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    #1

    Donic Baracuda vs Butterfly Tenergy 05

    I read that there are similarities and that the t05 is faster. But what about other properties like spin, spin sensitvity,grip,throw, and weight?

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    #2
    Why are you asking?
    Cobra Kai TT Exponent - No mercy in this dojo, no matter your rating or the score. All spin, no power or footwork.

    "We don't rise to the level of our expectations, we fall to the level of our training" - Archilochus

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    #3
    i am interested as well

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    #4
    I am interested too

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    #5
    Based on my experience,
    speed : B<T
    Spin : B<T
    Spin sensivity : B<T
    grip : B<T
    Throw : B=<T
    Weight : B<T
    Hardness : B=<T
    topsheet quality : B<T
    Cost : B<T
    "level requiement" : B<T

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    #6
    Not satisfied with the Baracuda ?

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    #7
    The comparison doesn't do much IMO unless you know what someone is trying to do. Shinhyun does a decent job though I might quibble with one or two things.
    Cobra Kai TT Exponent - No mercy in this dojo, no matter your rating or the score. All spin, no power or footwork.

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    #8
    and my experience:
    speed : B<T

    Spin : B>T
    Spin sensivity : B>T
    grip : B<T
    Throw : B>=T
    Weight : B<T
    Hardness : B<T
    topsheet quality : B<T
    Cost : B<T
    "level requiement" : B<T

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    #9
    Thx for your imput. Spin, spin sensitivity and throw must be close! I think its better for me to stay with baracuda cause I have sometimes already control issues and its cheaper too

    Is it the speed that define the degree of difficulty of tensors and tenergies?

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    #10
    Yeah I know, I wanted to do something quickly to satisfy him

    I used the same blade for the comparison (tb alc) and I also asked some high level players too.

    These stats depend to the technique too ! So that's I said "based on my experience"

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    #11
    No it is many things ! I think that the degree of difficulty depend on how difficult it is to understand how this rubber works.

    The 1st of my club has baracuda max each side so you can keep working on it, it is a very very good rubber !!

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    Last edited by shinhyun; 11-21-2016 at 04:37 PM.

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    #12
    Whenever I see these as separate data points:
    1. Spin
    2. Spin Sensitivity
    3. Grip

    It always raises an eyebrow. Because of the laws of physics. Or perhaps it's a difference in interpretation, semantics, and what not.

    NextLevel once recommended Barracuda as a slower T05, and to me, that's exactly what it is. It might be a little grippier/spinnier/spin sensitive, which for all intents and purposes are the same thing. I can understand spin-sensitivity being a separate category if you specify the situation (aka sensitive in short game, during blocks, etc).

    But Grip vs. Spin? These threads are funny as hell.

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    #13
    It depends. A tacky or semi tacky rubber grips the ball better than a regular spinny rubber but a regular rubber can still impart more spin (if you take into account that the tacky rubber removes some of the spin on the ball while the ball is leaving the rubber).

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    #14
    Quote Originally Posted by shinhyun
    Based on my experience,
    speed : B<T
    Spin : B<T
    Spin sensivity : B<T
    grip : B<T
    Throw : B=<T
    Weight : B<T
    Hardness : B=<T
    topsheet quality : B<T
    Cost : B<T
    "level requiement" : B<T
    Spot on comparison. I totally agree.
    T seems to be softer than B; and T has more catapult than B. B would be a good replacement for T if you are on a tight budget.

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    #15
    Quote Originally Posted by anchorschmidt
    It depends. A tacky or semi tacky rubber grips the ball better than a regular spinny rubber but a regular rubber can still impart more spin (if you take into account that the tacky rubber removes some of the spin on the ball while the ball is leaving the rubber).
    Maybe, but that is all subject to semantics, situation, and technique. I don't think Ma Long would describe his H3 as less "spinny" than his Tenergy because it's tacky. And also, one must consider the stroke and situation? In serving, I find tacky rubbers to be the spinniest. Or are we tacking about drive loops? Here maybe less "grippy" rubbers become more "grippy" and more "spinny" and "spin sensitive" because of the synergy between sponge and topsheet. Or blocks? Depends on how much pace was given by the opponent. Does it sink into the sponge? Does it just spin against the topsheet?

    As a chopper, i found tacky hard rubbers the easiest to chop with because they are less prone reacting to sidespin, where as grippy, non-tacky soft rubbers that rely on mechanical grip tend to react heavily (like Vega Europe for example). But nobody would describe Vega Europe as spin-sensitive at the table.

    Yes, I'm being an insufferable devil's advocate here for sure, but I can't tell you how many times people have told me "X" was grippier, or spinnier, or more spin sensitive than "Y" but when I actually hit with it, I find the exact opposite. Too many variables with those 3 terms, as well as a difference in interpretation. I guess what I'm getting at is that context is important when rating rubbers characteristics.

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    #16
    The complexity is built into any complex experience in life. Objective properties interact with subjective user characteristics. Other than being aware of and trying to reduce the limitations, you can't do much else. It's part of the reason I ask about playing style and level.

