Back to Forum
Page 3 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast
Results 41 to 60 of 61
  1. Jirrex is offline
    This user has no status.
     
    Advanced TTD Member 291 257
    J
    Jirrex is offline
    This user has no status.
     
    Advanced TTD Member 257 291
    #41
    Quote Originally Posted by Suga D
    @ Jirrex
    Doesn't this look interesting?
    It definitely does

    The Following User Likes Jirrex's Post:

    Suga D

    Spinny, Spinnier, Spinniest

  2. Suga D is offline
    This user has no status.
     
    Master TTD Member 3,909 3,231
    Suga D's Avatar
    Suga D is offline
    This user has no status.
     
    Master TTD Member 3,231 3,909

    User Info Menu

    #42
    The website www.tt-japan.net has shared a video about their rubber warmer. Quite interesting.


    Here´s a link to their shop. Probably gonna order in the next days...
    http://tt-japan.net/index.php?main_p...oducts_id=3207
    Instrument of choice:
    Blade: Afrobro´s custom made handcrafted 5ply Hinoki
    FH: BLACK RUBBER

    BH: RED RUBBER

    Nyabinghi


    Backspin for Backspin even while I'm rappin' (Lord Doitall - Lords of the Underground)

  3. Shifu is offline
    says CHO!
     
    Senior TTD Member 602 761
    Shifu's Avatar
    Shifu is offline
    says CHO!
     
    Senior TTD Member 761 602

    User Info Menu


    Jan 2017
    Europe
    761
    602
    2217
    Read 2 Reviews
    #43
    too bad this is forbidden according to ITTF rules

    "Rule 2.4.7: The covering material should be used as it has been authorised by the ITTF without any physical, chemical or other treatment, changing or modifying playing properties, friction, outlook, colour, structure, surface, etc."

    i really think it makes a difference
    Last edited by Shifu; 01-31-2017 at 05:09 PM.

  4. Suga D is offline
    This user has no status.
     
    Master TTD Member 3,909 3,231
    Suga D's Avatar
    Suga D is offline
    This user has no status.
     
    Master TTD Member 3,231 3,909

    User Info Menu

    #44
    Quote Originally Posted by Fabian
    too bad this is forbidden according to ITTF rules

    "Rule 2.4.7: The covering material should be used as it has been authorised by the ITTF without any physical, chemical or other treatment, changing or modifying playing properties, friction, outlook, colour, structure, surface, etc."

    i really think it makes a difference
    I know, but this is just another meaningless rule that's IMPOSSIBLE to enforce properly PLUS people in warm countries would have an advantage towards those coming from colder areas of our beautiful planet, 'cause their rubbers last longer.
    Some players even put their racket or the whole racket case close to the heating to warm up their rubbers or even leave their racket in the sun for a moment. How do you wanna control that?

    So this rule is IMHO just bollocks and needs to be eradicated ASAP!
    Last edited by Suga D; 01-31-2017 at 07:03 PM.

  5. ttpshot is offline
    This user has no status.
     
    Advanced TTD Member 558 386
    T
    ttpshot is offline
    This user has no status.
     
    Advanced TTD Member 386 558
    #45
    Name:  IMG_5790.jpg
Views: 215
Size:  88.8 KB
    Tried it the other day and it does make huge difference. Almost felt like the rubber was boosted. Probably more so because it was 3 degrees outside and my rubber was as hard as a brick. Difference is not as noticeable when it was used for the rubber which was left in warm room temperature.

    One of the advantage it has is that you'll be using a rubber with consistent bounce every time.

    It's pretty expensive as I said earlier. Almost $100 per sheet. I only play couple times a month so I'm still not sure if I'll buy one in the end.

    The Following User Likes ttpshot's Post:

    Suga D


  6. ttpshot is offline
    This user has no status.
     
    Advanced TTD Member 558 386
    T
    ttpshot is offline
    This user has no status.
     
    Advanced TTD Member 386 558
    #46
    Quote Originally Posted by Fabian
    too bad this is forbidden according to ITTF rules

    "Rule 2.4.7: The covering material should be used as it has been authorised by the ITTF without any physical, chemical or other treatment, changing or modifying playing properties, friction, outlook, colour, structure, surface, etc."

    i really think it makes a difference
    Donic Sales person said that they already consulted top umpires in Japan and said it won't be considered as modification of the covering material. Warming it up to 40 degrees is not outside of the norm they said.

