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  1. Takkyu_wa_inochi is offline
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    #41
    Yes they can be beaten. Korea just beat them in semis at Junior Worlds (M)...
    and Japan is about to kick their butt in the (F) final...

    edit: thats done... 3-0 victory of ITO against SHI to clinch the Junior World Team Title !!!!
    Last edited by Takkyu_wa_inochi; 12-03-2016 at 04:40 PM.

  2. Takkyu_wa_inochi is offline
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    #42
    Quote Originally Posted by vik
    I think in near future they can be beatable.after ma long,zhang jike and xuxin retire.Oly Fzd is much better but others are beatable.do you see others?
    I agree this is an exceptional Chinese generation. We take it for granted, but I'm not sure all Chinese will be as strong. FZD will probably be the next Grand Slam winner but apart from him, we don't see anyone (yet)... There is room for players of other countries to win.

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    #43
    i saw and know of Ochsenhausen, its an amazing place but i feel they lack true belief (read their website and you'll see they on speak of europe) secondly they do not cater for Female players and thirdly they do not cater for very young player.
    but what it currently is (its a dream for any aspiring tt player

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  4. Raylazyfo is offline
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    #44
    Quote Originally Posted by Takkyu_wa_inochi
    Yes they can be beaten. Korea just beat them in semis at Junior Worlds (M)...
    and Japan is about to kick their butt in the (F) final...

    edit: thats done... 3-0 victory of ITO against SHI to clinch the Junior World Team Title !!!!
    Sorry to burst your bubble but I think the chinese dont really send their best juniors to other countries

  5. yuri.saldon is offline
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    #45
    I don't think China will be beaten so soon. If you watch Chinese super league you saw the non Chinese players inferiority, they lose a lot more than win.

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  6. Takkyu_wa_inochi is offline
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    #46
    Quote Originally Posted by Raylazyfo
    Sorry to burst your bubble but I think the chinese dont really send their best juniors to other countries
    so what ? a few years ago it was enough to beat other nations, now its not.
    Harimoto is clearly a phenomenon, one can have the biggest expectations for him.

    The Japanese players are still young. Miu HIRANO is losing to many Chinese players in the Chinese league but she is playing with them every week now. I think she is talented and can catch up in time. its not too late for her. Other Japanese players should follow her example.

    Japan and Korea are closing the gap. Other nations are clearly lagging.

  7. vik is offline
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    #47
    Harimoto is Japanese like Li Ping is Qatarian.His real name s Zhang Ji he.He was forced to change his name to play for Japan?Could you explain to me why did he change name?Kai Youshida was forced to change his name also?
    Last edited by vik; 12-28-2016 at 10:56 AM.

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    #48
    Harimoto is Japanese like Li Ping is Qatarian.His real name s Zhang Ji he.He was forced to change his name to play for Japan?Could you explain to me why did he change name?Kai Yoshida was forced to change his name also?

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    #49
    Zhou You and Wang chuqin were beaten lately ,Fang Bo is also weaker,Yan An.All of them were beaten.It means after 4 big names is really big gap.I would say in 4-5 years it will be closer battle than now.maybe Harimoto can beat them even though he is chinese too.
    Last edited by vik; 12-28-2016 at 11:01 AM.

  10. Takkyu_wa_inochi is offline
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    #50
    Quote Originally Posted by vik
    Harimoto is Japanese like Li Ping is Qatarian.His real name s Zhang Ji he.He was forced to change his name to play for Japan?Could you explain to me why did he change name?Kai Yoshida was forced to change his name also?
    you are a complete Troll and i'm just trying to stay polite.

    you cannot compare Li Ping and Harimoto. nor Kaii Yoshida.

    Harimoto parents are Chinese but he's lived in Japan since he is a baby, he goes to the Japanese public elementary school and he speaks perfect Japanese. He trains in Japan.

    LI Ping is a mercenary, and i doubt he speaks more than a handful words of Arabic and he must be spending 1 week a year in Qatar, for the Qatar Open
    Kaii YOSHIDA went to Japan from China when adult. Japanese ask all foreigners to take a Japanese name when establishing national IDs. I am European and if i was to ask for the Japanese nationality i would have to change my name into Japanese. my ID, my bank accounts etc... use a japanese phonetic transcription of my name as well.

    it has nothing to do with the fact he is Chinese in particular.

