table tennis tips "Increase Spin in table tennis by Chinese coaching"

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Archosaurus points out the psychological factor all though he misunderstood what I was saying. I didnt evaluate LGL with 3/10 that was just an example, LGL himself said that he was poor in his rallying abilities but compensated with his serve receive, the opposite was kong linghui, simple serves but fantastic at rallies.

Yes credibility does matter to the point that you have proven or not yourself. but this does not take away the utility of a good advice no matter the credits of the coach.

I have experienced this myself, advising a team mate "dude you are too tense and impatient with your strokes" he didnt pay much attention. Then our provincial/national coach came by and told him the same thing with different words and he listened to him like a small child pays attention to the "godlike" teacher feeding him with expert advice.

I was annoyed but I understood the situation, before that I misunderstood my mate's character as "stubborn".

If carl or nextlevel or anyone in here gives advice to 100 players and then the same advice is given by LGL,rosskopf,tony,matt hetherington or whatever coach with credits then most likely, a much higher percentage of players will follow the advice of the credited coach although its the exact same thing!

That is true but since a player left his 2500 level coach to work with me, I can tell you that what serious adults seek when it comes to table tennis improvement is effective and understandable coaching. That is not always about playing level, it is about relating to what the player is experiencing. And if someone started playing seriously at a later age in life, unless Rosskopf has spent a significant amount of time coaching someone like that, and he may or may not have, he may not be able to relate to that person like I can. It might sound crazy but it is true.

A time may come when the student leaves me to work with someone else. That is good too. The student may then have learned enough that he can now build a bridge to advanced coaching advice. Right now, after working with my coaches, I can interprete a lot of table tennis intelligently. Many so called high level coaches are really high level glorified trainers. Coaching is not just about displaying good technique, it is about working with the student to get an effective solution to their problems with their constraints and limitations. It's easy to just do drills you did as a kid, explaining the logic is what makes coaching adults hard.
 
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It's certainly good that EmRat uses top players to demonstrate - they have best technique and that serves as a template for how to perform the strokes etc. And you can be sure that trying to emulate the best at least gets you in the right direction. I'm not interested in watching players who are worse than me, that is not a good source for improvement. It's more efficient to show what's correct instead of what's incorrect.

I don't think there is any need to judge anyone. I know this guy who was in his 70s last time I saw him. He can't play great. He is pretty old. He can't move well. But he can coach. He coaches great. Even though, a lot of the time when he is coaching, he is sitting and watching and making corrections to both players as he sets up training drills. And if you watch him coach, you can tell he is a decent level coach. And when the students don't get a principle and he gets up and demonstrates, you instantly know he knows what he is doing even though he can barely walk.

I would love to see video of EmRatThich doing what he does best. No need to judge or disrespect. Everything I have heard from him is solid info. I just see he always uses top level players to demonstrate his info. And I would love to see him coaching and his students learning in action.


Sent from The Subterranean Workshop by Telepathy
 
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The problem is that when one tries to incorporate something in their game and/or change technique, the positive effect appears after at least several months of dedicated training at best, if they did everything right. Moreover, proper technique may feel awkward at first but yield results in the long run. So it is very difficult to judge whether things will work out. Therefore, it is too dangerous to try some random "advice" on the internet and stick with it -- it may result in new bad habits and lost time and effort.

I do get your point, Ilia, it's much more difficult to get rid of bad habits than doing things proper from the start.
But developing bad habits could happen also in real life with a coach, 'cause not everyone responds to given advice in the same way. Everybody has his own interpretation of reality and i guess that is also a reason why a well known coach like Greg Letts a.k.a. DTopSpirit wrote something like this here not too long ago.

DTopSpirit said:
Bottom line 2: Over the years I have learnt that a lot of table tennis advice should be prefaced with the term - "It depends on...". The same tip can be good, neutral or terrible depending on the circumstances of the player receiving the tip. I see a lot more grey and a lot less black and white in this regard these days.

