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    1. Top | #21
      gmiller2233 is offline
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      Great post thanks!


      Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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    3. Top | #22
      FloKing is offline
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      @ttpshot Many many thanks! The video combined with your subtitles is a fantastic tutorial!

      I spent today about half an hour working on one of the serves.
      Guys, could you tell which spin does it look to you? Under, side or top??


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      Jirrex (02-11-2017),NextLevel (02-10-2017),Suga D (02-11-2017),ttpshot (02-10-2017)

    5. Top | #23
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      LOL @ 1.47 he actually puts sideunder spin and not side top. he contacts underneath the ball.
      Last edited by TTFrenzy; 02-10-2017 at 02:54 PM.
      I suck real bad so I train to suck less

    6. Top | #24
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      Quote Originally Posted by TTFrenzy View Post
      LOL @ 1.47 he actually puts sideunder spin and not side top. he contacts underneath the ball.
      Isn't that the intent?
      Cobra Kai TT Exponent - No mercy in this dojo, no matter your rating or the score. All spin, no power or footwork.

    7. Top | #25
      SchemeSC is offline
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      The serve at 1:47 looks like a topspin serve to me. That's what it says in the very first post in ttpshots description. But I'm terrible at reading spin so dont go by me.
      Last edited by SchemeSC; 02-10-2017 at 03:31 PM.

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    9. Top | #26
      TTFrenzy is offline
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      Quote Originally Posted by NextLevel View Post
      Isn't that the intent?
      well,
      in translation it says topspin disguised as underspin. my guess is his contact was a tiny little bit off cause he is really trying to snap his wrist fast after contact in order to disguise it, but he ended up adding some underspin. The underspin imparted is very low so maybe after the bounce the rotation is pure sidespin. Quite an interesting technique will definitely try it out cause many players at my level have trouble with this serve

      Cant tell for sure though how much under it has, his wrist motion is really fast even in the slow motion

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      SchemeSC (02-10-2017)

    11. Top | #27
      TTFrenzy is offline
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      Quote Originally Posted by ttpshot View Post
      Service tutorial video by one of the best server in Japan.
      Will add the translation if anyone is interested.

      1:15 For Topspin serve to look like backspin, the racket needs to start higher than the ball at the back swing. During the downward motion, cock the wrist to lower the racket head then uncock to impart topspin at the contact.

      1:27 *Topspin disguised as backspin

      1:53 Disguise it as backspin with scooping motion at the follow through.

      2:23 *Backspin disguised as backspin

      2:30 *Backspin disguised as topspin

      2:41 For backspin server to look like topspin, start the racket from below the ball at the back swing. At the contact, cut the ball then have upwards follow through.

      3:07 Vertical racket angle at the impact and swing from up to down.

      3:13 As little downward follow through as possible to disguise it as topspin.

      3:30 *Topspin disguised as topspin

      3:52 Tactics: If the opponent swings hard, I tend to use topspin serve more. Vice versa for backspin serve.

      4:19 *No spin

      4:56 Tilt the racket forward so that the service looks like topspin.

      Alittle help here please, what does he (or you) mean by underspin disguised as underspin and topspin as topspin? Isnt it pointless?

    12. Top | #28
      FloKing is offline
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      Quote Originally Posted by FloKing View Post
      @ttpshot Many many thanks! The video combined with your subtitles is a fantastic tutorial!

      I spent today about half an hour working on one of the serves.
      Guys, could you tell which spin does it look to you? Under, side or top??

      Could you give me your toughts please? I would like to know if I get the deception right

    13. Top | #29
      SchemeSC is offline
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      Name:  Screenshot 2017-02-10 11.51.43.jpg
Views: 379
Size:  16.4 KB

      Here's what I THINK is the moment of contact for the serve at 1:47. It's hard for me to imagine that this racket angle could produce a ball that has any type of underspin on it by the time it reaches the receiver. I think most of the wrist action (scoop)is happening after the ball is already off the racket.

    14. Top | #30
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      Quote Originally Posted by SchemeSC View Post
      Name:  Screenshot 2017-02-10 11.51.43.jpg
Views: 379
Size:  16.4 KB

      Here's what I THINK is the moment of contact for the serve at 1:47. It's hard for me to imagine that this racket angle could produce a ball that has any type of underspin on it by the time it reaches the receiver. I think most of the wrist action (scoop)is happening after the ball is already off the racket.
      Yes inded he does that in order to disguise the serve as underspin BUT if you look again and again he rushes to begin hiswrist snap and his timing is a little to early so he brushes a little underneat the ball.

      His wrist motion is definitely great , dont wanna be a semantics "nazi" but this serve is resulting in sidespin disguised as sideunder, there is nowhere topspin in it. The purpose is to get a push with an open racket if the receiver is fooled and thinks there is mostly underspin whereas it has pure sidespin so the ball will popup for a 3rd ball attack. His intention was to brush to the side of the ball and he got it a little off

      I want to try a side with a little bit of underspin in it with a coloured ball so I can see what happens after the 2nd bounce. Maybe my observation has no significance because at some serves lets say "90 % side 10 % under" after the 2nd bounce the ball starts to rotate sideways but the tempo is definitely slower compared to side/sidetop serve and may also fool the receiver
      Last edited by TTFrenzy; 02-10-2017 at 09:40 PM.

