Viscaria or butterfly zhang Jike?

Paula said:

Which is the best for top spins and loops? Viscaria or butterfly zhang Jike?

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They are the same blade with a different handle.

But the Stratus Power Wood is better for looping.


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Paula said:

Which is the best for top spins and loops? Viscaria or butterfly zhang Jike?

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Hi Paula, I received your PM, I thought I would reply here

I agree with Carl, both very similar blades. Both the Zhang Jike and Viscaria have the same compositions of Koto, Carbon, Limba, Kiri, Limba, Carbon, Koto.

What level of play are you? How long have you been playing for?

By the way, the Viscaria and the ZJK ALC are both great blades. But the reason I listed the Stratus Power Wood is that the Viscaria and the ZJK ALC need higher level technique to really loop well with whereas a flexible, all wood 5 ply blade like the Stratus Power Wood makes it easier for a mid level or high level amateur to generate more topspin.

When you are at a decent level though, the two Butterfly blades are great.


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Between the two blades the OP asked about, my initial answer is whichever one has a handle that fits your hand and grip better. Reading more closely, though, I have to ask WHICH ZJK blade? There are several variants depending on the composite layer (ALC, ZLC, sZLC, T5000). And the ZJK comes in FL, ST and AN handles, whereas Viscaria now only comes in FL.

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Whenever I see the question "which blade is better for looping", I cringe. It depends on so many factors. Looping by whom? With what rubber? On which side? Against topspin or underspin? From close in, mid-distance or further off the table? Third balls or fifth and on from there?

And if you loop a little better with your forehand, especially when someone is blocking to a comfortable place for you, will that setup allow you to play better? What are you giving up?

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UpSideDownCarl said:

They are the same blade with a different handle.

But the Stratus Power Wood is better for looping.


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So it's the exact same composition? Even the thickness of each layer of the wood?

I agree with Baal, at first I didn't like my ZJK ALC but then I figured out that it wasn't really comfortable in my hand, I had to trim the sides next to the handle and once it felt more comfortable in my hand, it is just great. Take the one that fits best in your hand

VicVoc32 said:

So it's the exact same composition? Even the thickness of each layer of the wood?

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The Viscaria and the ZJK ALC, the only difference is the handle. Each ply is the same and the same thickness. TB ALC and TB Spirit are pretty close to the same as the Viscaria and ZJK ALC too. 4 handles. All the same plies.

Perhaps Butterfly felt, "why mess with a good formula."


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VicVoc32 said:

So it's the exact same composition? Even the thickness of each layer of the wood?

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Looks that way to my naked eye but I didn't look super close. There may be stuff i don't see, maybe something about the way they glue them, or small differences in thickness that I'm not seeing, but if there are small differences, I don't think they matter much. The ALC ones I have a really similar in terms of speed, weight, and overall feel. Handles are a bit different, (although the FLs of ZJK and Viscaria felt pretty much equally comfortable for me, maybe not for everybody). The main thing about ZJK from my current perspective is it comes in ST. The bad thing is Btfly charges more for it for no good reason except that they can.

The Kenta Matsudaira is another blade with exactly the same composition and thickness according to the Butterfly spec charts.

NextLevel said:

The Kenta Matsudaira is another blade with exactly the same composition and thickness according to the Butterfly spec charts.

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I almost added this but figured, why go for overkill. Hahaha.


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Sorry guys, but I don`t agree, that Viscaria, Zhang Jike and Boll ALC are exactly the same, only with different handles. Of course the weight is also important, but if you compare these blades (with similar weight), the Viscaria is the softest in my eyes and a little bouncier than the other two while Boll ALC has the hardest and most direct feel. Zhang Jike ALC is in the middle of these 2 blades, not as soft and bouncy as the Viscaria but also not as direct as Boll ALC.

Of course I accept, that you are thinking different about this point, but this is my own experience and I have tested several of each of these blades. Generally you will find different feelings among all of these blades (especially very big differences between Viscaria blades), but a "middle" Viscaria is softer than a "middle" Boll ALC in my eyes.

Magic_M said:

Sorry guys, but I don`t agree, that Viscaria, Zhang Jike and Boll ALC are exactly the same, only with different handles. Of course the weight is also important, but if you compare these blades (with similar weight), the Viscaria is the softest in my eyes and a little bouncier than the other two while Boll ALC has the hardest and most direct feel. Zhang Jike ALC is in the middle of these 2 blades, not as soft and bouncy as the Viscaria but also not as direct as Boll ALC.

