From allwood to carbon

Ok tomorrow I will take the stiga evo back

(Well I know all of this, it is you who suggested me to take the stiga evo (between several blade) I admit that I bought the stiga one without testing it but in the end I am not comfortable with the head and handle size that is why I came back to my former blade the tbalc :/ is there a blade which looks like the tb alc size ?)

Sry for this "out of subject post"

shinhyun said:

(Well I know all of this, it is you who suggested me to take the stiga evo (between several blade) I admit that I bought the stiga one without testing it but in the end I am not comfortable with the head and handle size that is why I came back to my former blade the tbalc :/ is there a blade which looks like the tb alc size ?)

Sry for this "out of subject post"

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The blade face of TB ALC is 150x157mm, right?

The blade face of Stiga Allround Evolution is 150x157mm. Am I missing something?

Which handle did you get for Stiga Allround Evolution?

It is true that to someone who is used to a Butterfly handle, some of the Stiga handles can feel like tree trunks. And to someone used to some of the Stiga handles, many of the Butterfly handles can feel like popsicle sticks.

Too me the handle is not that important. But I know, to some, it can be. Part of the reason the handle does not matter to me is that I don't really fully hold the handle. I actually hold the blade face with my index finger and thumb. I got this from a pro who came to USA from China that I know. It works for me. So the handle does not usually matter.

But there are other players where the handle really matters.

What about a Nittaku Acoustic or Violin? Those are supposed to have small handles.

In the end, I am not going to judge anyone. I provide information that hopefully helps people understand what will be best for them and why so they can make educated choices about equipment.

In the real scope of things nothing bad will happen if you use a TB ALC. But technique will develop a little more quickly with a decent all wood blade.


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UpSideDownCarl said:

The blade face of TB ALC is 150x157mm, right?

The blade face of Stiga Allround Evolution is 150x157mm. Am I missing something?

Which handle did you get for Stiga Allround Evolution?

It is true that to someone who is used to a Butterfly handle, some of the Stiga handles can feel like tree trunks. And to someone used to some of the Stiga handles, many of the Butterfly handles can feel like popsicle sticks.

Too me the handle is not that important. But I know, to some, it can be. Part of the reason the handle does not matter to me is that I don't really fully hold the handle. I actually hold the blade face with my index finger and thumb. I got this from a pro who came to USA from China that I know. It works for me. So the handle does not usually matter.

But there are other players where the handle really matters.

What about a Nittaku Acoustic or Violin? Those are supposed to have small handles.

In the end, I am not going to judge anyone. I provide information that hopefully helps people understand what will be best for them and why so they can make educated choices about equipment.

In the real scope of things nothing bad will happen if you use a TB ALC. But technique will develop a little more quickly with a decent all wood blade.


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I've found all the fingers to be very important for how I loop - there are times when there is more pressure in the thumb and long finger, but there are times when I get whip from the two smallest fingers. So for me, getting used to the feel of the handle matters a lot as when I change, I lose some of the specialized muscle memory that activates the small things on my prior handle.

So I understand the viewpoint of anyone who finds handle very important.

NextLevel said:

I've found all the fingers to be very important for how I loop - there are times when there is more pressure in the thumb and long finger, but there are times when I get whip from the two smallest fingers. So for me, getting used to the feel of the handle matters a lot as when I change, I lose some of the specialized muscle memory that activates the small things on my prior handle.

So I understand the viewpoint of anyone who finds handle very important.

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So true for a lot of people!

Even the slightest changes to the grip can affect learning forehand and backhand strokes consistently. It is very important to pay attention to the gripping of the blade to ensure that the blade is held the same way all the time when learning strokes. Often a player might have an off day or a deteriorating performance simply because the grip has shifted slightly perhaps unknowingly or due to fatigue in parts of the hand. Carl's "choking up" grip pinching with index finger and thumb is one way to keep the grip more consistent with different handle types. But even then, the blade can still drift towards the thumb knuckle (forehand centric) or the finger knuckle (backhand centric). Sorry if this has drifted off topic.

