Can European players compete with the Chinese?

says You cheeky bugger calling me Mehul, the boy that...
says You cheeky bugger calling me Mehul, the boy that...
Member
Oct 2010
36
100
165
It's been 17 years since China was defeated by a European country and 14 years since a European took a world title.

stephaneuaiche2017.jpg

Stephane Ouaiche Photo via: 2017JO./ DDM, N.Dumoulin

I've looked at Europe's best young talents this includes:

1. Simon Gauzy (France)
2. Tristan Flore (France)
3. Stephane Quaiche (France)
4. Liam Pitchford (England)
5. Jakob Dyas (Poland)
6. Dima Oscherov (Germany)
8. Benedik Duda (Germany)
9. Marcos Freitas (Portugal)
10. Anton Kallberg (Sweden)

I may be missing one or two but these are the main candidates in my opinion.

Simon Gauzy, (early twenty's) with a lot of talent and a fantastic flick and a good rally player. For me he lacks true bottle under real pressure and retreats a little too early.
Slim chance vs Chinese players

Tristan Flore, (early twenty's) and at one time looked as if he was going to conquer the world but injuries halted his progression. Last season he started to hit form using his great serves and variation of shots to cause big upsets. Lacks power and consistency in my opinion.
Occasional upset vs Chinese players possible

Liam Pitchford, (early twenty's) with one of the best backhands in the world especially down the line. Forehand can be suspect at times and struggles to cross the line against players who are higher ranked on the big occasion. Physically weak and in big halls it shows compared to domestic league halls.
Slim Chance vs the Chinese on a big stage

Jakob Dyas, (early twenty's) huge progression over the past couple of years with a backhand to die for. Slightly erratic and a more solid middle game needed to really challenge the best on a regular basis.

One off win here and there possible vs Chinese due to his explosiveness but would he be given the opportunity to do so? Most likely no!
Dima, (late twenty's) has been Europe's top player for the past 5 years and has beaten Zhang Jike. He can give anyone a game but his highest level is still a step or two below the best Chinese. The new ball seems to have given him some issues and now a dad! are the days of him winning a major gone?
Still can beat the Chinese, but lacks true inner belief that it's possible to beat the best Chinese. If it came to 9-9 in the last I would always bet on the Chinese to win against him.

Benedik Duda, (early twenty's) and has quickly risen up the world ranking. Solid European player but lacks power and is not strong enough in terms of middle game.
Slim chance vs Chinese

Marcos Freitas (late twenty's) and a few years back kept climbing the world rankings up to no.7. Unfortunately his rankings have dropped with a poor season last year. Amazing rally player and will fight to the death. For me lacks true weapons, ones that scare you and because of this can not penetrate the Chinese armour.
Slim chance vs Chinese and slowly losing form.

Anton Kallberg, (early twenty's) Great serves and one and one that the Chinese struggle with, strong forehand and backhand flick. Struggles when being attacked and his back hand needs to be strengthened technically and consistently.

Can beat the some Chinese, if above is improved the issue he may have.. the Chinese will study his serve and if they work it out it nullifies his main weapon

Last but not Least,

I left Stephane is my last option, as I believe he could be the secret weapon that not many would know or think of, especially if I mentioned him 3 years ago.

Stephane, has what I call a magical hand (magic touch) that can do anything; chop, Loop, fish, attack, Lob, rally and hit hard.
Two people from Europe caused the Chinese great trouble with variety of shot selection. Waldner and Michael Maze, I would also put Wenger Schlager in that category.

Stephane possess this ability he is a late bloomer and has been sending shock waves over the last year. His repertoire of shots enables him to win rallies from a seemingly impossible position and produce shots that no other can imagine.

I have my theory which I won't reveal as I'm good friends with his coach but I do believe if executed correctly over the next couple years, Stephane could be the one to shock the world...
 