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    #51
    Quote Originally Posted by vik
    Harimoto is Japanese like Li Ping is Qatarian.His real name s Zhang Ji he.He was forced to change his name to play for Japan?Could you explain to me why did he change name?Kai Yoshida was forced to change his name also?
    Seriously? A boy born and raised and trained in Japan? Compared to Li who was born and raised and trained in... China? Sure both of them have Chinese parents but you should google before you write mindlessly.

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    #52
    Quote Originally Posted by Takkyu_wa_inochi
    so what ? a few years ago it was enough to beat other nations, now its not.
    Harimoto is clearly a phenomenon, one can have the biggest expectations for him.

    The Japanese players are still young. Miu HIRANO is losing to many Chinese players in the Chinese league but she is playing with them every week now. I think she is talented and can catch up in time. its not too late for her. Other Japanese players should follow her example.

    Japan and Korea are closing the gap. Other nations are clearly lagging.
    I agree Japan and Korea have a handful of very promising juniors (I think harimoto could win a few major titles).
    But the question is whether any nation can beat china in the team event. There have been lots of great individual players from other countries (samsanov, boll, ryu seung min, schlager) but ever since the swedes in 2000 no one has challenged the Chinese, who seem to focus more on the team event than the singles. (Japan lost 0-3 in the last one)

  13. yuri.saldon is offline
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    #53
    Quote Originally Posted by Raylazyfo
    I agree Japan and Korea have a handful of very promising juniors (I think harimoto could win a few major titles).
    But the question is whether any nation can beat china in the team event. There have been lots of great individual players from other countries (samsanov, boll, ryu seung min, schlager) but ever since the swedes in 2000 no one has challenged the Chinese, who seem to focus more on the team event than the singles. (Japan lost 0-3 in the last one)
    Lost 1-3 in Olympics, Jun mizutani won against xu xin

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  14. Suga D is offline
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    #54
    Quote Originally Posted by Eli Baraty
    i saw and know of Ochsenhausen, its an amazing place but i feel they lack true belief (read their website and you'll see they on speak of europe) secondly they do not cater for Female players and thirdly they do not cater for very young player.
    but what it currently is (its a dream for any aspiring tt player
    I think it's a bit swabian understatement. But i have to agree, they don't even have a women's team. I hope they try to also keep an eye on females as well.
    But for defence, the situation on female tabletennis is quite serious. The number of players has been decreasing more than on the male side and coaches have a hard time finding new talents. Also it's even more difficult to keep them in the sport after they turn sixteen/seventeen...
    I believe this situation doesn't sound unfamiliar.

    Interestingly, on the countryside where the social binding is stronger than in the big cities female players seem to 'survive' a little longer and hence the clubs are doing better.
    In fact if you look at the first women's Bundesliga you will find many names of towns you haven't heard of...

    But maybe if Petrissa Solja will win a major event then german female tabletennis might hopefully get a boost. Until then the situation is pretty serious. IMHO

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  15. vaggelinho is offline
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    #55
    I think this is very difficult right now. The main reason is that China sees Table tennis as their national sport. In other countries ,table tennis is not a sport that will provide you enough to spend the rest of your life even if you are one of the best. As many others said, young athletes tend to focus on other goals that eventually will give them way more than focusing on table tennis will ever do.

  16. Zaid323918 is offline
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    #56
    Quote Originally Posted by leatherback01
    I truly believe that it isn't purely about infrastructure or talent pools or even keeping the kids at the age of 18...although they all play a factor.....right now we use Chinese coaches and leagues and training facilities to learn from the best...which leads to very good foundations....however we can't just repeat China's style and expect to win...they have several great advantages.

    1. The sheer amount of people willing to play.....even if you got every person in my entire country (Canada) to want to play pro table tennis you couldn't compete with the numbers. And then everyone of those players has the regional, provincial and national coaching that we all want already ingrained into their system.

    2. Chinese coaches and high level players exported are great...they have a wealth of experience and we can learn lots from them....however if we think that we are getting Chinese players and coaches that could have bettered their own national team, we are dreaming. We get players that couldn't make it! Their cast offs can coach and teach us the fundamentals just as well as liu guoliang, bit they do not know what it is like to be on the top.

