Black Metal Tag Butterfly price inflation

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https://www.schmetterball-tt.de/de/hoelzer/sort-by/price/sort-direction/desc

Just came across this site for the first time and was quite shocked at some of the prices for old butterfly blades on there. 3990 Euros for a butterfly Carbon Tamaca 5000 can't be right, surely! GIn comparison the Primorac, for under 750 Euros almost seems cheap.

Are there any other shops online selling these types of blades for similar prices? Are these prices actually anywhere near reflective of the value of these blades? I wonder what this shop would ask for that Black Tag Viscaria that's on ebay for 3500 pounds at the moment.
 
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I use a black tag Viscaria and I like it a lot, but it is not worth what I could get for it if I put it up for sale now.
 
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https://www.schmetterball-tt.de/de/hoelzer/sort-by/price/sort-direction/desc

Just came across this site for the first time and was quite shocked at some of the prices for old butterfly blades on there. 3990 Euros for a butterfly Carbon Tamaca 5000 can't be right, surely! GIn comparison the Primorac, for under 750 Euros almost seems cheap.

Are there any other shops online selling these types of blades for similar prices? Are these prices actually anywhere near reflective of the value of these blades?

Well, i agree that these blades are really expensive, but i'm quite sure that most people paying such an amount never use them for playing but instead hang them on their walls.
And the value for collectible items always lies in the eyes of the collector, or do you think paint on a piece of canvas is worth millions just 'cause it was painted a couple of centuries ago?
mona-lisa-smoking-a-joint.jpg

I wonder what this shop would ask for that Black Tag Viscaria that's on ebay for 3500 pounds at the moment.

Here you go.
https://www.schmetterball-tt.de/de/...nd-guter-zustand-mit-metallschmetterling.html
 
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This place is notorious.

The pricing is part of the attraction, and can be negotiated.

On a personal note, not every old blade is a good blade - but people are so in awe of the black tag that no-one dares express any disappointment. My off the mill 2016 Primorac Carbon is better than any black tag version of the same model I ever played or owned ...

Mostly therefore, these really are for collectors. But the prices are a joke.
 
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Not only that, but some of the overpriced blades being sold on that site were not even particularly good when they were new and probably didn't improve with age.

Another pricing atrocity that caught my eye was one of his Stiga Carbonado 245s for the "low low price" of 200 euros, which is relatively a recently introduced blade than be purchased new for 166 euros at TT11. In fact, his prices for those blades seemed to vary for no obvious reason.

Makes no sense to me.
 
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Well, i agree that these blades are really expensive, but i'm quite sure that most people paying such an amount never use them for playing but instead hang them on their walls.
And the value for collectible items always lies in the eyes of the collector, or do you think paint on a piece of canvas is worth millions just 'cause it was painted a couple of centuries ago?




Here you go.
https://www.schmetterball-tt.de/de/...nd-guter-zustand-mit-metallschmetterling.html

I would have thought that 80% of the people that buy these blades do it to play with them, or at least try them out a few times. I get that old Stiga blades might be bought as collectibles but I think these blades here are sold to be played with.

As regards that painting (I think I've seen it before somewhere...) value, especially in art is of course socially defined. A large part of somethings value is determined by the fact that other people agree and thus validate the value of something. And here lies my gripe with this shop's pricing: I don't think enough people agree with the prices here set and thus the blades are not sold at their 'actual' current value.

The Viscaria they have for sale, it's a flared and used version, unlike the one on ebay which is new and straight handled (and same production line as ZJK's I think). If this shop had the one on ebay they'd probably be asking for over 10000.
 
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Well, from my perspective, these prices are more than just ridiculous. They are totally crazy.

I guess, if someone wants to go out of their way to pay that much for a blade, then I don't have too much to say about it.

There are plenty of ways to waste your money that are even more foolish than this. But that is what it is: a foolish waste of money.

A couple of months ago, a guy on this forum was posting that he was looking for a Michael Maze black tag blade. I had a feeling I knew why. Now, recently he has posted that he has a Michael Maze black tag to sell for 685£ which is about $850 (USD) and 801€.