Last edited:
This user has no status.
Ouaiche beating the Chinese ? you must have smoked too much ... Ouaiche is talented but he tends too quickly to go back from the table and i think he lacks power. As soon as he goes a bit back, any serious player destroys him. He's a nice chap and he's very motivated but I think it will be difficult for him even to get into ITTF top 20 or 30 players. I don't see him winning a Chinese anytime soon... and he's more likely to lose badly 4-0 -4 -3 -2 -4 with his style of play than anything else.
 
  • Like
Reactions: NextLevel
This user has no status.
Another vote for Ouaiche. :)

He is certainly the most entertaining style in table tennis currently.

Note.

I love French Table Tennis. So many unusual styled player, Eloi, Debruyeres, Ouaiche, etc. [emoji6]

Sent from my i5E using Tapatalk
 
says You cheeky bugger calling me Mehul, the boy that...
says You cheeky bugger calling me Mehul, the boy that...
Member
Oct 2010
36
100
165
I think its high time instead of using the term European , you should really use "Rest of the world" and include Latin American players in that list as well , or atleast one , Hugo Calderano

i wanted to include Hugo, but i chose to write about Europe only, one because I'm from Europe and secondly i could be wrong but world titles have come only from Asia and Europe hence the post.
 
says You cheeky bugger calling me Mehul, the boy that...
says You cheeky bugger calling me Mehul, the boy that...
Member
Oct 2010
36
100
165
Ouaiche beating the Chinese ? you must have smoked too much ... Ouaiche is talented but he tends too quickly to go back from the table and i think he lacks power. As soon as he goes a bit back, any serious player destroys him. He's a nice chap and he's very motivated but I think it will be difficult for him even to get into ITTF top 20 or 30 players. I don't see him winning a Chinese anytime soon... and he's more likely to lose badly 4-0 -4 -3 -2 -4 with his style of play than anything else.

i dont smoke lol,
i see and agree with what you say but I believe if he makes a few tweaks to his game, over the next few years he can cause trouble, lets not forget Maze played back and gave them a lot of trouble.
 
  • Like
Reactions: BeGo and Suga D
says You cheeky bugger calling me Mehul, the boy that...
says You cheeky bugger calling me Mehul, the boy that...
Member
Oct 2010
36
100
165
I thought Fegerl might take a late step up, but no.

yes he looked interesting but his game is limited and once you know what to do against him, there's not much he can do to change his style to win. im refering to Fergel
 
Last edited:
This user has no status.
This user has no status.
Well-Known Member
Dec 2010
3,779
4,573
16,166
I don't get your reasoning , what does your being from Europe have anything to do with this, and historically world titles have come from every where ... table tennis is a world wide sport and there is no reason somebody outside China / Europe won't be able to defeat the Chinese .. I find it very parochial that you would discount that there is any table tennis talent outside of Europe or China .. anyways , I don't want to cause trouble or hijack this thread for argument ... please carry on ...

i wanted to include Hugo, but i chose to write about Europe only, one because I'm from Europe and secondly i could be wrong but world titles have come only from Asia and Europe hence the post.
 
  • Like
Reactions: NextLevel
This user has no status.
This user has no status.
Well-Known Member
May 2015
3,238
3,924
27,424
Read 5 reviews
I don't get your reasoning , what does your being from Europe have anything to do with this, and historically world titles have come from every where ... table tennis is a world wide sport and there is no reason somebody outside China / Europe won't be able to defeat the Chinese .. I find it very parochial that you would discount that there is any table tennis talent outside of Europe or China .. anyways , I don't want to cause trouble or hijack this thread for argument ... please carry on ...

Hey ttmonster, I think you've got this down the wrong throat. If i understood correctly, Eli's just saying he's looking at it from a european perspective and wasn't trying to be belittleling anyone from outside.
 
