Changing to short pips - Should I do it and tips.

laistrogian · Dec 5, 2016

Just a week ago, I decided to pull a trigger on RITC 802-40 short pips rubber on my BH. I thought to myself "WTH, let's just try this" and for me somewhat, short pips might makes sense.

My level of play is probably a stable 1600-1650 USATT. My forte is in making good (either under or side) serve and topspin on my FH. Two of my coaches, one a paralympic gold, another an ex-chinese pro player verified this. My weakness IMO is serve receive on deep long serve (no matter that spin they have) and BH consistency on drive and loop. There's a big gap between my FH and BH as my FH is much more consistent and it's been developing to the point where counterlooping is possible during matches.

I've used short pips twice so far and at least so far, my serve became way better due to the spin insensitivity. Ofc, this is probably because I was using Tenergy 05, the most sensitive rubber to spin there is. What became weird is I still don't understand how to overall control the push, block and counter-drive a loop. Perhaps this is because I've only used it twice but I don't know how to control my spin when doing both drop shot and deep long push.

I'd like to hear opinion from people who has switched to short pips, maybe changed from shorts pips to smooth, coaches and just players who are used to playing with pips. As someone at my level, does it make sense to switch to a short pips and do you have any tips on how to play with short pips overall in controlling your push and blocking loops.

Shiro · Dec 6, 2016

I'm not a short pips user, but as a personal smooth rubber user like you, i would not recommend switching. It seems you are planning to switch to short pips to make it easier on yourself as your backhand is not in good condition yet. As for now, i would recommend staying with smooth and practicing more as equipment is not what makes a good player, its the person controlling the equipment. In addition, if you are to switch to short pips on the backhand, please note that it will be difficult to play away from the table if you are forced to by your opponent.

SFF_lib · Dec 6, 2016

laistrogian said:
Just a week ago, I decided to pull a trigger on RITC 802-40 short pips rubber on my BH. I thought to myself "WTH, let's just try this" and for me somewhat, short pips might makes sense.

My level of play is probably a stable 1600-1650 USATT. My forte is in making good (either under or side) serve and topspin on my FH. Two of my coaches, one a paralympic gold, another an ex-chinese pro player verified this. My weakness IMO is serve receive on deep long serve (no matter that spin they have) and BH consistency on drive and loop. There's a big gap between my FH and BH as my FH is much more consistent and it's been developing to the point where counterlooping is possible during matches.

I've used short pips twice so far and at least so far, my serve became way better due to the spin insensitivity. Ofc, this is probably because I was using Tenergy 05, the most sensitive rubber to spin there is. What became weird is I still don't understand how to overall control the push, block and counter-drive a loop. Perhaps this is because I've only used it twice but I don't know how to control my spin when doing both drop shot and deep long push.

I'd like to hear opinion from people who has switched to short pips, maybe changed from shorts pips to smooth, coaches and just players who are used to playing with pips. As someone at my level, does it make sense to switch to a short pips and do you have any tips on how to play with short pips overall in controlling your push and blocking loops.

I played SP on my BH in the past. I'm a looper. I can tell you honestly, SP is dead as soon as you step away from the table. With inverted rubber I can still counter loop on my BH. So i suggest you only switch to SP if your style is close to table.

Any soft (soft top sheet + soft sponge) rubber can improve your serve return dramatically as compared to T05. I would suggest you to try R7 soft, Donic BF J03 or Gewo Thunderball 2 (very underrated but a great cheap rubber).

If you really love tenergy on BH, try T64 FX 1.9.

pgpg · Dec 6, 2016

You could try chopping with SP away from the table

... Sorry, could not resist (I am an aspiring chopper, but perhaps there is a grain of truth in this...).

SFF_lib · Dec 6, 2016

pgpg said:
You could try chopping with SP away from the table ... Sorry, could not resist (but perhaps there is a grain of truth in this...).

You are right. I just played with a SP player (SP on both sides). He plays very fast close to the table. Once away from table, he still hit on FH but chop on BH.

Baal · Dec 6, 2016

I played SP on BH for quite a few years. A good player saw me play and said that I really needed to switch back to inverted. So I did. I would say my level is close to the same either way oddly enough, once I am fully settled in.