Now, I'm sorry, but, I have a feeling I know why he was looking for that blade.

BUT AGAIN, IF SOMEONE REALLY WANTS TO BUY STUFF LIKE THAT AT THAT PRICE, IT ISN'T MY BUSINESS.

However, it should be noted, for the people who somehow think, paying more means you get something that is of a higher quality....or for the naive EJ who think something like this would help you play better or even enjoy the sport more....it won't. These would be vanity purchases. And, there is some way in which that may be okay.

But if you want to improve at this sport you need quality practice and training. And you may do better spending that money on COACHING instead.

$850.00 (USD: UpSideDownDollars) could get me a lot of good coaching.

And there are so many $40.00 blades on the market that are more than good enough for me. Inexpensive rubbers abound as well.


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Some guy bought a custom ST Viscaria from me for $220. I had paid $257 to have it made. Next week he was selling it for £600! As in ster.ing. I sold it because it wasn't a very good blade.
 
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Is it just me or do i smell a whole heap of envy and jealousy in here? *Lulz*
[emoji2]
Some people are having a 200$ surf 'n turf dinner just to be flushing it down the drain afterwards, so judging on this seems a bit off to me.
a) this shop isn't in business since last week, and also probably won't go out of business in the next couple of weeks, so i'm quite sure they know what they're doing.
:)

b) I really doubt anyone would take 2,000 EUR to bang it accidentally on the table.
Well i wouldn't, but whatever...
What i do know is that sometimes collectors do crazy things to get the wanted collectibles.
There is this one guy in our league who used to play Bundesliga in the eighties and i know he paid a few hundred bucks just to get a blade that he used to play back then. But he's a totally normal guy that just got tempted feeling young again.

And Carl, sorry to say, but i thought commenting on people's pricing is against the forum rules, my friend!! I thought the rules are for everyone! Don't know why you want to make Chen Chen look like this now! You might wanna edit this over!
 
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Suga, it's just you. :D

Commenting on price people are asking HERE is not the same as commenting on prices at a different website.
 
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https://www.schmetterball-tt.de/de/hoelzer/sort-by/price/sort-direction/desc

Just came across this site for the first time and was quite shocked at some of the prices for old butterfly blades on there. 3990 Euros for a butterfly Carbon Tamaca 5000 can't be right, surely! GIn comparison the Primorac, for under 750 Euros almost seems cheap.

Are there any other shops online selling these types of blades for similar prices? Are these prices actually anywhere near reflective of the value of these blades? I wonder what this shop would ask for that Black Tag Viscaria that's on ebay for 3500 pounds at the moment.
I feel a bit foolish now but last month I found a Butterfly Tamca 5000 in the original but really beat up looking package in my closet.I gave it to the players at TexasTech who needed a racquet....I had no idea it was worth anything.
 
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I have a petr korbel black tag on its way which cost me about 3x the price of the two models ( japan and china_) i have already. Im going to add cover tape to them all 3 and do a blind test to really see if i can tell a difference in the way they play
 
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I can agree on that, but my comment was rather directed towards the statement about another forum member.

Hey, Suga D, I think the member you are talking about is a valuable forum member. I think he is a business man and doesn't hide it.

I am not commenting in his thread about his prices. I am commenting in a different thread which is about items for sale at premium, perhaps artificially inflated prices, on how, a short while ago, he was looking for a Maze blade. And now he is selling it. And I listed his price.

I know you like this guy I mentioned and I believe he gets legit products. I see nothing wrong with what he is doing. Perhaps you are right though. Perhaps I should not have mentioned his name. I am sure I can edit this stuff so it doesn't mention a name.

However, I am not criticizing his price in his for sale thread which is the rule to which you are referring.

I also know that the last time I talked to Wang Chen about H3 National, her price to me was $80.00 USD and she was trying to convince me that I didn't need the National stuff. But I am confident that her source is real since she was actually on the Chinese National Team. It's a good product from either source. But Wang Chen charges much less than most online sources I have seen.