NextLevel said:

I've found all the fingers to be very important for how I loop - there are times when there is more pressure in the thumb and long finger, but there are times when I get whip from the two smallest fingers. So for me, getting used to the feel of the handle matters a lot as when I change, I lose some of the specialized muscle memory that activates the small things on my prior handle.

So I understand the viewpoint of anyone who finds handle very important.

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I would agree with the use of fingers thing. I am using them. I am just not really holding with them. They are there. They are loose around the handle. And they do more than I even realize even though they are loose around the handle. And I do get how a different handle can change things and be important. I've noticed that, for me, if I play with anything enough I get used to it and can use it. At a certain point you develop subtle technical details around the equipment you are using. So a change in equipment can disrupt certain things.

But over time, if you play with a blade or a handle long enough your technique will develop around it. And then of course there are guys like Baal who play with one handle (flare) for years and discover that there are certain things they can do better with a different handle (straight, I think it was straight/round but can't remember). So I wouldn't want to downplay those details.

But I feel like I am somewhat immune to handle changes personally. I have used Anatomic from Stiga (winner). Stiga Legend, Stiga Master, TB ZLF flare.

The hardest adjustment was going from Stiga Legend to Butterfly flare. But it only took about 30 min to be fine and 3 weeks to not even notice.

But everyone is different and I am not sure that it says much good or bad that I can get used to changes in equipment easily. It may just reflect that at some point in playing I was trying 10-30 different rackets every week. None of them were mine. But I was at a club where an old friend worked at the club and he tried everyone's racket and he would train me and make me try all of them for us to compare what we felt.

These days I am not interested and don't have the time for that anymore. I just want to use my main weapon because it makes me the happiest. [emoji2]


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how bad can it be to play with a carbon blade?

doraemon said:

how bad can it be to play with a carbon blade?

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Well, this is one of those things that depends. What are your goals? If your goal is to play and have fun, it makes no difference.

Before my loop was decent and had a decently high level of spin, for me the thing that was the most fun was ripping the ball with a really fast blade. But at that point I wanted to get as much better as I possibly could. And I was told that learning higher level spin and trying to learn how to spin the hell out of everything was the road to higher level technique and to getting better at the sport.

At this point, those faster blades are not so interesting to me because of how much more spin and arc I can get on the ball with my racket and because of how much bigger of an angle I can get with my racket because I can spin the ball so that it lands only inches past the net. And those big angles, that degree of placement I get, you can't do that with that fast a racket unless your technique is REALLY high level.

So if your goal is to have fun and you have that addiction to speed that makes you want to use a fast carbon blade, there is no problem using one of those blades. You can get to a pretty high level with one of those blades anyway. It just takes a little longer to really develop that level of spin. Whereas, with one of those flexible, 5 ply, all wood blades with good dwell time and good feeling, your neuromuscular system will learn the touch of spinning the ball a bit faster.


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Lately on some of my regular shots that I perform, I've been able to know if the shot is gonna go out or drop short based on the feeling on contact. There's a bit of a doubt sometimes and I might be wrong, but the feeling is usually right.

Visuals and sound play a bit part I'd reckon, but I'm pretty sure that I can feel the quality and placement of a shot sometimes before I even turn my head back at the table.

I'm sure my allwood Stiga blade has something to do with it.

I am actually in situation which is opposite to yours. My story start with quite fast carbon blade Xiom Ignito. Then I realized it is too fast and switched to Acoustic which is all wood. Another problem appeared is head heaviness so I moved to M.Maze which is arylate. It didn't solved the problem so I went to all wood limba outer Donic Waldner Limited Edition 2016. It is much better feeling of the ball but much slower than my maze obviously.