As the previous commenter said, you HAVE to stay close in or the SP become a liability. If you are very tall, that affects the way you hit your FH also, so it really requires some major retooling of many things. High level SP shakehand players are very quick and can cover a lot of table with your FH.

You will definitely return serve better with SP (although very long dead ones are surprisingly tough to deal with). You will generate a lot of unforced errors. You can even generate surprisingly spinny opening loops (spinnier than the opponent expects).

But if you have any natural tendency to drop back even to middle position in points, this is going to be a problem for you.

Also, you will need to commit to quite a few months with SP before deciding if the experiment works for you.

ttpshot · Dec 6, 2016

Like everyone said, your technic on BH needs to be better than FH to be able to use it effectively during the match.

One of other suggestion would be to use LP on your BH if you find recieving particularly difficult.
There's no shame in using LP and at your level, it'll work like a charm.

Ilia Minkin · Dec 6, 2016

SFF_lib said:
I played SP on my BH in the past. I'm a looper. I can tell you honestly, SP is dead as soon as you step away from the table. With inverted rubber I can still counter loop on my BH. So i suggest you only switch to SP if your style is close to table.

Any soft (soft top sheet + soft sponge) rubber can improve your serve return dramatically as compared to T05. I would suggest you to try R7 soft, Donic BF J03 or Gewo Thunderball 2 (very underrated but a great cheap rubber).

If you really love tenergy on BH, try T64 FX 1.9.

Big +1. I'd also add Xiom Vega Euro and Tibhar Evo FX-P/FX-S/EL-P. If you look at this thread, https://www.tabletennisdaily.co.uk/...rs-equipment-from-European-Championships-2016, you may notice that even a plenty of pros use a softer rubber on their BH. Softer rubbers indeed make life easier for learning.

Shuki · Dec 6, 2016

You're not a pro, you're not going to become a pro, play the way you enjoy playing. If you play a style you enjoy, then you'll be happy playing all around.

allencorn · Dec 6, 2016

I started using 802-40 a couple of months ago. You asked about pushing - do it as little as possible. Short pips are designed for hitting, and that is what you should try to do. 802-40 is a spinny short pip, but don't be fooled into trying to spin like you would with T05, either pushing or topspinning. You can spin, but it doesn't really do much good, as it will be an easy ball for opponents to hit. Work on placement and timing. Blocking should be pretty sweet, with lots of options (chop blocks, fast blocks), but it will take some practice. Emphasize short strokes. I find 802-40 tough to chop with, so staying close to the table is a good idea, though you can hit away from the table if you are really careful with placement. Not a good go-to strategy, though.

Watch any video of Johnny Huang. He was probably the best ever shakehands short pips player. A joy to watch.

I agree with the post to commit to it for at least a few months, maybe more to get a really good feel for it. You may need to change your game, but who knows, maybe for the better.

Lula · Dec 6, 2016

Do not switch to short pimple if you want more consistency and if you want to be better on returning long serves. A regular rubber is safer because you can drop the ball and generate spin = alot safer. Less spin and always hit on the highest point with short pimple = more errors. Short pimple is better at returning short serves, but is bad at returning long serves becuase you often need to lift the ball with less spin than an regular rubber. Change to short pimple if you naturally play thick on backhand with an open racket.

v100ev · Dec 6, 2016

As a long pips player I can tell you this: lowering the spin sensitivity of your paddle by using short pips instead of a regular smooth rubber is not the answer!
Why: because in future you'll understand that until you start to read and understand the spin of your opponents serve nothing will help you in the end. Ok, for now you receive better with short pips but you judge the ball the same which means that you haven't progressed at all.
For example: If the serve is no spin and you think that it's backspin and push it with the Tenergy it'll pop up and your opponent will kill the ball and take the point. Now you have the short pips, the serve is the same, you push it thinking it's backspin(the same situation) with the short pips and the ball pops up but much lower then when it popped up with the Tenergy and.. At some level it will result in your opponent killing your receive again. The difference will be only until you get to play against better players. So what I'm trying to say is that trying to change to short pips because you're lacking something in understanding the game won't fix the problem. This can only delay the moment when you face this truth again(that you need to develop your serve receive).
I hope what I wrote is understandable.