So if an advice is helpful to someone, then who am i to judge about this.

But that being said, in times with all kind of internet frauds i believe it's crucial to question things and have as much transparency as possible.
 
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Musaab, what is your playing level? You have written a lot of stuff about me and my qualifications based in my videos. I am interested in your qualifications since you claim that I am obviously not qualified to judge someone even though I gave specific examples of what he said that was dubious and lead one to question his credibility. Maybe your sharing your playing level will help put everything into perspective. Thanks. I find that when people share their playing level and evidence of it, they tend to be far less rude.

I'm not trying to be rude but feel free to think so. I'm humble enough to say that I'm definitely a beginner, Actually I only started like last year or little more. I'm not claiming any experience or playing better than anyone. However, I have been to enough tournaments of all levels, just few weeks ago I've been to a Pro match where I got the chance to see Liam, Kreanga Chen Chien An. My club has players from regional till national levels. No need to mention youtube videos (including yours). It is not that hard to tell from a video if someone is good or not. Anyway, I would be happy if this guy continues his videos that I like, and you may keep doing what you do, best of luck you BOTH.
 
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I'm not trying to be rude but feel free to think so. I'm humble enough to say that I'm definitely a beginner, Actually I only started like last year or little more. I'm not claiming any experience or playing better than anyone. However, I have been to enough tournaments of all levels, just few weeks ago I've been to a Pro match where I got the chance to see Liam, Kreanga Chen Chien An. My club has players from regional till national levels. No need to mention youtube videos (including yours). It is not that hard to tell from a video if someone is good or not. Anyway, I would be happy if this guy continues his videos that I like, and you may keep doing what you do, best of luck you BOTH.

It's much harder than you think to tell from a video whether a guy is good or not. If you have truly only been playing a year, be a little more humble until you actually have played enough to understand why those of us who do not know EmratThich are suspicious. I suspect you may actually know him which is why you defend him.
 
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It's certainly good that EmRat uses top players to demonstrate - they have best technique and that serves as a template for how to perform the strokes etc. And you can be sure that trying to emulate the best at least gets you in the right direction. I'm not interested in watching players who are worse than me, that is not a good source for improvement. It's more efficient to show what's correct instead of what's incorrect.

Top players are good models for people who know what they are doing. You would learn much more if you saw what these top players were doing when they were at your stage of playing and knowing its relevance to your game. What they do now is the end of a process and it is more important for you to participate in that process rather than to pretend to be enlightened by the finished result. Pretending that table tennis is about what you can see is a dangerous exercise, you only see the iceberg of the finished product which floats above the water. The stuff underneath which is the process that built the player is much larger. Many misconceptions in TT come from failing to separate or integrate the process and the results properly.
 
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It's much harder than you think to tell from a video whether a guy is good or not. If you have truly only been playing a year, be a little more humble until you actually have played enough to understand why those of us who do not know EmratThich are suspicious. I suspect you may actually know him which is why you defend him.

I truly don't, but that bit of a advice on what I thought a simple issue like "how to hold the blade", and the demonstration that goes with it to see that you can better rotate your wriste holding the blade the way he described, and most importantly the change I observed the next day in my training. this giv'em some credit already
 
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I truly don't, but that bit of a advice on what I thought a simple issue like "how to hold the blade", and the demonstration that goes with it to see that you can better rotate your wriste holding the blade the way he described, and most importantly the change I observed the next day in my training. this giv'em some credit already

That was a good video but there is really much more to it than that. But you have to have the experience to know that, and I think you could arrive at the same result if you watched Brett's video on advanced mechanics and grip tension.
 
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I can understand what you're saying but don't fully agree. One should never solely build his whole game around watching videos, and I don't think that is what anyone is referring to either, the thing is to take a few pointers like how to hold the bat (for those who don't know) or how to put the legs and hip into the stroke and then go and try it yourself and make it part of YOUR game. I've always produced plenty of power and used a bit of legs and hips when doing the strokes but now more than ever and I hit clearly harder and spinnier than before after adjusting. Bulding stronger legs and body as a whole has helped as well.