Recently I realized that equipment changing doesn't help me to improve. I understood that I reached the level where I will not grow further without coach. So I started taking lessons with Maze setup then downgraded to Waldner. It gave me better control but hard times to finish the points against stable opponents. I keep on practicing for month and then I swtiched again to Maze. It is absolutely another story. I didn't expect that my game become more agressive and stable with Maze. Though I still realize it is faster than I need to now and currently looking to try something a bit slower all wood blade to have more feeling and control.

Conclusion. If you want to improve yourself more quickly you better stick with all wood blade all+ off- range and keep on practicing with coach. You will reach the point when you lack the speed and you may consider switching to faster carbon blades OR if you want just enjoy playing with fast carbon blades so just go with it. I see plenty of beginners playing even with TB ALC paring with tenergies and they like its rarely sucessfull but laser speed shots. They just get much more satisfaction with it than with slow blades. You choose the path you want to go along with.

My tb alc size is 157x150 but my stiga evo is 158x149 and the form is different too. That makes with rubbers a heavier blade with stiga than with tb... Much more head heavy.
I take the St handle, the stiga one is much bigger than the tb
I've never try nittaku blade because they are expensive for me now (no money anymore)

I think your issue with the Stiga Evo don't come from head size.........it's just that Stiga blades don't have a "smooth finish" like Butterfly ones.....angles are sharp and uncomfortable, you need to play ALOT with a Stiga blade to let your hand smooth the handle and the angles.

I have used sandpaper to smooth all the angles and the handle lol

shinhyun said:

My tb alc size is 157x150 but my stiga evo is 158x149 and the form is different too. That makes with rubbers a heavier blade with stiga than with tb... Much more head heavy.
I take the St handle, the stiga one is much bigger than the tb
I've never try nittaku blade because they are expensive for me now (no money anymore)

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Can you take photos of that. The Stiga Allround Evolution is supposed to be 150x157mm. The head shape should be a little different from the TB ALC blade. But the size should be the same. The Stiga blade should be a little rounder. But definitely not thinner or longer.

When I get home I will try to take photos of my TB ZLF and my Allround Evolution side by side.

It makes me wonder how you got one with such an odd head shape.


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Ah do the Beast Mod on that sucka and you'll be good to go at around 125 grams without rubbers, give or take 5 grams.

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I don't want to remove the rubber to make the photos you want so I take what I have and try to show what I want to show =) Hope you see that.
I think it is pretty weird because it is like 157x150 but the feeling is very different due to the blade shape !

shinhyun said:

I don't want to remove the rubber to make the photos you want so I take what I have and try to show what I want to show =) Hope you see that.
I think it is pretty weird because it is like 157x150 but the feeling is very different due to the blade shape !

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Sorry: why didn't you just take photos of the blade with the rubbers on? I am not even sure what these photos are. I guess it doesn't matter though. If you know that both blades are 150x157mm then there is no need. I know the difference in the shape of the blades.

But the blades feel different because the blade ARE different. Material, face shape, handle, weight balance.

That is probably what you don't like is that Stiga's handles are more hollow than a lot of other company's handles. Which makes their blades a little more head heavy than Butterfly blades. That is why Der_Echte made the cryptic suggestion about his Beast Mod. What he did was open the handle and add weight to the handle so that it is no longer head heavy. But he likes blades that weigh 95-120 grams. [emoji2]

If you play with the Allround Evolution long enough you will get used to how it plays. But if you don't like it, just get a Yasaka Sweden Extra. It is pretty inexpensive and just add the rubbers from the Allround Evolution to it and use that.





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shinhyun said:

My tb alc size is 157x150 but my stiga evo is 158x149 and the form is different too. That makes with rubbers a heavier blade with stiga than with tb... Much more head heavy.
I take the St handle, the stiga one is much bigger than the tb
I've never try nittaku blade because they are expensive for me now (no money anymore)

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shinhyun, quick question, is your "Stiga Evo" the Stiga Allround Evolution blade?

Or is it a premade racket called Stiga Evolution?

They are two very different things.

This is the Stiga Allround Evolution blade: http://www.paddlepalace.com/Allround-Evolution/productinfo/SSALEN/