    The Following User Likes ttpshot's Post:

    Suga D


  7. Baal is offline
    says Ba'al has spoken
     
    Master TTD Member 5,938 3,554
    B
    Baal is offline
    says Ba'al has spoken
     
    Master TTD Member 3,554 5,938

    User Info Menu


    Nov 2010
    3,554
    5,938
    15832
    Read 8 Reviews
    #47
    Quote Originally Posted by Fabian
    too bad this is forbidden according to ITTF rules

    "Rule 2.4.7: The covering material should be used as it has been authorised by the ITTF without any physical, chemical or other treatment, changing or modifying playing properties, friction, outlook, colour, structure, surface, etc."

    i really think it makes a difference
    This rule makes it illegal to clean your rubber by any method, even a damp cloth. With any of those procedures, you are using water (or a cleaner) to solubilize materials that have landed on your rubber surface (a chemical procedure) and you are using the mechanical force (a physical treatment) of a cloth or sponge to facilitate removal of things that are on the surface of the rubber. And a clean rubber makes a difference. Some cleaners probably have other effects on the topsheet.

    Obviously that is not something anyone really intends. After all you are just restoring your rubber and sponge to it's initial condition, aren't you? Ok, let's see where that leads us.

    Restoring the initial condition is actually what people would be doing if they added booster to an old sheet of, say, MX-P; or by rapidly bringing a rubber up to a reasonable temperature (perhaps that of the factory) on a cold day in, say, Sweden. This is because as a rubber ages, it moves farther and farther away from the condition the samples authorized by ITTF were in. Would not a player actually have an obligation to boost some older rubbers so as to maintain them in the same condition (physical or chemical state) that was authorized by ITTF?

    Also, we hear a lot about different pro players getting their own slightly different sponge hardness custom made for them. Isn't that illegal, since the ITTF does not separately review every subtle difference? On the ITTF LARC you can find the approval for Hurricane Whatever, which maybe ITTF checked out with a 47 degree sponge. But maybe Ma Long gets his Hurricane Whatever made for him with a 48 degree sponge (because he is Ma Long and DHS makes rubbers specifically for the CNT). Clearly illegal.

    So we see where the ITTF has brought us with their absurd rules. I am just showing where an extremely literal interpretation of those rules would get you.

    The Following 3 Users Like Baal's Post:

    doraemon, lodro and 1 other

    Last edited by Baal; 01-31-2017 at 10:26 PM.

  8. Baal is offline
    says Ba'al has spoken
     
    Master TTD Member 5,938 3,554
    B
    Baal is offline
    says Ba'al has spoken
     
    Master TTD Member 3,554 5,938

    User Info Menu


    Nov 2010
    3,554
    5,938
    15832
    Read 8 Reviews
    #48
    Quote Originally Posted by ttpshot
    Donic Sales person said that they already consulted top umpires in Japan and said it won't be considered as modification of the covering material. Warming it up to 40 degrees is not outside of the norm they said.
    I think this is the only sane decision but of course one so inclined could argue that this is only true if the playing hall is 40 degrees (some days it feels like that here in Houston), or maybe the place where ITTF authorizes racket coverings is 40 degrees.

    The Following User Likes Baal's Post:

    Suga D


  9. Suga D is offline
    This user has no status.
     
    Master TTD Member 3,909 3,231
    Suga D's Avatar
    Suga D is offline
    This user has no status.
     
    Master TTD Member 3,231 3,909

    User Info Menu

    #49
    Quote Originally Posted by Baal
    This rule makes it illegal to clean your rubber by any method, even a damp cloth. With any of those procedures, you are using water (or a cleaner) to solubilize materials that have landed on your rubber surface (a chemical procedure) and you are using the mechanical force (a physical treatment) of a cloth or sponge to facilitate removal of things that are on the surface of the rubber. And a clean rubber makes a difference. Some cleaners probably have other effects on the topsheet.

    Obviously that is not something anyone really intends. After all you are just restoring your rubber and sponge to it's initial condition, aren't you? Ok, let's see where that leads us.

    Restoring the initial condition is actually what people would be doing if they added booster to an old sheet of, say, MX-P; or by rapidly bringing a rubber up to a reasonable temperature (perhaps that of the factory) on a cold day in, say, Sweden. This is because as a rubber ages, it moves farther and farther away from the condition the samples authorized by ITTF were in. Would not a player actually have an obligation to boost some older rubbers so as to maintain them in the same condition (physical or chemical state) that was authorized by ITTF?

    Also, we hear a lot about different pro players getting their own slightly different sponge hardness custom made for them. Isn't that illegal, since the ITTF does not separately review every subtle difference? On the ITTF LARC you can find the approval for Hurricane Whatever, which maybe ITTF checked out with a 47 degree sponge. But maybe Ma Long gets his Hurricane Whatever made for him with a 48 degree sponge (because he is Ma Long and DHS makes rubbers specifically for the CNT). Clearly illegal.

    So we see where the ITTF has brought us with their absurd rules. I am just showing where an extremely literal interpretation of those rules would get you.
    Excellent! Very well spoken!

