table tennis tips "Increase Spin in table tennis by Chinese coaching"

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I am talking in general and some guys just take it personal.

One guy is talking about something he has no experience with. I on the other hand, want to dissuade people from saying things about backhand looping that are not true.

Watching Schlager, you can see why he can play a chopper with his technique while Ma Long cannot. People with a backhand that is able to be played with a focus on moving the elbow and shoulder to the ball can play larger strokes with their backhand and finish points as their hitting zone is larger. This weapon is still limited relative to the forehand but is pretty powerful.

I used to be able to play choppers easily with my backhand when my technique was more like this. Now j have shortened it and made it more like Ma Long for a focus on close to the table exchanges. Doesn't look anything like Ma Long but I am trying.

The main reason why the backhand is limited is the reasons that ERT have - it is hard to adapt it to balls that move outside the strike zone. Why take this risk when you have a weapon like the forehand? So most people set up for all forehand so they can deal more flexibly with the ball that moves around.
 
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Nice and simple explanation NL , agree with you 100% . My thought process was to go the other way , trying to play the smaller backhand over the table and the bigger one when out of position or away from the table , just trying to save or make up for the lack of footwork ... but since I was not taught the bigger backhand , or otherwise, I have found it very difficult to combine the two , compared to forehand where the flexibility in shortening the stroke feels easier to achieve ...
One guy is talking about something he has no experience with. I on the other hand, want to dissuade people from saying things about backhand looping that are not true.

Watching Schlager, you can see why he can play a chopper with his technique while Ma Long cannot. People with a backhand that is able to be played with a focus on moving the elbow and shoulder to the ball can play larger strokes with their backhand and finish points as their hitting zone is larger. This weapon is still limited relative to the forehand but is pretty powerful.

I used to be able to play choppers easily with my backhand when my technique was more like this. Now j have shortened it and made it more like Ma Long for a focus on close to the table exchanges. Doesn't look anything like Ma Long but I am trying.

The main reason why the backhand is limited is the reasons that ERT have - it is hard to adapt it to balls that move outside the strike zone. Why take this risk when you have a weapon like the forehand? So most people set up for all forehand so they can deal more flexibly with the ball that moves around.
 
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someone told me that the main reason why I should develop a stronger forehand (than backhand) is because of it's greater flexibility compared to the backhand- the forehand loop can be played from a greater number of positions compared to the backhand, improving it's versatility. typically to play a strong backhand loop (excluding over the table/flick, of course) you must have the ball flying towards your stomach, so the places where you can play a good forehand loop is fairly limited compared to forehand. as usual, there are exceptions.

this is why I think that zhang jike's backhand is so good as well- his amazing footwork, and athletic ability to move around explosively means that he is almost always in the perfect position to play a good backhand.
 
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Nice and simple explanation NL , agree with you 100% . My thought process was to go the other way , trying to play the smaller backhand over the table and the bigger one when out of position or away from the table , just trying to save or make up for the lack of footwork ... but since I was not taught the bigger backhand , or otherwise, I have found it very difficult to combine the two , compared to forehand where the flexibility in shortening the stroke feels easier to achieve ...

This video will give you an idea of how it is done. Watch the part beginning at 2:23 especially. Some people call the technique of this or other shoulder driven guys wrong. It's not as easy to do fast topspin exchanges with it, but for opening against chop or adjusting to balls with awkward footwork, it has some advantages. In the end, it is more important IMO to understand the benefits and negatives of different technique and to see what fits into your game. Henzell BTW mostly plays choppers with his forehand. Until I learned to carry my shoulder to the ball, I use to have problems adjusting to balls away from the table.

 
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NL is on my ignore list so I didn't see his response until ttmonster quoted his. I know ttmonster personally and I am not that impressed with his analysis. I don't think NL can execute his back hand loop kill against players at his level. Giving examples of some exceptional back hand players to say this is the norm is so naive or inexperience. Taking a look at all videos with someone against choppers, we at least see >90% of players must use forehand to get through the chopping defense.
 
