Jab/Shovel Service video

Translation would be very useful.

Amazing!! Thank you so much. Please, please add translation. I don't understand a thing
His motion is really deceptive for me, I can't read the spin correctly the first few times even with slow motion.

Brief translation added.

Originally Posted by ttpshot

Service tutorial video by one of the best server in Japan.
Will add the translation if anyone is interested.

1:15 For Topspin serve to look like backspin, the racket needs to start higher than the ball at the back swing. During the downward motion, cock the wrist to lower the racket head then uncock to impart topspin at the contact.

1:27 *Topspin disguised as backspin

1:53 Disguise it as backspin with scooping motion at the follow through.

2:23 *Backspin disguised as backspin

2:30 *Backspin disguised as topspin

2:41 For backspin server to look like topspin, start the racket from below the ball at the back swing. At the contact, cut the ball then have upwards follow through.

3:07 Vertical racket angle at the impact and swing from up to down.

3:13 As little downward follow through as possible to disguise it as topspin.

3:30 *Topspin disguised as topspin

3:52 Tactics: If the opponent swings hard, I tend to use topspin serve more. Vice versa for backspin serve.

4:19 *No spin

4:56 Tilt the racket forward so that the service looks like topspin.

Amazing Tutorial, ttpshot!
Thanks a lot for sharing and translating.
[To keep up OSPH's nice vibe] domo arigato gozaimashita.

That video is actually showing what i have been trying to describe in words on the chit chat thread a couple of days ago and makes it better understandable.

That is some high-level deceiption here. I think one of the best tutorials i've seen so far.

And the part in the end, where the player tries to receive is exactly the scenario my clubmates and me had when Keini wanted us to receive his serves.

Originally Posted by Suga D

Tareq, see it's all about deceiptiveness here.
If you use a different kind of serve with different kind of spin, a smart and experienced opponent will find out quickly and the whole effect of the serve will be out the window.

Whereas if you use the same kind of motion but vary the spin it will be much more difficult to read 'cause everything happens in a split second and you have to observe closely.

Maybe practicing with a higher level player will show you what we're trying to explain to you.

When we had Thomas Keinath coaching us, in the end of the practice session he let everyone receive five serves. If one didn't observe closely one could easily get fooled by this, 'cause he used five times nearly the same motion but each time it had different spin.
Side-top spin
Side-back spin
Pure side spin one way
Pure side spin the other way
Pure back spin.
And even higher level players sometimes fail to read the spin properly.

Timo Boll once said after he played against Waldner that sometimes all he could do was guess, 'cause he was unable to read it properly.

Same thing was said about Werner Schlager's serves.
Even high level players could sometimes only guess....

And exactly THIS is the reason why those top level players mostly use the same looking motion, 'cause the serves look the same even though they're NOT!

Watching your vid should become mandatory for learning how to serve efficiently IMHO.
Thanks for taking time to translate this for us.

Originally Posted by Suga D

Amazing Tutorial, ttpshot!
Thanks a lot for sharing and translating.
[To keep up OSPH's nice vibe] domo arigato gozaimashita.

That video is actually showing what i have been trying to describe in words on the chit chat thread a couple of days ago and makes it better understandable.

That is some high-level deceiption here. I think one of the best tutorials i've seen so far.

And the part in the end, where the player tries to receive is exactly the scenario my clubmates and me had when Keini wanted us to receive his serves.


Watching your vid should become mandatory for learning how to serve efficiently IMHO.
Thanks for taking time to translate this for us.

Glad you liked it!
This video was done in conjunction with TT magazine in Japan where everything is explained more in details.
I can't paste the article here(for obvious reasons), but some of the tips provided there were:

-Hard to read service is better than spinny service
-Don't grip the racket hard and stay relaxed throughout
-Record yourself serving because how you appear to your opponent is more important
-Mix a little side spin so that the topspin/back spin is harder to read

His services is good enough to be called into Japanese national training center to teach NT members so I'm sure there's more secrets and tips but this is more than enough(at least for me).

Here's server in action. Estimated rating is around 2500 in JTTA.

That's the case when you have to forget looking his movement and just watch the ball. He's really good at disguising!