    That's a very interesting point you raise and I totally agree.
    Actually it would be interesting to see a player getting in trouble for that by some stubborn umpire and it all ends up in front of a law court.
    I tend to believe with this argumentation that a good lawyer will be able to fight this through and win in the end.

    Couldn't have said it any better! [EDIT: 'cause i had to use the edited version]
    Last edited by Suga D; 01-31-2017 at 10:32 PM.

  10. Shifu is offline
    says CHO!
     
    Senior TTD Member 602 761
    Shifu's Avatar
    Shifu is offline
    says CHO!
     
    Senior TTD Member 761 602

    User Info Menu


    Jan 2017
    Europe
    761
    602
    2217
    Read 2 Reviews
    #50
    regarding your sponge argument: only the topsheep has to be approved by ITTF, not the sponge itself.

  11. Baal is offline
    says Ba'al has spoken
     
    Master TTD Member 5,938 3,554
    B
    Baal is offline
    says Ba'al has spoken
     
    Master TTD Member 3,554 5,938

    User Info Menu


    Nov 2010
    3,554
    5,938
    15832
    Read 8 Reviews
    #51
    Fabian, I used to think that (and I believe it was true for many years but has changed recently). I was surprised when somebody here corrected me on that point not too long ago. They were right and I was wrong.

    It turns out that the ITTF Technical Bulletin T4 from 2015 states this:

    B. Quantitative Criteria
    1.The racket covering

    It should be noted in particular that:
    Authorisation is given to the top sheet plus the top sheet / sponge combination. [emphasis added] Red and black top
    sheets with the same ITTF number or supplier and brand name must have the same geometry, properties, and branding area(wording and numbering). The surface colours must be uniform. Red and black top sheets of the same brand do not require separate authorisation fees.


    Around this time they also specified that packaging has to note the country of origin, starting this year.

    Later the bulletin specifies a procedure for testing.


    The supplier should submit the following to the address given under “Contact Person” on the ITTF

    web site:

    One top sheet sample of each colour without sponge.
    One red racket covering with the thickest available sponge, in plastic retail packaging.
    One black racket covering with the thickest available sponge in any colour, in plastic retail
    packaging.

    So if a player is using a rubber with a sponge that is not the same as the one submitted for testing ((i.e it is a different hardness) it is not the same as the one on LARC and is technically illegal. Of course, if it had been submitted, ITTF would approve it because they don't have specifications on sponge hardness or composition. They are presumably only concerned about max thickness being under the limit they specify. But nevertheless the fact remains that the rubber with a custom sponge would not be the one that was submitted for approval. Clearly they don't care, because they care about some things and not about others.

    Still I give this as another example of where the inability of ITTF to write any sort of regulation without miles and miles of gray areas and ambiguities, not to mention things that can't be enforced. It really has hurt the sport.

    The other thing I wonder, there may be some people who still buy topsheets and sponges separately. According to this bulletin, such a rubber would no longer be legal. This whole thing flew kind of underneath the radar, not many people have talked about it.

    The Following 2 Users Like Baal's Post:

    igorponger and Suga D

    Last edited by Baal; 02-01-2017 at 12:29 AM.

  12. ttpshot is offline
    This user has no status.
     
    Advanced TTD Member 558 386
    T
    ttpshot is offline
    This user has no status.
     
    Advanced TTD Member 386 558
    #52
    I did read somewhere that the racket covering modification rule was introduced back in the days of anti long pimples. When it was banned people were trying to create anti long pimples by modifing the coverings. So if my memory's correct, the rule was to stop extreme modification of the surface (eg. baking sliver in the sun for a week to make it anti rubber).

    Having said that, ITTF could turn around and say warming up the rubber intentionaly is illegal based on what is literaly written on the rule. But I don't think that's the intention.

    As for the rubber/sponge testing, I guess that's for ITTF's convenience than anything else as testing for everly thickness of the sponge would make the process significantly longer. Besides, sponge manufacturing process is a lot like baking a cookie and it's very hard to make them in exact thickness/hardness(hence the thickness control in rubber manufacturing is done by baking sponge first, then choose the thickness of the top sheet so that the max thickness doesn't exceed 4.0mm) so there'll be a lot of rubber that cannot pass the ITTF test during the tournament.

    I do hope ITTF tests for every type of sponges though as factory boosting is done there.

  13. Baal is offline
    says Ba'al has spoken
     
    Master TTD Member 5,938 3,554
    B
    Baal is offline
    says Ba'al has spoken
     
    Master TTD Member 3,554 5,938

    User Info Menu


    Nov 2010
    3,554
    5,938
    15832
    Read 8 Reviews
    #53
    I dont think banning rubber heaters is their intention. Either is banning people from cleaning their rubber with wzter and a sponge. They do want fo ban boosting. But they have writen the rule in a way that does not descriminate and taken literally bans all three. So some umpire in Japan says heating to 40 degrees is ok. I suppose that is reasonable but in fact there is nothing ITTF has ever written to suggest this (for example in the Guide for Match Officials). And it's all unenforceable. Maybe JTTA has their own rule.