    3. They have NO fall back. We always have the ability to go to school and make something of ourselves if we don't make it in table tennis. (Which we won't so we already are preparing). In China the kids are recognized as having talent from a very young age (which we can do as well) then they are put into sports schools (which we can also do but it is a bit rarer) and then the race begins. If they don't make it in table tennis they can't change their minds and go be an engineer there....they will end up in basic poverty for their life.....its a do or die thing.


    I believe there is a way to beat China. Sweden did it. Michael Maze did it (for one tournament), and the very odd European player has a good run against them by doing it.

    It's called being original.

    Sweden came out with a style designed to defeat the fast attackers. It was take a step back and let the ball slow down a and counter loop. When China realized this was winning they did what they always do and imitated them but they could never defeat the original as they didn't have the players to go back and practice against. Sweden stayed at the top. Being the best at this. Until they decided to let kong linghui decided to go train in Sweden to learn the style....then he went back to China and everyone practiced against him as Sweden began to age and that began the decline.

    Michael maze went through almost three top Chinese players in a tournament that were destroying the rest of Europe by LOBBING of all things....they just hadn't seen it and hadn't practiced against it. They clearly went home. Practiced against lobbers until the cows came home and never lost to them again....(this is less of an example then Sweden but I'm leading to my main point...)

    First. You need a solid foundation. As solid as the Chinese get. Solid foot work solid shots from both sides of the table etc etc.

    Then....you have to stop thinking that you can beat China at their own game. We cannot.

    We have to do something they haven't seen. And when stacked with a world class foundation...it becomes a weapon....

    For example...(I'm no world class coach...but...). What about a grip change that allows for more angles on shots. What about using a type of rubber that everyone thinks is a disadvantage but you learn to use it in a way that it isn't. What about instead of worrying about counter looping you stay at the table and angle block much to you Chinese coaches dismay! and use your opponents power against him.....

    These are just ideas of a ranter....but China will do what China has always done best. They will imitate. They will not originate.

    IMHO....China's players now are faster more powerful Waldners with the exception of a few insane freaks.

    Let's originate.



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    I agree with you on most of what you said. The Chinese don't just imitate, they perfect the technique. For example, flicking was invented by a European player. (Werner Schlager or Kreanga) However, their flicks were nothing compared FZD's. In fact no player ttoday can flick better than him. The same goes for ML's looping. (No player can compete with him in this) Another point I would like to make is that with banning speed glue and switching to 40mm plastic balls, Europe has made it more difficult for themselves. Europe changes the rules trying to get an advantage and China adapts first and adapts properly. All top European players use tenison rubber on both FH and BH. But chinese player's use a chinese style rubber at least on their forehands. These rubbers don't give you has much spin and speed on a slow or medium stroke. But on a hard stroke you get more. You can see EmRatThich's videos about table tennis

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    #57
    Who created shikita was petr korbel.

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  18. phillypong is offline
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    #58
    Quote Originally Posted by Tony's Table Tennis
    Some facts/history

    Chinese coach goes to Belgium (at first treated as a traitor) - result - World Champion over China
    Sweden's Greats - dominated China
    Austrian surprise - world champion over China
    German super start - world cup winner over China
    Korean footwork stars - 1998, 2004 Olympic champion over China

    Over the pass 20 years, we have seen quite a lot of facts and to me, that could only be a start.

    The rule changes, equipment changes etc has made it more challenging for all players.
    I think if each of the top 10 countries can have "More" top players, then the result could be really different.
    Its doable for sure
    Lets not forget that the use of speed glue was a very important factor in the success of the Swedes and the Belgians , togehter with the 38 mm celluloid ball it was possible for players to generate massive speed and spin.
    The Chinese were overpowered by this material combo ! And of course the fact that there was an exceptional generation of players (Waldner, Persson, Appelgren, ...) all at the same time.

    Also the dedication is not as with the Chinese players, i know for a fact that our national team players (Belgium) drink alcohol like CRAZY when they go party. I guess they already are at the level they want to be (playing professionally) and getting enough attention from the ladies ...

  19. vik is offline
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    #59
    Now without 3 best players will be beaten

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