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    1. Top | #1
      doraemon is offline
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      Possible DONIC Timo Boll ALC, Timo Boll Spirit, Viscaria, Zhang Jike ALC alternatives

      Has anyone tried each of the three obvious Donic alternatives for the popular koto-alc-ayous-kiri-ayous-alc-koto blades?
      1. Ovtcharov True Carbon- Pricey, but seems really good. No description on whether carbon is woven with arylate or some other alternative
      2. Baum Esprit- No one seems to like it, as the whole thing seems cheap and bad quality... Aramid carbon used instead of ALC, else everything is roughly the same
      3. Zhou Yu 3- New blade, seems to be only available in Japan, apparently made in Japan, no reviews. As above, Aramid carbon instead of arylate carbon.


      I understand that aramid is not EXACTLY the same as Arylate, but I don't think the difference would be that great anyway...anyway, the difference in the trees where the wood comes from would probably make just as much difference!

      Also, a note that I am not interested in the Chinese clones....

      Anyway, what are your thoughts about these blades? I am interested in the Zhou Yu 3, as no one has said anything about it...

      Thanks!

    2. Top | #2
      Baal is offline
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      Pricey? Not really, certainly not compared to Butterfly ALC. How does it play? I wrote a more detailed review in the review section. DTC plays very similar to Butterfly ALC blades.

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    4. Top | #3
      doraemon is offline
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      anything compared to Butterfly ALC can never be pricey...

      maybe except for nittaku resoud....

      http://www.tabletennis11.com/other_eng/nittaku-resoud
      Last edited by doraemon; 11-23-2016 at 03:37 AM.

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    6. Top | #4
      edgy is offline
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      Lol @ the true carbon being pricey

    7. Top | #5
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      It is compared to Chinese brands ALC blades...
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    8. Top | #6
      edgy is offline
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      Also add the DHS Fang Bo B2 to the list
      Edit: nvm I just noticed the blade composition you were looking for
      Last edited by edgy; 11-23-2016 at 02:59 PM.

    9. Top | #7
      doraemon is offline
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      Quote Originally Posted by edgy View Post
      Lol @ the true carbon being pricey
      i think it is...

    10. Top | #8
      Baal is offline
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      I imagine you will probably think these are pricey also, but it is another alternative and I doubt you will find decent ALC blades for less than this. Next Level has tried one of them I think. They are reputed to be very close to Butterfly blades and they are said to be very high quality QC. I have not tried them myself but I might.

      http://www.ping-pong.tw/index.php?cPath=24_151
      Last edited by Baal; 11-24-2016 at 02:49 PM.

    11. Top | #9
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      Possible DONIC Timo Boll ALC, Timo Boll Spirit, Viscaria, Zhang Jike ALC alternatives

      Quote Originally Posted by Baal View Post
      I imagine you will probably think these are pricey also, but it is another alternative and I doubt you will find decent ALC blades for less than this. Next Level has tried one of them I think. They are reputed to be very close to Butterfly blades and they are said to be very high quality QC. I have not tried them myself but I might.

      http://www.ping-pong.tw/index.php?cPath=24_151
      That Double Day Valiant ALC Winner's handle looks a lot like a TB ALC handle. And they show a side view of the plies and it does look a lot like the plies of the Viscaria or TB ALC.

      As far as price and a blade being pricey, if you want stuff that is inexpensive just get a Yinhe blade or another brand from China and call it a day. But if you want something that is really like the Butterfly blades for less then the price of the Donic Ovtcharov True Carbon or the DDV ALC Winner may be what you are looking for.


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      Last edited by UpSideDownCarl; 11-24-2016 at 03:30 PM.
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    12. Top | #10
      Baal is offline
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      Quote Originally Posted by UpSideDownCarl View Post
      That Double Day Valiant ALC Winner's handle looks a lot like a TB ALC handle. And they show a side view of the plies and it does look a lot like the plies of the Viscaria or TB ALC.