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someone told me that the main reason why I should develop a stronger forehand (than backhand) is because of it's greater flexibility compared to the backhand- the forehand loop can be played from a greater number of positions compared to the backhand, improving it's versatility. typically to play a strong backhand loop (excluding over the table/flick, of course) you must have the ball flying towards your stomach, so the places where you can play a good forehand loop is fairly limited compared to forehand. as usual, there are exceptions.

this is why I think that zhang jike's backhand is so good as well- his amazing footwork, and athletic ability to move around explosively means that he is almost always in the perfect position to play a good backhand.

The ball doesn't have to be flying towards your stomach to play a backhand. It really depends on your technique and how you understand what your game is for. I don't believe you should develop a stronger forehand than backhand - I believe that the forehand is NATURALLY more powerful and flexible than the backhand and therefore you should develop the ability to use it for the situations it makes the most sense for. But because table tennis is a game of matchups, it is no accident that the last 3 world Champions were all competent backhand players, 2 of them (Wang Hao, Zhang Jike) reknown for their backhand play and the last (Ma Long) developing his backhand to be able to matchup favorably with such players. Wang Hao beat Ma Long in three straight World Championship semi-finals largely on the strength of his backhand play. His backhand was not his more powerful shot, but he used it to set up point patterns and play shots that frustrated Ma Long.

So develop a backhand that fits your strategy and tactics. But don't think that you can't develop a strong game plan around your backhand loop, in fact, I got to my level often by beating players who had weak backhands because they couldn't match up with mine and were too used to beating up on players who had weak backhands with their forehands. But since I could loop on both sides and out rally them with my backhand, even if they were 200 pts or more higher than me, I was able to upset them by setting up the point carefully to make backhand play the key driver of the match.
 
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@tropical : I am not sure who you are since you have not disclosed your identity , but that is fine , you must be somebody I know .

However, I am interested to understand whats wrong with the analysis . There are broadly two kind of backhands , broadly being the operative word here of course , , but setting aside those technicalities , there is one close to the table with the wrist as pivot and the one further from the table with the elbow as the pivot ....
Of course you cannot take on choppers with the shorter version , but I don't see anything wrong in that it could be done with the bigger version of the stroke , of course you need to have a very good backhand at your level to do it .. and it would depend on the choppers incoming spin ... but if somebody is using the below technique and practices it enough I don't see any issue ....

its just not common because, firstly , due to the faster rubbers and improvement in overall rubber technology , the other kind of backhand has become less common
secondly, we mostly watch techniques that are originated from the chinese, forehand oriented game . I am pretty sure if you get to see more footage of players from eastern europe / russia you would see more examples of people taking on choppers with their backhand ..





NL is on my ignore list so I didn't see his response until ttmonster quoted his. I know ttmonster personally and I am not that impressed with his analysis. I don't think NL can execute his back hand loop kill against players at his level. Giving examples of some exceptional back hand players to say this is the norm is so naive or inexperience. Taking a look at all videos with someone against choppers, we at least see >90% of players must use forehand to get through the chopping defense.
 
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DerEchte has seen me play choppers with my backhand, he can speak about it and decide whether the chopper was close enough to my level or not.

Here is me looping to the chopper who I practice with, you can decide watching it whether I can't BH loop to 2000 level choppers and win the point outright either with spin or power. I am much more mellow than I used to be because of arthritis in my wrist, elbow and shoulder, but you can get an idea of what I do from the video.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=gmrorMpd9hQ&feature=youtu.be&t=100
 
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ttmonster, it's just nonsense that players don't finish points with their backhand. Usually people's FH is stronger. If you've seen a professional kids' training, you must have noticed that FH loop gets more attention than BH loop. This way players tend to try to finish points with their FH. But as they reach a higher level, they all try to finish points with the backhand too. And power isn't equal with quality. I tend to agree with ttmonster that in eastern europe more players have a powerful BH (but not necessarily better).
Here is our coach against Seo Hyun Deok for example, but there are many other players in Hungary:
 
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@tropical : I am not sure who you are since you have not disclosed your identity , but that is fine , you must be somebody I know.

I think meanwhile it has become quite obvious, who´s hiding behind this identity and trying to rile up people again...
[Emoji12]
 
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