Originally Posted by ttpshot

Glad you liked it!
This video was done in conjunction with TT magazine in Japan where everything is explained more in details.
I can't paste the article here(for obvious reasons), but some of the tips provided there were:

-Hard to read service is better than spinny service
-Don't grip the racket hard and stay relaxed throughout
-Record yourself serving because how you appear to your opponent is more important
-Mix a little side spin so that the topspin/back spin is harder to read

His services is good enough to be called into Japanese national training center to teach NT members so I'm sure there's more secrets and tips but this is more than enough(at least for me).

Here's server in action. Estimated rating is around 2500 in JTTA.

Thanks again for sharing.

I can agree to every single advice you have given.
I've heard pretty much the same from other coaches as well. Thanks for pointing this out.

I do wonder though how your National rating translates into german TTR.
But I think it should be possible to translate since so many japanese players have been playing or even still are playing in the TTBL.

I have to show your video to my coach. I believe he will love it...

Originally Posted by Suga D

Thanks again for sharing.

I can agree to every single advice you have given.
I've heard pretty much the same from other coaches as well. Thanks for pointing this out.

I do wonder though how your National rating translates into german TTR.
But I think it should be possible to translate since so many japanese players have been playing or even still are playing in the TTBL.

I have to show your video to my coach. I believe he will love it...

The rating system is not very popular in Japan so his rating is estimated based on JTTA's guidline(2500=3rd/4th round of the national tournament).

i find it hard to get a really "meaty" contact to create optimum spin.

since i am not that tall, getting topspin is also a little awkward.

it does seem to be quite a tricky and hard to read serve, albeit not excessively spinny like doing a plain pendulum serve

And exactly that unexpected topspin can create an easy pop up for one....

Originally Posted by ttpshot

They're really hard aren't they?

One other tip is that these service motion don't "brush" the ball much. It's more like chops or speed loops so you may notice that most of his services are long because spin is imparted by hitting the ball in short stroke.

thanks for the tip. I think maybe I didn't hit the ball hard enough. And I tried too hard to generate topspin, now think about it, it seems to have more sidespin then topspin. I'll keep practicing anyway, I like these serves for a very long time and this is the first time I see such a good video tutorial about them and how effective they can be. Thanks again.

Originally Posted by NextLevel

What they mean when they say deception is more important than spin is that sometimes, you can generate a lot of spin but if it is obvious, the returner might compensate easily for it. It doesn't mean that the serves are not very spinny - they clearly are. But in this case, it is more a light topspin or a side topspin than a pure heavy topspin. If you have no spin but your opponents push the ball, you are on the right path.

The other thing is that usually, if two serves look the same, one of the serves is very spinny (if they are short, this is usually the backspin serve) and the topspin serve is then not very heavy topspin, but just something that you pop up if you get fooled and try to return it like you would the backspin serve.

you are right, I think if I can make the backspin serve a little more spinny and the other serve no spin or side spin, it will work even if I can't generate much topspin. Thanks.

Originally Posted by ttpshot

Service tutorial video by one of the best server in Japan.
Will add the translation if anyone is interested.

1:15 For Topspin serve to look like backspin, the racket needs to start higher than the ball at the back swing. During the downward motion, cock the wrist to lower the racket head then uncock to impart topspin at the contact.

1:27 *Topspin disguised as backspin

1:53 Disguise it as backspin with scooping motion at the follow through.

2:23 *Backspin disguised as backspin

2:30 *Backspin disguised as topspin

2:41 For backspin server to look like topspin, start the racket from below the ball at the back swing. At the contact, cut the ball then have upwards follow through.

3:07 Vertical racket angle at the impact and swing from up to down.

3:13 As little downward follow through as possible to disguise it as topspin.

3:30 *Topspin disguised as topspin

3:52 Tactics: If the opponent swings hard, I tend to use topspin serve more. Vice versa for backspin serve.

4:19 *No spin

4:56 Tilt the racket forward so that the service looks like topspin.

Great tutorial,a lot to learn. Thanks for sharing

Great tutorial. The translation is helpful ,but its a pity the subtitles are not available in English. Apart from that, brilliantly deceptive serves.