Top players are good models for people who know what they are doing. You would learn much more if you saw what these top players were doing when they were at your stage of playing and knowing its relevance to your game. What they do now is the end of a process and it is more important for you to participate in that process rather than to pretend to be enlightened by the finished result. Pretending that table tennis is about what you can see is a dangerous exercise, you only see the iceberg of the finished product which floats above the water. The stuff underneath which is the process that built the player is much larger. Many misconceptions in TT come from failing to separate or integrate the process and the results properly.
 
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Who knows what the maximum is? And while I have power I need to polish on consistency. I'm no pro but I played lots of TT 25-ish years ago and picked it up again more conciously about a year ago. I practice with buddies in a div 3 and 6 team here and play at work every day so I'd say I know how to hit the ball. What I lack mostly is what every one does that doesn't compete regularly - serves and receiving to kill the ball.

I need to produce a video for you to feel better? Well, that is really not of my concern. I have my playing pals to help me out, thanks anyway.

@RidTheKid

So you've produced a good percentage of your maximum power already, and by applying tips from a video, you've increased it noticeably more from there?


We're gonna need some playing level proof for this one. Otherwise you're just talking silly things.
 
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I can understand what you're saying but don't fully agree. One should never solely build his whole game around watching videos, and I don't think that is what anyone is referring to either, the thing is to take a few pointers like how to hold the bat (for those who don't know) or how to put the legs and hip into the stroke and then go and try it yourself and make it part of YOUR game. I've always produced plenty of power and used a bit of legs and hips when doing the strokes but now more than ever and I hit clearly harder and spinnier than before after adjusting. Bulding stronger legs and body as a whole has helped as well.

First of all, a lot of the backlash Emrathich is getting is from calling these things Chinese secrets, If you look at any top pro, they are hitting the ball with their core, not just the Chinese. In fact, the Chinese will tell you that they learned such "secrets" from watching Ogimura, the great Japanese champ of the early inverted days. But I have said that I accepted it as marketing, even if it is dubious to put it that way.

The other thing is that some of these things are not going to work for everyone and it helps to understand who the coach is really speaking to and why. Gripping your finger with the two main fingers is often preached but is hardly the truth. There are coaches who preach using the lower three fingers and that has its important uses as well depending on the stroke and how you hold the paddle.
 
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table tennis tips "Increase Spin in table tennis by Chinese coaching"

NextLevel has presented some really valuable info. One thing I will say about NextLevel is, until I played against him, I never really knew how good he actually is. It is hard to tell from video. But when you hit with him and train, or play matches with him and get into it you realize there is more than meets the eye to what he is doing. He has also explained the context within which his coaching has value. Not many people know how to work with adults and help them improve at this sport.

There are many things I have heard from EmRatThich that are decent pieces of information. Sorry Archo, he is different than you. My suggestion to you would be to stop arguing because you are only making yourself look bad.

However, what NextLevel has said about the false distinctions and the setting up of a false dichotomy--Chinese Secrets=Good, Europeans and others=THE WRONG WAY--does make me question a Vietnamese man who lives in France and his motives for presenting that he is a coach who has the Chinese secrets.

But NextLevel brought up something hugely valuable: CONTEXT FOR INFORMATION.

A coach who is telling a player whose arm IS relaxed, to relax his arm is giving information that is beside the point because it is already happening.

A coach who tells a student to turn his hips on an FH when the student is already doing it, but isn't doing something else may not be seeing the student and may just be parroting information.

When I used to teach yoga teachers how to teach I used to explain what I think teaching is:

Teaching is a problem solving issue around a subject. You have a person who doesn't understand something, and the problem solving is a process of figuring out what exercises or information will help that specific person go from not understanding to understanding.