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    Cobra Kai TT Exponent - No mercy in this dojo, no matter your rating or the score. All spin, no power or footwork.

    "We don't rise to the level of our expectations, we fall to the level of our training" - Archilochus

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    #17
    Seeing the OP is still active, I will have a stab at this.

    There is nothing wrong with the OP using those terms. Grip and spin, in particular, are related but not identical. Grip is largely determined by coefficient of friction(COF), which is different for static and dynamic actions. Spin, OTOH, is largely determined by tangential coefficient of restitution(COR). The effect of those two combined then determines the throw and spin sensitivity.

    All together they pretty much explain the different behaviors between tacky and grippy rubbers, and that is also why Japanese tensioned rubbers and Germany Tensor rubbers behave differently.

    With the physics part out of the way, let's get to the EJ part.

    Baracuda was, among others such as Hexer/Genius/Xplode/Vega Pro/Rakza 7/Fastarc G-1 etc., ESN's 1st wave of porous sponge copycat after Tenergy. These Tensors were distinctly different from the previous generations. All Tensors up till that point(circa 2008) had always been the symbol of speed. That wave marked the 1st time for Tensors to break away from that tradition. They were spinnier than they were fast. They produced turtle shots that'd make you holler laaba. A positive side effect of that is in the improved short games which had been an issue. Where they came up short they made up with the monstrous spin. Even better, they have improved a ton on durability and longevity. They might not perform as well and as long as Tenergy, but they also cost way less. Though it must be stressed they still don't play and/or feel the same as Tenergy. Think of it as a secondary option rather than a substitute or alternative.

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    Last edited by zeio; 01-24-2018 at 06:01 AM.

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    #18
    Quote Originally Posted by zeio
    Seeing the OP is still active, I will have a stab at this.

    There is nothing wrong with the OP using those terms. Grip and spin, in particular, are related but not identical. Grip is largely determined by coefficient of friction(COF), which is different for static and dynamic actions. Spin, OTOH, is largely determined by tangential coefficient of restitution(COR). The effect of those two combined then determines the throw and spin sensitivity.

    All together they pretty much explain the different behaviors between tacky and grippy rubbers, and that is also why Japanese tensioned rubbers and Germany Tensor rubbers behave differently.

    With the physics part out of the way, let's get to the EJ part.

    Baracuda was, among others such as Hexer/Genius/Xplode/Vega Pro/Rakza 7/Fastarc G-1 etc., ESN's 1st wave of porous sponge copycat after Tenergy. These Tensors were distinctly different from the previous generations. All Tensors up till that point(circa 2008) had always been the symbol of speed. That wave marked the 1st time for Tensors to break away from that tradition. They were spinnier than they were fast. They produced turtle shots that'd make you holler laaba. A positive side effect of that is in the improved short games which had been an issue. Where they came up short they made up with the monstrous spin. Even better, they have improved a ton on durability and longevity. They might not perform as well and as long as Tenergy, but they also cost way less. Though it must be stressed they still don't play and/or feel the same as Tenergy. Think of it as a secondary option rather than a substitute or alternative.
    hot dannngg wow! now this is table tennis porn he he if ever there's something like that. It will take me a few days to fully assimilate all this, let it marinate in my numb skull for a while, maybe someday I'll understand all of it he he he.

    That's why I love poking around this site. Lots of yummy stuff! Just love the nuances and dynamics Zeio creates.

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    #19
    Hi All!
    This post is getting really serious!
    I played with both rubbers, also their softer versions (FX/Big Slam).
    For me Baracuda is a way cheaper and lighter sheet, with very good durability. The speed is lesser, a tempo I would say, but the angle of the hits and the general behavior of the rubber is identical. Because it is a bit less bouncy and slower it is easier to generate high spin opening loops and serves. It is also notable that because of the speed difference service handling/receive is a bit better (shorter). But this all comes at a cost. Your balls will be a bit slower and less aggressive, their flight curve will be very predictable. With modern ESN tensors the loops and ball bounces are a bit more aggressive and more unpredictable. So if you are an experienced player, you have to focus a bit more on your shots to put a bit extra force and still your rallies will be 1-2 hits longer.

    When playing against T05 and Baracuda (and also Xiom Omega IV, V, JOOLA MAXXX 500) versions you really have to watch the spin. On backspin serves against these rubbers I cannot push the serves aggressively or flick them, because they have a very heavy spin, so I just lift them early. The same goes to opening loops, they have to be blocked early and really flat or they will fly off the table. But against Baracuda sometimes it is easier due to the lack of incoming speed of the ball.

    So I would say today Baracuda is more suited to an Allround or Allround+ game if you are an intermediate player. If you have more experience and a faster blade like TB ALC Offensive- is the most you can aim for strategy.

    Also boosting the Baracuda makes it a fast (nearly equal to T05) and a bit more aggressive rubber, but it soaks up much oil, making the weight identical also.

    I really feel sorry for DONIC, that they do not upgrade the Baracuda with a modern ESN sponge, because the topsheet of that rubber is extraordinary.
    Last edited by qvoliszz; 01-31-2018 at 08:54 AM. Reason: typo

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