      As far as price and a blade being pricey, if you want stuff that is inexpensive just get a Yinhe blade or another brand from China and call it a day. But if you want something that is really like the Butterfly blades for less then the price of the Donic Ovtcharov True Carbon or the DDV ALC Winner may be what you are looking for.


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      I believe that at one point they were an OEM for Btfly.

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    14. Top | #11
      laistrogian is offline
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      I don't really get why some people are looking for alternatives when the real one isn't completely un-affordable.

      Ovtcharov true carbon is $90-95. You can get a TBS for $135 or TB ALC for $150 or you can get the used ones for $90-100. The difference is around $45 to almost nothing, so why try to look for a very slightly cheaper blade when the one it tries to immitates whilst being more expensive, doesn't cost you an arm or a leg.

      I find it more understandable if you're looking for an alternative of $200-400 blade at $100 price point but if you want something similar to TB ALC or TBS, might as well grab those blade instead. Not to mention if you play FL, you can't really find a more comfortable handle then the one of these blades

    15. Top | #12
      UpSideDownCarl is online now
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      Quote Originally Posted by Baal View Post
      I believe that at one point they were an OEM for Btfly.
      That is what I have heard as well.

      If I wanted a Koto ALC blade I would be all over that Winner and the Donic True Carbon.


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    16. Top | #13
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      Possible DONIC Timo Boll ALC, Timo Boll Spirit, Viscaria, Zhang Jike ALC alternatives

      @ laistrogian:

      Baal uses the Donic True Carbon. For years he used Butterfly Viscarias. For years.

      He did not switch because of the price. He switched because, for him, it is as good and it has a handle he likes more, so, for him maybe it is even better.

      As far as Double Day Valiant, if you did not understand what OEM meant, Double Day is reported to be the outsource company that used to make the BLACK TAG Butterfly blades. I have hit with the Double Day Valiant Loop King. It was damn good. I have also hit with the DDV Terminator which is a blade that has ZLC on FH side and ALC on BH side. It was darn good too. And that DDV ALC Winner, it may be as good as the old black tag Viscarias for all we know. So, sometimes it makes sense to look for what you want.

      Baal found a blade that, for him was better than a Viscaria which had not happened in years.

      I am not sure if the OP will find what he is looking for because a Viscaria, a TB ALC, Spirit, or a ZJK ALC, for $30.00, I'm just not so sure that exists.

      But maybe what the OP is looking for is something like the Yinhe Galaxy V14 Carbokev.


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      Last edited by UpSideDownCarl; 11-24-2016 at 06:06 PM.

    17. Top | #14
      laistrogian is offline
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      Quote Originally Posted by UpSideDownCarl View Post
      @ laistrogian:

      Baal uses the Donic True Carbon. For years he used Butterfly Viscarias. For years.

      He did not switch because of the price. He switched because, for him, it is as good and it has a handle he likes more, so, for him maybe it is even better.

      As far as Double Day Valiant, if you did not understand what OEM meant, Double Day is reported to be the outsource company that used to make the BLACK TAG Butterfly blades. I have hit with the Double Day Valiant Loop King. It was damn good. I have also hit with the DDV Terminator which is a blade that has ZLC on FH side and ALC on BH side. It was darn good too. And that DDV ALC Winner, it may be as good as the old black tag Viscarias for all we know. So, sometimes it makes sense to look for what you want.

      Baal found a blade that, for him was better than a Viscaria which had not happened in years.

      I am not sure if the OP will find what he is looking for because a Viscaria, a TB ALC, Spirit, or a ZJK ALC, for $30.00, I'm just not so sure that exists.

      But maybe what the OP is looking for is something like the Yinhe Galaxy V14 Carbokev.


