From allwood to carbon

NextLevel · Jan 12, 2017

thekleifheit13 said:
I tried my coach's Viscaria with T80 & T05fx the other day and noticed it was really only lighter than my Dawei Matrix with 999t & Corbor. I didn't notice much difference in my ability to feel the ball, though I could feel that his sponges are softer. Am I so inept that I can't tell the difference? Probably. But I do think a newer player can use and develop with a carbon blade as long as he/she has a coach and is conscientious about spin quality on every shot.

Of course it is possible. Kids do it all the time after a certain rating level. Few people do it at the very beginning. But the bigger point is that the feeling you are trying to avoid helps you learn how to make good contact with the ball.

The issue that is also not discussed as much but is equally important is the ability to play touch shots. As my coach told me, too many players evaluate a blade on the basis of how well it loops and not all the other shots required to play at a high level in modern table tennis.

Chinese rubbers also have their own disadvantages as well but if you like them, I will not knock you.it takes getting to a certain level to see the disadvantage in the shot quality you are producing and whether the tradeoff is worth it.

ttpshot · Jan 12, 2017

NextLevel said:
The issue that is also not discussed as much but is equally important is the ability to play touch shots. As my coach told me, too many players evaluate a blade on the basis of how well it loops and not all the other shots required to play at a high level in modern table tennis.

That's so true. It's such a shame so many blades are discarded because the "loop is slow".
The fact is it's a lot easier to loop faster than serve/recieve well with unsuitable blade.

thekleifheit13 · Jan 12, 2017

NextLevel said:
Of course it is possible. Kids do it all the time after a certain rating level. Few people do it at the very beginning. But the bigger point is that the feeling you are trying to avoid helps you learn how to make good contact with the ball.

The issue that is also not discussed as much but is equally important is the ability to play touch shots. As my coach told me, too many players evaluate a blade on the basis of how well it loops and not all the other shots required to play at a high level in modern table tennis.

Chinese rubbers also have their own disadvantages as well but if you like them, I will not knock you.it takes getting to a certain level to see the disadvantage in the shot quality you are producing and whether the tradeoff is worth it.

I completely agree with you - the looping game doesn't matter if you can never get past serve and receive. I definitely like my slow setup and the over-the-table game is a big part of it. I can still hit hard and spinny enough to get the job done at my level and a few above. I still have a lot to go before I even consider moving to a fast setup, let alone carbon. The added bragging rights of winning with a $20 USD setup don't hurt either...

Der_Echte · Jan 12, 2017

Schlaftablette said:
Back to topic: Go for a composite blade! If a blade is fast or slow has nothing to do with its material but only how hard you hit with it. Sure, allwood blades tend to "fake" a better feeling, because the vibration is stronger and longer, but who cares? As soon as the ball leaves your blade, it doesn't matter what the blade feels like. And if you have "the feeling" in your hand, then it doesn't matter how strong the feeling is. In my case, this after vibration is just irritating. Also, composite blades have a bigger "sweet spot". That comes from the stiffness the artificial layers bring. I would say GREAT! More of my blade I actually can use to hit the ball. (more value for the money!) Being able to use more of your blade opens up so many more possibilities. Just think about all the spin-variations you can do just by connecting on a different spot on your blade! And why is everyone talking about bad technic? Just because you can't feel the ball does not mean you are damned to have a bad technic. Just people who never got tought a "correct" technic or did not care for it, are these players with a "bad" technic. Composite blades are not worse or better for learning a "correct" technic. Even if your technic is the ugliest, most disgusting and hatefull one, a technic so "incorrect" that it instantly burns the eyes of the spectators, wouldn't it the best feeling if you still win your games? Just imagine you winning with your said technic against a player using an allwood blade, having the most beautiful technic.

Schlafftablette, ? ?? ?? ??? ?????? I just asked ST if he had one or two dozen cold ones before writing that last post.

Well, it was a brilliant-azz post. This is exactly the kind of things we should ask ourselves. We should question why we do stuff and why we believe... right or wrong.

