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    1. Top | #41
      Baal is offline
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      Quote Originally Posted by TurboZ View Post
      OTC is thin but ZY3 is thinner. I can see the core is the same so the difference is on the top ply. ZY3 probably has the thinnest top ply I have ever seen. And they are known to be scaly so I guess they specially pick the wood used for ZY3 hence the quality can be considered higher. Also the JTTAA version of ZY3 does not come with ZY's pic on the back of handle like the China version or OTC.
      Wow. OTC top play already seems pretty thin to me. Neither of mine are scaly.

    2. Top | #42
      doraemon is offline
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      Quote Originally Posted by Baal View Post
      Wow. OTC top play already seems pretty thin to me. Neither of mine are scaly.
      what does "scaly" mean?

    3. Top | #43
      Baal is offline
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      Refers to appearance of outer ply occasionally seen on Viscaria blades (not all). Legend has it those play better. It might be true. I have owned more Viscarias than most people, and for sure my best one has that look, but it is a small effect if it is real. The picture of that new Donic blade ZY3 blade that was posted just above by TurboZ shows it beautifully. I've never seen it before on any blade other than Viscaria. It reflects angle of cutting relative to wood grain. I have had awesome Viscaia blades that don't have that look.
      Last edited by Baal; 11-29-2016 at 12:06 AM.

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    5. Top | #44
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      Quote Originally Posted by Baal View Post
      Refers to appearance of outer ply occasionally seen on Viscaria blades (not all). Legend has it those play better. It might be true. I have owned more Viscarias than most people, and for sure my best one has that look, but it is a small effect if it is real. The picture of that new Donic blade ZY3 blade that was posted just above by TurboZ shows it beautifully. I've never seen it before on any blade other than Viscaria. It reflects angle of cutting relative to wood grain. I have had awesome Viscaia blades that don't have that look.
      So it's more of a superstition sort of thing? Or if it actually does affect the performance, how so?

    6. Top | #45
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      Fish Scale pattern or three dimensional look of the grain, as Baal said is the result of a particular way of cutting the wood. It looks very nice when you see it. The cut that causes that pattern in the grain is called "quarter sawing," and wood that has been cut that way is referred to as "quartersawn."

      https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quarter_sawing

      My TB ZLF has that fish scale pattern. I got it from Michael Landers when he was sponsored by Butterfly. So, maybe it is more rare than I realized when he first gave me the blade. Maybe later I will have time to take a photo of that blade.


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    7. Top | #46
      Baal is offline
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      Quote Originally Posted by doraemon View Post
      So it's more of a superstition sort of thing? Or if it actually does affect the performance, how so?
      It is hard to really know for sure because of three things: 1. Placebo effect. 2. Small blade sample size available to most people. 3. Confirmation bias. Those are three pretty important ideas, and as a junior player it is quite possible you haven't encountered them in school (I didn't learn them until university). You can read more on Wikipedia, and I recommend it because these are really useful ideas for critical thinking skills for life in general, not just TT.

      It comes down to this: I have owned a bunch of Viscarias, but to compare a scaly one to a regular one, it should be a blind test, and I should not know which blade is which, and there should be quite a large number of blades of each group to compare (say 6-10 in each group). This is because people tend to believe a certain thing based on a preconception and tend to ignore observations that go against the expectation, while remembering the ones that support the preconception. They are not intending to be biased, it is unconscious but people do it. There is a ton of research showing that people do this. Finally a small number of observations can mislead you because of random variation. That is why we need to compare quite a few scaly ones vs quite a few regular ones. And the scaly ones are comparatively rare. I have only had two I think. One was stolen.

      So while people often say the scaly ones are better, the idea is out there on the internet, this is not something that is firmly established by any rational process.

      So we don't really know if scaly ones are better.
      Last edited by Baal; 11-29-2016 at 01:13 AM.

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    9. Top | #47
      Baal is offline
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      I should add that the idea is not crazy, because the geometry of the grain relative to the ball striking angle could conceivably affect mechanical properties of the top ply.

      But then again we have to ask, if scaly blades are better, better for whom? One thing for sure, different players tend to like different things.
      Last edited by Baal; 11-29-2016 at 01:15 AM.

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    11. Top | #48
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      Here's my old trusty partner, or as I would like to call it, "The King"

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    13. Top | #49
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      Quote Originally Posted by doraemon View Post
      Just a casual question for TurboZ- if you a Chinese Pengrip player, why would you buy the Ovtcharov True Carbon, Baum Esprit, and Zhou Yu 3, all in SHAKEHAND?
      I would say just for the fun of collection and play with a different style. The choice of shakehand blades are much wider comparing to penhold these days. Who knows may be one day I will convert but am happy playing Cpen now and still learning new things every day.

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    15. Top | #50
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      Quote Originally Posted by Baal View Post
      Wow. OTC top play already seems pretty thin to me. Neither of mine are scaly.
      A photo showing the side view of ZJK ALC, ZY3 and OTC and the thin top ply of ZY3 is obvious.
      Click image for larger version. 

