lot and my technique imroved a lot with the allwood blade.

Now with the new balls I felt that I needed something faster and more stable but with Allwood feel, my current blade Apolonia ZLC. It is not the fastest carbon even the Arylate ones are faster I just enjoy the woody feel and the stability.

P.S. moral of the story: "Skill comes first"

Richard Gatchalian said:

Thank you very much for giving advice, maybe i was just too focused on getting better equipment rather than polishing my basic skills. I have doubt myself on getting stronger blade that might not suits my current play style with the high skill requirement of the said blades.

I now made up my mind to stay on my current path and train more footwork and improve my defense, maybe ill just change to Tibhar Evo MX-P rubbers rather than my current Tenergy 80fx build.

and to Rajaloopha i once represent my school in the CISAA in my senior year but i think the name changed to PRISAA i dont know since i left the highschool table tennis scene.

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Great idea.
[Emoji106]
One more thing might be good to know:
all-wood blades allow one to feel if one's contact point on the blade is good, not so good or rather wack. All-wood blades don't have such a big sweet spot (they can vary from blade to blade) whereas composite blades might trick you, 'cause the whole blade is one big sweet spot, and hence you can't really feel, if you have made good contact or not, which can be quite hindering in one's progress...

BTW: i've just switched from a moderate speed composite blade back to an all-wood blade, 'cause once again i got 'addicted' to that lovely feeling. I just hope it never breaks, 'cause it isn't produced anymore...

The composite blade produces a lower and flatter but also longer trajectory than my Killton. I had to close my bat angle quite a bit after changing, 'cause the first balls went long and too high.

Richard Gatchalian said:

Thank you very much for giving advice, maybe i was just too focused on getting better equipment rather than polishing my basic skills. I have doubt myself on getting stronger blade that might not suits my current play style with the high skill requirement of the said blades.

I now made up my mind to stay on my current path and train more footwork and improve my defense, maybe ill just change to Tibhar Evo MX-P rubbers rather than my current Tenergy 80fx build.

and to Rajaloopha i once represent my school in the CISAA in my senior year but i think the name changed to PRISAA i dont know since i left the highschool table tennis scene.

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Since you have some experience with your all wood blade, do keep an open mind about trying out other blades if the opportunity knocks (like if your partner has an ALC carbon, ask to switch and hit with it for a while). It will give you more experience and satisfy your curiosity at the same time. I too have switched back to an all wood 5-ply blade because it has so much more feeling than my "feelsome" Adidas Hypertouch (similar to Timo Boll Spirit/ALC).

shinhyun said:

Please Carl, don't hurt me)... (Trying to recover from EJ virus...)

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Hahaha. Who is this guy Carl who might hurt you. Hahaha.

On the info side of things: you can make the choices you want. The ALC blades are quite decent. The Arylate in them does give you a softness that helps you get more spin.

But, in spite of the idea that they have good feeling, this is actually different than what is meant by the kind of good feeling you get from certain kinds of all wood blades.

Let me see if I can explain. I know, I know, I have written this same basic information so many times. But it is complex and counterintuitive so, often people just don't quite understand it.

An ALC blade feels better in a certain way!!!! What! What did that guy Carl just say? Why is he called UpSideDownCarl. I thought it was this:



When you rip the ball, an ALC blade feels better. That is right. I said that. These kinds of blades feel awesome, especially when you are counterlooping from mid-distance and ripping the ball over and over.

An ALC blade will cause your slight mess-ups and not good contact to feel as if it is good contact. It will allow you to do things with mediocre technique that will still feel good and get you the desired result from that shot you took.

But this exact thing will cause your nervous system to think subpar contact and technique is actually good technique. And so your nervous system will not be given the feedback that tells it when you messed up and did something that was not so good. And most of what you do, the feeling you get in your hand will seem to tell you that the technique and contact was good even when it was not.

So these ALC blades allow you to continue to use mediocre technique and get better results than you should get. The carbon in the blade cuts out certain frequencies of vibration so even bad contact feels good. So, in the long run, if you are thinking about the big picture, one of these great ALC blades, while they really are amazing for someone whose technique is really high level technique, they can hinder the continued development of technique for a mid-level player.

There are some players whose improvement will not be hindered much by this. And there are others whose technical progress will be slowed more by this. However, with good coaching

A 5 ply all wood blade that is said to have decent flex, feel, and high dwell time (whatever those things actually mean) on the other hand, when your contact is good, it will feel good. Just about as good as an ALC blade without quite the same thrill and addiction to speed that you get with an ALC blade even when your contact is not quite what it should be.

However, what happens with one of these blades with--so called--"good feeling" when you make mediocre contact and your technique is subpar? Bad contact FEELS BAD? Wait, did I just say that these blades with good feeling feel BAD when your contact is BAD? Yep. I did. I said it. I'll say it again. A blade with good feeling will feel bad when what you do is not good.

Why is this a good thing? Your neuromuscular system in conjunction with your fairly miraculous brain processing capabilities, receives the message of good contact as good and bad contact as bad, and, as a result, on a subcortical level (subcortical is a big word that means below the level of your conscious awareness)--on an unconscious level, your neuromuscular system refines your contact and without you even realizing it, your contact improves and you get better. You start making good contact more and more frequently because you are rewarded for it and you start making bad contact less frequently because bad contact is punished by a bad shot and a bad feeling in the hand.

This does not happen with an ALC blade because your mistakes are masked by how good the carbon helps you have power even when your technique is not good.

But in the end, everyone has a right to choose whatever equipment they want. And to understand what I just said, misunderstand what I just said, or be oblivious to it.

Now I will go back to standing on my hands.



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By the way, one time I lent my blade to a friend who is a pretty decent level, he is a high enough level to use whatever he wants and be fine. When he gave it back he said to me: "you know what I don't like about your racket? I can feel exactly where on the blade the ball is when I make contact!"

Now, that degree of feeling, it does not always feel good. But that is what is meant by a blade with "good feeling". Not that the blade masks your mistakes and makes them feel good even when they are not.


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