Suga D · Jan 15, 2017

Schlaftablette said:
Back to topic: Go for a composite blade! If a blade is fast or slow has nothing to do with its material but only how hard you hit with it. Sure, allwood blades tend to "fake" a better feeling, because the vibration is stronger and longer, but who cares? As soon as the ball leaves your blade, it doesn't matter what the blade feels like. And if you have "the feeling" in your hand, then it doesn't matter how strong the feeling is. In my case, this after vibration is just irritating. Also, composite blades have a bigger "sweet spot". That comes from the stiffness the artificial layers bring. I would say GREAT! More of my blade I actually can use to hit the ball. (more value for the money!) Being able to use more of your blade opens up so many more possibilities. Just think about all the spin-variations you can do just by connecting on a different spot on your blade! And why is everyone talking about bad technic? Just because you can't feel the ball does not mean you are damned to have a bad technic. Just people who never got tought a "correct" technic or did not care for it, are these players with a "bad" technic. Composite blades are not worse or better for learning a "correct" technic. Even if your technic is the ugliest, most disgusting and hatefull one, a technic so "incorrect" that it instantly burns the eyes of the spectators, wouldn't it the best feeling if you still win your games? Just imagine you winning with your said technic against a player using an allwood blade, having the most beautiful technic.

Der_Echte said:
Schlafftablette, ? ?? ?? ??? ?????? I just asked ST if he had one or two dozen cold ones before writing that last post.

Well, it was a brilliant-azz post. This is exactly the kind of things we should ask ourselves. We should question why we do stuff and why we believe... right or wrong.

I had to think about this for a minute. You really could be right, 'cause everybody's different. Maybe that could also be to a degree what DTopSpirit has written lately.

DTopSpirit said:
Bottom line 2: Over the years I have learnt that a lot of table tennis advice should be prefaced with the term - "It depends on...". The same tip can be good, neutral or terrible depending on the circumstances of the player receiving the tip. I see a lot more grey and a lot less black and white in this regard these days.

Everybody's different. So somebody with really sensitive hands or strong

Baal said:
...cutaneous sensory receptors....

like Baal has written in one of his latest posts like a watchmaker or a musician/player of instruments might find too much vibration a bit irrititating...
Thanks for expanding the horizon, Der_Echte and Schlaftablette.
[Emoji106]
Actually carl has written something similar on page one of this thread.

UpSideDownCarl said:
By the way, one time I lent my blade to a friend who is a pretty decent level, he is a high enough level to use whatever he wants and be fine. When he gave it back he said to me: "you know what I don't like about your racket? I can feel exactly where on the blade the ball is when I make contact!"

Now, that degree of feeling, it does not always feel good. But that is what is meant by a blade with "good feeling". Not that the blade masks your mistakes and makes them feel good even when they are not.

Sent from the Subterranean Workshop by Telepathy

Though i probably still wouldn't recommend composite blades to any beginner rightaway. But i guess a coach who's been coaching that beginner for a little while should be able to see if his student has 'soft hands' or not.

Jaffar Lone · Jan 18, 2017

Very important point made.. i can somehow relate to this thread because i tried to switch to Carbon blades many times (TB ZLC, Xiom Stradivarius) with little success. Reason is that i have been using my all wood blade for nearly 4 years now (Hurricane WL). And it rewards the good contact and is not so forgiving on the 'bad contact'. With carbon i do not get the same amount of feeling.
If you are an all-wood player you might as well continue to use the same setup, it might help to work more on the technique of service, service receive, loop spin, third ball attack, side attack, blocking (backhand + forehand) and so forth.

dfreeman012 · Jan 18, 2017

Hi,what are some of the differences between a carbon and all-wood blade?

Schlaftablette · Jan 21, 2017

Allwood blades, as the name says, don't use any artificial non-wooden layers. They purely consist of "natural" wood.
Carbon blades on the other hand use, as the name indicates, a carbon layer. Carbon is a non-wood material.

UpSideDownCarl · Jan 21, 2017

dfreeman012 said:
Hi,what are some of the differences between a carbon and all-wood blade?

Have you read through much of the thread? I suspect you will find much on the subject you are asking about, already posted on the thread.

Der_Echte · Jan 23, 2017

I "Went from All Wood to Carbon" this weekend in my Goon Squad adventure to a San Jose, Ca West Coast TT club visit.

Day one, I played with an allround class 5 ply wood blade (Nexy LISSOM) then the next day opened up the arms room and checked out the OFF Nexy Hannibal Carbon blade. Both blades had Karis (M+ on LISSOM and M on Hannibal) and no one could tell the difference in touch on my serve and serve receive. Since I am known as a Rambo Looper, it really doesn't matter what opponent is feeling on attack except pain.. and that kinda over-rides the ability to discern my touch.

There are only two blades that are too fast rebounding for me to handle from Nexy, I pretty much plug and play any of them, whether they are wood or composite... but what the heck, I am known as NOT an elite player and an internet hack, so pour a Kilo of salt over my words before digesting them.

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From allwood to carbon

NextLevel

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ttpshot

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thekleifheit13

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Der_Echte

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Suga D

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Jaffar Lone

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dfreeman012

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Schlaftablette

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