A lot of how many people think of learning is as an intellectual process. But with something like TT, you can understand something very well and yet, you are still not able to do it. So, for physical learning, it is more than that. And a person who is able to take someone from not being able to loop, to being able to loop, could be good at coaching that and maybe not so good as a coach overall.

There may be other people who are good at coaching very high level players and not as good at coaching fundamentals to someone newer to TT. There are many versions of good coaching. In some fields what I am talking about could be called specializing. One coach good at teaching fundamental techniques; another coach good at teaching game skills, a third good at teaching game strategy.

The main thing here is that a good coach is able to be creative, problem solve whatever issue is causing the particular player to not be good at a certain skill, and implement a strategy to try and get that player to improve and work past whatever is holding him back on a particular issue.

These videos, on many levels, are presenting fine information, that for some players will be ground breaking, for other players will be useful but not so special, for others the information will be totally beside the point. Because the information is just principles without a player who needs to work on a specific issue.

But it is hard for internet information in video form to be specific to a person's actual needs without something like what Brett does where he gets a person to send him video and then says: "try this, see if it helps."

So the information about TT techniques I don't have much problem with. But the comments that simple information about biomechanics for table tennis fundamentals somehow come from one specific race or nationality....I could live without that. Mechanics are mechanics.

But all this being said, I would really like to see EmRatThich coaching and the range of players he is effective at helping.




Sent from The Subterranean Workshop by Telepathy
 
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nextlevel has a good point about context, but always when he does this he always goes WAY too far, attacking everyone and then finding some really sad conspiracy why people disagree with him - (eg, Musaab knows EmRat). It is a good idea to take information with a pinch of salt, but there is no need to be aggressive about it, discrediting everyone.

Summary: Point Relevance (A+++), delivery (D-) :)

And then there is Archosaurous. I've read your posts and have never seen you post a legit video of yourself playing in a real manner. So I don't think that you should keep on asking for videos. I don't know you personally, but there is a dual personality thing going on, methinks.

I have no problem with people not posting videos of themselves and giving advice- it just comes down to whether people are willing to believe it.

Interesting videos by the way.
 
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@doraemon

My apologies your highness. For future videos I will conform to your completely vague standards of what is legitimate and what is not so that your justified and totally not completely irrelevant criticism shall not strike upon me. :rolleyes:

@RidTheKid

You don't need to post any video to make me feel good. Although I do like looking at other people play and I think we would appreciate it if you did.

I was just trying to establish some context. Your post makes more sense with what you've told us. My wording was just bad and attacking, sorry.

@Suga D

It's okay. What can I do. My monday was rubbish as well, I understand. :p

I'm not sure if you and Carl have understood why I'm asking for video from him. I'm not trying to "find him out" like Carl seems to think. There's an obvious content difference in the things I've said while completely anonymous, and the things he has. Even then, it's not some contest.


Think of the viewers on his channel. Isn't it better they know what his game is really like? I would argue the forums would also respect him even more.

However I'd also argue that part of his videos is the Chinese Super Secret Technique marketing scheme, and if it comes public that he's not really LGL putting on a good act and posting on a proxy, then maybe the effect would not work anymore. ;)
 
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@doraemon

My apologies your highness. For future videos I will conform to your completely vague standards of what is legitimate and what is not so that your justified and totally not completely irrelevant criticism shall not strike upon me. :rolleyes:
Well, playing on an actual table would be a good start, instead of "showing" your stroke and bouncing a ball. And my criticism is justified, although I think you do not understand it,so I will communicate in simple terms- asking for a video which shows EmRat's level is hypocrisy from your part

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/hypocrisy
 
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Well, playing on an actual table would be a good start, instead of "showing" your stroke and bouncing a ball. And my criticism is justified, although I think you do not understand it,so I will communicate in simple terms- asking for a video which shows EmRat's level is hypocrisy from your part

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/hypocrisy

Ah, now I understand. You've missed a few videos I've posted a few months ago. I was under the impression that you were talking about those.

Anyway, send me a PM if you really care to see them. I'm not posting them here.
 
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