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    16. Top | #31
      TTFrenzy is offline
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      Quote Originally Posted by FloKing View Post
      Could you give me your toughts please? I would like to know if I get the deception right

      asdsad

      From that camera angle I cant tell which serve is what so I guess your wrist motion is great. Lower your body in coordination with the ball or wait for the ball to fall on net height, your serves are too high

    17. Top | #32
      NextLevel is offline
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      Quote Originally Posted by TTFrenzy View Post
      Yes inded he does that in order to disguise the serve as underspin BUT if you look again and again he rushes to begin hiswrist snap and his timing is a little to early so he brushes a little underneat the ball.

      His wrist motion is definitely great , dont wanna be a semantics "nazi" but this serve is resulting in sidespin disguised as sideunder, there is nowhere topspin in it. The purpose is to get a push with an open racket if the receiver is fooled and thinks there is mostly underspin whereas it has pure sidespin so the ball will popup for a 3rd ball attack. His intention was to brush to the side of the ball and he got it a little off

      I want to try a side with a little bit of underspin in it with a coloured ball so I can see what happens after the 2nd bounce. Maybe my observation has no significance because at some serves lets say "90 % side 10 % under" after the 2nd bounce the ball starts to rotate sideways but the tempo is definitely slower compared to sideunder serve and may also fool the receiver

      You are a semantics Nazi. Most sidespin serves appear as top to the receiver.

    18. Top | #33
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      Quote Originally Posted by NextLevel View Post
      You are a semantics Nazi. Most sidespin serves appear as top to the receiver.

      hahahaha
      ok!

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    20. Top | #34
      FloKing is offline
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      Quote Originally Posted by FloKing View Post
      Could you give me your toughts please? I would like to know if I get the deception right
      My training video was not a success. The answer was top spin disguised as back spin. It is the first serve described in the video, the serve you are talking about. I do not manage to execute top spin every time, so it is frequently side spin.
      I wanted to know whether it could have tricked you into a back spin serve. I have not tried it with a real opponent yet.

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    22. Top | #35
      ttpshot is offline
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      Quote Originally Posted by TTFrenzy View Post
      Alittle help here please, what does he (or you) mean by underspin disguised as underspin and topspin as topspin? Isnt it pointless?
      At the end of the movie, you see the other player receiving the serve. It's used after the receiver puts one in the net misreading the topspin. It basically means that the underspin serve in same serving motion.

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    24. Top | #36
      TTFrenzy is offline
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      Quote Originally Posted by ttpshot View Post
      At the end of the movie, you see the other player receiving the serve. It's used after the receiver puts one in the net misreading the topspin. It basically means that the underspin serve in same serving motion.
      Yes thats why I asked, it was probably a mistake by the OP. Underspin disguised as underspin does not make any sense.

    25. Top | #37
      TTFrenzy is offline
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      Quote Originally Posted by ttpshot View Post
      At the end of the movie, you see the other player receiving the serve. It's used after the receiver puts one in the net misreading the topspin. It basically means that the underspin serve in same serving motion.

      Yes I think,

      your motion before and after contact is just fine. You have to be extremely talented to disguise PURE underspin as PURE topspin and vice versa. Its much easier to add the sidespin on both occasions so the opponent keeps guessing if it is sidetopspin or sideunderspin or even pure sidespin . Just try to hit the ball lower on net height level, even if you add lots of underspin your serves are way too high so you give the receiver more time to react and also attacking chances with a flick or flick "minismash"

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    27. Top | #38
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      Quote Originally Posted by iammaru View Post
      I tried his topspin disguised as backspin serve (1:27) today, it's really hard. I can't seem to generate any kind of topspin, it's no spin all the time. He made it look so easy ) Has anyone has tried and successfully copied that serve? Any other tips? Thanks

      I've watched like 100 times and still amazed how much topspin he generates with that motion.
      If you're not getting as much spin on a serve as you should, if you've seen more spin from others, start your motion later than you usually do.

    28. Top | #39
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      Quote Originally Posted by TTFrenzy View Post
      Yes inded he does that in order to disguise the serve as underspin BUT if you look again and again he rushes to begin hiswrist snap and his timing is a little to early so he brushes a little underneat the ball.

      His wrist motion is definitely great , dont wanna be a semantics "nazi" but this serve is resulting in sidespin disguised as sideunder, there is nowhere topspin in it. The purpose is to get a push with an open racket if the receiver is fooled and thinks there is mostly underspin whereas it has pure sidespin so the ball will popup for a 3rd ball attack. His intention was to brush to the side of the ball and he got it a little off

      I want to try a side with a little bit of underspin in it with a coloured ball so I can see what happens after the 2nd bounce. Maybe my observation has no significance because at some serves lets say "90 % side 10 % under" after the 2nd bounce the ball starts to rotate sideways but the tempo is definitely slower compared to side/sidetop serve and may also fool the receiver
      In my experience, the way this kind of serve is deceptive because 1. your arm comes more from behind the body so receiver can't see it until later and less of it, this little bit is important to how they prepare if you can serve to different locations 2. the spin deception is not back vs side or top, but back vs on-axis. Real side is easier to see because how you must angle the racket different to contact the side, but back and axis are similar racket angle from receiver perspective.

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    30. Top | #40
      tropical is offline
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      In my club there is one player who is the master of this serve. I used to beat him 8 years ago before he knew the serve. Now I lose to him just too easy! Even the pips has problem not making the return low enough. Very good and deceptive serve, very high level and hard to execute.

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