This user has no status.
This user has no status.
Well-Known Member
Feb 2012
2,010
1,441
4,714
Read 1 reviews
Jorgen persson said in his TTD podcast the 1st and most important step is to believe you can win the chinese. everything else comes secondary, off course im not talking about average top100 players but the ones with potential

I will be amazed if ouaiche (indeed a very creative player) beats a top chinese in his normal day even in a pro tour. he is way too passive

With the bigger ball and now plastic ball (and huge improvement in technique explosiveness & recovery) , ball feeling seems to have less and less importance in "walnder like" shots. Whatever talent tricks you have on your armory simply does not work like in the past. These tricks dont work anymore when you have all the fan zhendongs and liang jingkuns killing everything due to their excellent physical condition and technique.

Jedi mind tricks table tennis is great dont get me wrong, but just look what zhang jike and ma long have done to ma lin even on their average day. chop blocks getting killed, ph blocks getting killed, fade pushes/flicks and tricky serves also getting killed or at least neutralized and then killed in the next ball lol :D

the game is way more physical now, players like the karlssons,moregard,karlberg,calderano (if he manages to stay closer to the table), mizutani who is now fearless and way more aggressive, yuya oshima,flore have some chances I believe. Dyjas and gauzy are also fantastic but they seem to have some incosistencies and sometimes disbelief in their own abilities

The bad news is the chinese are playing scientific table tennis, you dont just have the opponent to deal with but a whole team behind them (larger army in statistics and video match analysis, variety of training partners and coaches + ex world champs as head coaches and managers)
 
says You cheeky bugger calling me Mehul, the boy that...
says You cheeky bugger calling me Mehul, the boy that...
Member
Oct 2010
36
100
165
it sounds like you have misunderstood me,
i would never discount anyone and of course the rest of the world count. im based in europe and my main expertise is and has been in europe. i made this thread with my true knowledge which is european table tennis in comparison to China. please dont get offended as this post is my personal views of european players versus chinese, thats all.

all the best
 
says You cheeky bugger calling me Mehul, the boy that...
says You cheeky bugger calling me Mehul, the boy that...
Member
Oct 2010
36
100
165
wonderful points you make, I can argue a few but ill leave that for another day. thank you for your insight and i 100% agree with the belief factor required initially.

Im entitled to my thoughts and opinions as you are and for me Stephane has the X factor, yes he needs tweaks in his game but he possess the ability to develop what is required alongside his gift of manipulating the ball
 
This user has no status.
i dont smoke lol,
i see and agree with what you say but I believe if he makes a few tweaks to his game, over the next few years he can cause trouble, lets not forget Maze played back and gave them a lot of trouble.

IMO I wouldn't put Maze in the same category as waldner. He never really won any major titles... If you're going to cite European greats why not persson or gatien?
 
This user has no status.
This user has no status.
Member
Dec 2014
473
950
2,870
Read 3 reviews
IMO I wouldn't put Maze in the same category as waldner. He never really won any major titles... If you're going to cite European greats why not persson or gatien?

I think he's talking about players of this generation (although maze is out now) against the the Chinese players of this generation. I don't see where you're getting it from that he's putting maze in the same category as waldner? But the point of talking about those that do trouble the Chinese would be to perhaps learn from those players and of course improve weaknesses of other European players who are currently active in order to have a better chance against the Chinese.

Edit: I see now where he said it, so apologies for that, think you're right but still important to particularly learn from the players of this generation that have troubled the Chinese which is what Eli's point seems to be. :)

That post by TTfrenzy was spot on.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Eli Baraty
says Spin and more spin.
says Spin and more spin.
Well-Known Member
Super Moderator
Dec 2010
16,169
17,739
54,887
Read 11 reviews
I am all for thinking outside the box to get the rest of the world more competitive with the top CNT players. So thanks Eli for getting people to look at these things a little differently.

One of the things I have never entirely understood about table tennis as a sport is why nationality plays so big a part in how events are played.

For instance, in tennis, at Wimbledon, I don't think they list the player's name with their country flag. And in a match with. Nadal, they don't talk incessantly about Spain. Or about Serbia when Djokavic is playing.

I wonder why table tennis is like that.


Sent from The Subterranean Workshop by Telepathy
 
Top