Of course I accept, that you are thinking different about this point, but this is my own experience and I have tested several of each of these blades. Generally you will find different feelings among all of these blades (especially very big differences between Viscaria blades), but a "middle" Viscaria is softer than a "middle" Boll ALC in my eyes.

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EJs and blade collectors often make such statements. Are there any two blades you would consider the same with little difference between them?

Handle and head shape can make a huge difference in personal comfort and feeling. But in how the blade actually plays, not that much.

Handle shape could conceivably affect how you sense the feel of a blade I think. It causes subtle grip changes and that will alter how you perceive the impact, also weight distribution. The outer surface of TB ALC seems like it has been treated with something that makes it shiny and I do think those are slightly harder when they are new. So in a sense I agree with MM.

But I still say the most meaningful basis for choosing between these blades is handle comfort and how it allows you to play short game and transition from side to side. The super-secret EJ considerations as to which one is softer or bouncier (on average) pale in comparison to handle and wing shape in terms of how much it affects your play -- at least within this group of blades (and especially comparing ZJK-ALC to Viscaria). More than anything that will dictate your preference. They are too much alike otherwise.

Even if blades are made of the same wood , composite , and thickness of plies, can feel and play different. It depends on where the handle is placed on the blade, higher up or lower on the blade and the shape of the wings, and width and thickness of the handle, and of course the weight of the blade. And wood being wood.

flash said:

Even if blades are made of the same wood , composite , and thickness of plies, can feel and play different. It depends on where the handle is placed on the blade, higher up or lower on the blade and the shape of the wings, and width and thickness of the handle, and of course the weight of the blade. And wood being wood.

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Yes. But not so radically different that one shot goes out on one blade and the other shot stays on the table with another blade. Most players who can play with one of the Koto ALC blades can play almost as well with any of the others with the same specs unless they dislike something significant about the handle. And wood being wood would apply to all the same blades of the same exact type. The thing is that if you look at the Butterfly specification charts, they don't even make an attempt to distinguish between the Koto ALC blades!

NextLevel said:

Yes. But not so radically different that one shot goes out on one blade and the other shot stays on the table with another blade. Most players who can play with one of the Koto ALC blades can play almost as well with any of the others with the same specs unless they dislike something significant about the handle. And wood being wood would apply to all the same blades of the same exact type. The thing is that if you look at the Butterfly specification charts, they don't even make an attempt to distinguish between the Koto ALC blades!

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Exactly. ESPECIALLY true for ZJK-ALC and Viscaria. IMHO the only reason to buy a ZJK-ALC is if you want one of these things in a non-FL handle. And I do feel fairly qualified to assess this. I have played exclusively with these kinds of blades for a decade.

Anyway, variations of this thread have been repeated ad nauseum ever since TT forums started, and picked up steam after ZJK emerged as a great player.

In science, especially biology, we often talk about two philosophies -- "lumpers" (who like to put things into large categories) and "splitters" (people who like to make fine distinctions between closely related items, even when they may not be really distinct). You see this a lot on EJ threads too. The thing about splitters on TT forums is that quite a few are extreme EJs.

I kind of take an intermediate position. I definitely would argue that Btfly has a good reason for making so many versions of this one very successful formula, at least a reason that goes a little bit beyond being able to jack up the price another few bucks every time they put someone else's name on a koto-ALC blade. They have figured out that the handle construction is a very important part of a blade (just as Flash noted). Blades with different handles and wings that are otherwise identical will play enough differently that people will have legitimate preferences for one over the other. (For example, the shape of a Maze-ST handle is simply not something I can play with).

The shape of a handle AND the wings affects grip somewhat and for certain affects what parts of your hand are exerting more or less pressure against different parts of the paddle. Therefore, handle shape has to affect how the blade feels, especially when it changes the weight balance. Also hollowness of the handle and hardness of the wood in the handle affects how vibrations are transmitted to the cutaneous sensory receptors in your hand. Weight and weight balance affect how proprioceptors in wrist and arm will feel things.

My opinion is that this is a lot more influential than any difference in the behavior of the underlying wood in koto ALC blades.

Baal said:

....cutaneous sensory receptors....

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Oh no you didn't. The goon squad has gotta be after you for sure for using a phrase like that. [emoji2]

Great post Baal.


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