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      I know that baal switched to Donic OTC because of the round ST handle which makes sense to me for why he switched. But if the OP is looking for a "cheaper" blade than TBS that plays like TBS, why really bother in the first place

      You can use blades for years and years, spending an extra $50 IMO is worth every penny. Why make a gamble of trying something that's not really cheap in the first place with a chance of not liking it when you know you'll like the one you really want w/o any complaint

      I ended up getting a T05 for my BH recently because I've spent more than a year flipping between rubbers for my BH. MX-P, vega europe, rakza 7 and even tenergy 64 (got it for a good price). It always ended up with "it's lacking something".
      Last edited by laistrogian; 11-24-2016 at 07:28 PM.

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    19. Top | #15
      UpSideDownCarl is online now
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      It has sounded to me like he feels the blade itself is every bit as good.

      Besides, with blades, there are no guarantees. You can get two Viscarias and like one and not like the other. Because a blade is mostly wood there is always a range.


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    20. Top | #16
      doraemon is offline
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      Everyone has that inner cheapskate...

      It is just that I don't have the money like some others do to spend lots of money on lots of expensive blades. And usually Donic blades are extremely affordable (think WSC, Powerplay, Ovtcharov Senso V1/2 and Senso, Powercarbon), it seems kind of weird that the True Carbon is relatively so much more expensive than the others. As well as this, you can say that OTC is not expensive compared to the actual butterfly blades, but we all know the prices of butterfly blades aren't that flash...

      However, I would like to stick with the Donic brand (brand loyalty). I understand (like I think many other people do) that "substitutes" will not be exactly the same as the TBS,but to be similar is enough for me. Anyway, I am not looking to find out whether these blades are perfect replicas, but I was more interested in COMPARISON between these blades. But thanks for the discussion, and feel free to continue.

      I also feel that I should say that the REASON why I am looking for a similar blade is because I have tried other people's TB ALC's and Zhang Jike ALC's,and they feel great. I also want to go back to the koto outerply that I used to use.

    21. Top | #17
      doraemon is offline
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      Quote Originally Posted by Baal View Post
      I believe that at one point they were an OEM for Btfly.
      What exactly is OEM?

    22. Top | #18
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      Possible DONIC Timo Boll ALC, Timo Boll Spirit, Viscaria, Zhang Jike ALC alternatives

      Quote Originally Posted by doraemon View Post
      What exactly is OEM?
      If you read my earlier post I did explain it. Double Day Avenger was the Outsource Company that Butterfly used to make the Black Tag Butterfly blades.

      So a Viscaria that had a Black Tag, the metal label at the base of the handle, the blade was made by DDA.


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      Last edited by UpSideDownCarl; 11-25-2016 at 01:49 AM.

    23. Top | #19
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      Quote Originally Posted by doraemon View Post
      Everyone has that inner cheapskate...

      It is just that I don't have the money like some others do to spend lots of money on lots of expensive blades. And usually Donic blades are extremely affordable (think WSC, Powerplay, Ovtcharov Senso V1/2 and Senso, Powercarbon), it seems kind of weird that the True Carbon is relatively so much more expensive than the others. As well as this, you can say that OTC is not expensive compared to the actual butterfly blades, but we all know the prices of butterfly blades aren't that flash...

      However, I would like to stick with the Donic brand (brand loyalty). I understand (like I think many other people do) that "substitutes" will not be exactly the same as the TBS,but to be similar is enough for me. Anyway, I am not looking to find out whether these blades are perfect replicas, but I was more interested in COMPARISON between these blades. But thanks for the discussion, and feel free to continue.

      I also feel that I should say that the REASON why I am looking for a similar blade is because I have tried other people's TB ALC's and Zhang Jike ALC's,and they feel great. I also want to go back to the koto outerply that I used to use.
      Based on everything you wrote in this post you should just accept that the True Carbon is a higher quality blade and get it.

      All your inner cheapskate will do for you here is keep you from getting the right blade.


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    24. Top | #20
      doraemon is offline
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      Quote Originally Posted by UpSideDownCarl View Post
      If you read my earlier post I did explain it. Double Day Avenger was the Outsource Company that Butterfly used to make the Black Tag Butterfly blades.

      So a Viscaria that had a Black Tag, the metal label at the base of the handle, was made by DDA.


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      oops.sorry

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