And I want it to be clear: there is nothing wrong with being a business man.

Baal mentioned a guy who bought a blade from him for $220. and turned around and sold it for £600.

It's the same thing. If you sell something and can create the market for it at the price you want to sell it, that is called business. But one can assert that the price is artificially inflated by a myth of its supposed value, if one believes that to actually be true. And you are actually correct to point out that value is determined by a collective market.

By the way, I like your Mona Lisa smoking the spliff. It did make me laugh.

For some, the seller from this forum is providing a service. For others, the price is too high. I personally would rather a $50.00 blade and $800.00 of coaching than an $850.00 blade and no coaching. That is for me. But there are other people who may appreciate his service in hunting down and locating that hard to find blade.

And if I had unlimited resources I would definitely want to get my hands on a few of those old Stiga blades. And it definitely would not be for playing.

But I do feel there is a market for these kinds of Butterfly black tag blades that has been artificially created by the myth of how good the black tag blades were. And don't get me wrong, they were good. But I don't think they were good enough to substantiate prices like 10,000£.


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By the way, here is a song Tom Paxton wrote in the 1970s (maybe it was the 60s) about a related subject. As a kid I loved this song and thought it was hysterical. I still think it is pretty funny.

Talking Pop Art by Tom Paxton:




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I think it's great that the seller is able to sell the old beaten up blades that usualy play worse than new ones for exuberant price. That's one hell of a salesman.

I also think it's great that the Table Tennis blades are seen as collectible item by some. Us players have nothing to lose by collectors picking up old(and worse) blades from the market. My club's TT shop has recently been swept up by keen collectors, the owner was very happy to see 10+ years dead stocks fly.
 
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Well, from my perspective, these prices are more than just ridiculous. They are totally crazy.

I guess, if someone wants to go out of their way to pay that much for a blade, then I don't have too much to say about it.

There are plenty of ways to waste your money that are even more foolish than this. But that is what it is: a foolish waste of money.

A couple of months ago, a guy on this forum was posting that he was looking for a Michael Maze black tag blade. I had a feeling I knew why. Now, recently he has posted that he has a Michael Maze black tag to sell for 685£ which is about $850 (USD) and 801€.

Now, I'm sorry, but, I have a feeling I know why he was looking for that blade.

BUT AGAIN, IF SOMEONE REALLY WANTS TO BUY STUFF LIKE THAT AT THAT PRICE, IT ISN'T MY BUSINESS.

However, it should be noted, for the people who somehow think, paying more means you get something that is of a higher quality....or for the naive EJ who think something like this would help you play better or even enjoy the sport more....it won't. These would be vanity purchases. And, there is some way in which that may be okay.

But if you want to improve at this sport you need quality practice and training. And you may do better spending that money on COACHING instead.

$850.00 (USD: UpSideDownDollars) could get me a lot of good coaching.

And there are so many $40.00 blades on the market that are more than good enough for me. Inexpensive rubbers abound as well.


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Thank you for your thoughts about the old black tag blades and your feedback about my price.

First of all, I was looking for maze old black tag one year ago. The date I posted on TTD was 11th Feb 2016. At that time, I was looking for my blade and didn't settle at all.

Secondly, I paid a lot for that Maze as well. Everyone's thoughts about the value of things is different. What I believe and what I do is that getting the best equipment you could find on the market if money is not the problem and training hard afterwards. Then you won't have any excuse for yourself to blame for. I do pay quite a bit for coaching as well in both UK and China by the way.

Thirdly, Now I know which blade I am going for, so I put this maze on the shelf to pass on, not sure about the market price, what I do know is how much I paid for it though. Do you have any idea about the guide price on Maze old black tag in this super condition?

At last, Creating a story for somebody you don't know at all makes you look wiser than the others on this forum??
 
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Some guy bought a custom ST Viscaria from me for $220. I had paid $257 to have it made. Next week he was selling it for £600! As in ster.ing. I sold it because it wasn't a very good blade.

I sort of know who you are talking about. :)
 
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