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      My ZY3 Cpen has scaly top ply too.
      Click image for larger version. 

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      Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails ZY3 CP.jpg  

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    17. Top | #51
      Der_Echte is offline
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      In a few days, Next Level will tell you how Awesum or shytty Nexy Kanaph and Nexy Hanibal are. I will kick him kneecaps if he hates on those great blades, perfectly the Hinoki greatness he requests.

      I have great wins using both.

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    19. Top | #52
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      Quote Originally Posted by Der_Echte View Post
      In a few days, Next Level will tell you how Awesum or shytty Nexy Kanaph and Nexy Hanibal are. I will kick him kneecaps if he hates on those great blades, perfectly the Hinoki greatness he requests.
      Kicking me in the only place where it doesn't make my body worse isn't much of a threat, is it?

      Seriously, was looking for ALC and Hinoki in an OFF-/OFF blade. Carbon is okay but I usually like it with arylate as the vibrations can cause pain over time. If they can beat Innerforce ALC, they will be fine.

      Wonder when Donic will do a Maze/Freitas clone. The only koto blade I have ever used for a good extended period was Vega Euro.
      Cobra Kai TT Exponent - No mercy in this dojo, no matter your rating or the score. All spin, no power or footwork.

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    21. Top | #53
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      True Carbon in stock at Dandoy for $71.51 (http://www.dandoy-sports.com/donic-o...ue-carbon.html). In stock at Madison Sports for almost the same price (http://tabletennis-sportsmadison.com...ue-carbon.html).

      Surprised that people find that to be "pricey".

    22. Top | #54
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      Quote Originally Posted by NextLevel View Post
      Kicking me in the only place where it doesn't make my body worse isn't much of a threat, is it?

      Seriously, was looking for ALC and Hinoki in an OFF-/OFF blade. Carbon is okay but I usually like it with arylate as the vibrations can cause pain over time. If they can beat Innerforce ALC, they will be fine.

      Wonder when Donic will do a Maze/Freitas clone. The only koto blade I have ever used for a good extended period was Vega Euro.
      Maybe I should have tossed In the Oscar, great alc feel, but a bit fast for me. I call it the ALC blade with a KNOCKOUT punch.

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      Last edited by Der_Echte; 12-01-2016 at 07:22 AM.

    23. Top | #55
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      Next time NL and I get together, I will have him try my Oscar. We talked about that a few days ago.


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    24. Top | #56
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      Quote Originally Posted by Der_Echte View Post
      In a few days, Next Level will tell you how Awesum or shytty Nexy Kanaph and Nexy Hanibal are. I will kick him kneecaps if he hates on those great blades, perfectly the Hinoki greatness he requests.

      I have great wins using both.

      Sent from my SM-T350 using Tapatalk
      so, how would a thinner outerply affect the performance of the blade? Would it be like a reverse innerforce scenario?

    25. Top | #57
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      Quote Originally Posted by NextLevel View Post
      Kicking me in the only place where it doesn't make my body worse isn't much of a threat, is it?

      Seriously, was looking for ALC and Hinoki in an OFF-/OFF blade. Carbon is okay but I usually like it with arylate as the vibrations can cause pain over time. If they can beat Innerforce ALC, they will be fine.

      Wonder when Donic will do a Maze/Freitas clone. The only koto blade I have ever used for a good extended period was Vega Euro.
      Actually, I would love a good Donic Michael Maze. Descriptions sees to say that it is a normal, standard albeit "boring" blade, which I think is good, as what most people need is not a unique blade (ie ZJK SZLC) but a dependable one.

      EDIT: I haven't actually usaed the Maze, this is from some OOAK forum...
      Last edited by doraemon; 11-29-2016 at 09:10 PM.

    26. Top | #58
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      Has anyone seen the new "Baum Esprit Inner"?

      http://tt-japan.net/index.php?main_p...oducts_id=3194

    27. Top | #59
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      Quote Originally Posted by NextLevel View Post
      Kicking me in the only place where it doesn't make my body worse isn't much of a threat, is it?

      Seriously, was looking for ALC and Hinoki in an OFF-/OFF blade. Carbon is okay but I usually like it with arylate as the vibrations can cause pain over time. If they can beat Innerforce ALC, they will be fine.

      Wonder when Donic will do a Maze/Freitas clone. The only koto blade I have ever used for a good extended period was Vega Euro.
      Also, Garaydia is Hinoki-ALC-(Ayous or Kiri or Something Else)-ALC-Hinoki, right? Seems like it fits the bill...
      Last edited by doraemon; 12-01-2016 at 05:58 AM.

    28. Top | #60
      Baal is offline
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      Since my True Carbon and may ZJK ALC are essentially identical in playing properties when they have the same rubber, I don't think the thinner outer ply matters much. Not something I would have expected. But the blades are incredibly similar.

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