Still if you have fun and the thing I wrote doesn't bother you - just give it a try

ajtatosmano2 · Dec 6, 2016

I think you can use short pips for easier receive, but you should avoid the backhand especially in training. So in matches you'll have a better receive rate, but you still can improve. Look at Tan Ruiwu, his game is based on FH and hit with BH when he can't reach it with FH. Of course he has amazing footwork. Another notable player is Tang Peng, who use his short pips much more.

NextLevel · Dec 6, 2016

laistrogian said:
Just a week ago, I decided to pull a trigger on RITC 802-40 short pips rubber on my BH. I thought to myself "WTH, let's just try this" and for me somewhat, short pips might makes sense.

My level of play is probably a stable 1600-1650 USATT. My forte is in making good (either under or side) serve and topspin on my FH. Two of my coaches, one a paralympic gold, another an ex-chinese pro player verified this. My weakness IMO is serve receive on deep long serve (no matter that spin they have) and BH consistency on drive and loop. There's a big gap between my FH and BH as my FH is much more consistent and it's been developing to the point where counterlooping is possible during matches.

I've used short pips twice so far and at least so far, my serve became way better due to the spin insensitivity. Ofc, this is probably because I was using Tenergy 05, the most sensitive rubber to spin there is. What became weird is I still don't understand how to overall control the push, block and counter-drive a loop. Perhaps this is because I've only used it twice but I don't know how to control my spin when doing both drop shot and deep long push.

I'd like to hear opinion from people who has switched to short pips, maybe changed from shorts pips to smooth, coaches and just players who are used to playing with pips. As someone at my level, does it make sense to switch to a short pips and do you have any tips on how to play with short pips overall in controlling your push and blocking loops.

It's a large commitment. Giving up backhand looping limits your options unless you want to play a specific style of using control and placement to generate attacking opportunities. I would say before you do this, get the TTEdge app and practice reading serves. After doing that, have your coaches serve to you repeatedly and read and return the spin.

Baal · Dec 6, 2016

SP will not make you more consistent on your BH. That is a myth. They will probably help cover some deficiencies on return of serve. Well, some serves, and a lot of the ones you would see at that level. As for the rest, the ball flies straighter than with inverted, and so on some shots your margin for error is diminished with SP. You will force different kinds of error from your opponent with SP. I played with them for 3 or 4 years and never really developed proper SP technique, but did develop a few very effective strategies. They become a giant albatross if you are forced back from the table. You can say nothing after one week or so.

sanavasaraja · Dec 6, 2016

I would never wanna do it personally. In a way you're running away from your problems instead of facing them. You wont become a better player like that.

I for one love that my rubbers are very spin sensitive: this way I will learn how to handle incoming spin. There is a tomahawk serve player where I train. He is not a very dangerous player, but his control and safety on shots is amazing. He beats me comfortably just on the basis of his lack of mistakes and more importantly because of his serves, which are somewhat deceptive and have a disgusting amount of spin. He can absolutely fool me with those.

My backhand rubber is also (still) a bit hard for me (I guess it's 45-45,8 degrees) -- that's because my backhand strokes are lacking in quality. Choosing a soft rubber like Rakza 7 soft (and the control! holy lord, the control with this thing!) would instantly catapult my game.

But I strive for self improvement, so I welcome these challenges, and eventually I will overcome them, and when I do, I will be a greater player!

BUT
If doing X -- playing with short pips -- is the most fun for you, in that case, always go for what is the most fun to you

Anywhichway, I wish you all the best for your journey!

rokphish · Dec 7, 2016

Shuki said:
You're not a pro, you're not going to become a pro, play the way you enjoy playing. If you play a style you enjoy, then you'll be happy playing all around.

This.
When I told my coach I want to switch, he discouraged me. But in the end, I play for me and my enjoyment.
After some (quite long) time of learning and figuring it out myself (no coach), I now play better than I was with both inverted. Win-win for me.

pingpongmaster20162106 · Dec 8, 2016

Using Short pimples on the backhand is amazing if you have the technique liked being able to knuckle the ball with speed and you mostly play very close to the table. If you loop on the forehand and counter loop away from the table then short pimples is not really suitable as short pimples is not meant the spin the ball but rather hit it to get the knucle ball effect.

Changing to short pips - Should I do it and tips.

Active Member

Member

Well-Known Member

Active Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Member

Well-Known Member

Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Member

Active Member

Member

Similar threads