    So heat if you want to.

  14. igorponger is offline
    This user has no status.
     
    Senior TTD Member 177 619
    igorponger's Avatar
    igorponger is offline
    This user has no status.
     
    Senior TTD Member 619 177

    User Info Menu


    Jan 2012
    Former Soviet Union
    619
    177
    910
    Read 0 Reviews
    #54
    BOOBY TRAP
    Just mind of the "dew point" phenomena. You heat the rubber at ambient air humidity over 70%. As the rubber cools down you will get your rubber surface wet and slippery/

    https://www.omnicalculator.com/physics/dew-point
    Last edited by igorponger; 12-18-2019 at 11:21 AM.

  15. slevin is offline
    This user has no status.
     
    Established TTD Member 41 114
    S
    slevin is offline
    This user has no status.
     
    Established TTD Member 114 41

    User Info Menu


    Sep 2012
    United States
    114
    41
    286
    Read 1 Reviews
    #55
    Quote Originally Posted by ttpshot
    Name:  IMG_5790.jpg
Views: 215
Size:  88.8 KB
    Tried it the other day and it does make huge difference. Almost felt like the rubber was boosted. Probably more so because it was 3 degrees outside and my rubber was as hard as a brick. Difference is not as noticeable when it was used for the rubber which was left in warm room temperature.

    One of the advantage it has is that you'll be using a rubber with consistent bounce every time.

    It's pretty expensive as I said earlier. Almost $100 per sheet. I only play couple times a month so I'm still not sure if I'll buy one in the end.
    I have a $25 solution (bought from Amazon a year ago) & works great in colder weather (just like boosting & the effect is pretty large): a USB heated shawl / blanket. It has 2 USB wires that you attach to a mobile charger. Wrap the racket (not handle) with the shawl, that’s it.

  16. aerial is offline
    This user has no status.
     
    Established TTD Member 36 118
    aerial's Avatar
    aerial is offline
    This user has no status.
     
    Established TTD Member 118 36
    #56
    anyone use this product still or a similar product?

  17. Carl05 is offline
    This user has no status.
     
    TTD Member 50 79
    Carl05's Avatar
    Carl05 is offline
    This user has no status.
     
    TTD Member 79 50
    #57

    On my way to the training hall i use to put my bat under the jacket, just between the body and my arm, It works and it's free of charge.

    The Following User Likes Carl05's Post:

    lodro


  18. lodro is offline
    says TT-CLOWN, old git
     
    Senior TTD Member 250 710
    L
    lodro is offline
    says TT-CLOWN, old git
     
    Senior TTD Member 710 250
    #58
    go to the supermarket and buy a couple of packets of yellow split peas.
    Heat the split peas in the micro wave . Check the temperature with a thermometer the first time so you will know
    how long to heat to reach about 40C.
    Fit the heated packs into your blade/ racket bag or wrap everything in a nice old shawl.

    cost : about 3 bucks

    Yes, you can also cook the peas, add a smoked bacon hock and get yourself a tasty soup........😁

    Re. legality or illegality of things : Somebody tell ITTF to shut their faces and lodge a worldwide campaign to promote
    LEGAL SERVING all the way down to provincial small club level. 😂

  19. hleett is offline
    This user has no status.
     
    TTD Member 7 31
    hleett's Avatar
    hleett is offline
    This user has no status.
     
    TTD Member 31 7

    User Info Menu

    #59
    Quote Originally Posted by lodro
    go to the supermarket and buy a couple of packets of yellow split peas.
    Heat the split peas in the micro wave . Check the temperature with a thermometer the first time so you will know
    how long to heat to reach about 40C.
    Fit the heated packs into your blade/ racket bag or wrap everything in a nice old shawl.

    cost : about 3 bucks

    Yes, you can also cook the peas, add a smoked bacon hock and get yourself a tasty soup........😁

    Re. legality or illegality of things : Somebody tell ITTF to shut their faces and lodge a worldwide campaign to promote
    LEGAL SERVING all the way down to provincial small club level. 😂
    You can use the good old heat pad to achieve the same purpose.

  20. lodro is offline
    says TT-CLOWN, old git
     
    Senior TTD Member 250 710
    L
    lodro is offline
    says TT-CLOWN, old git
     
    Senior TTD Member 710 250
    #60
    Quote Originally Posted by hleett
    You can use the good old heat pad to achieve the same purpose.

    Absolutely agree with you.
    However your comment shows that you are not fond of pea and bacon soup 😁


Page 3 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Create a new Topic:
Title is required.