Black Metal Tag Butterfly price inflation

says Thank you for your all interest. Please email me at...
says Thank you for your all interest. Please email me at...
Member
Oct 2015
402
336
751
Hey, Suga D, I think the member you are talking about is a valuable forum member. I think he is a business man and doesn't hide it.

I am not commenting in his thread about his prices. I am commenting in a different thread which is about items for sale at premium, perhaps artificially inflated prices, on how, a short while ago, he was looking for a Maze blade. And now he is selling it. And I listed his price.

I know you like this guy I mentioned and I believe he gets legit products. I see nothing wrong with what he is doing. Perhaps you are right though. Perhaps I should not have mentioned his name. I am sure I can edit this stuff so it doesn't mention a name.

However, I am not criticizing his price in his for sale thread which is the rule to which you are referring.

I also know that the last time I talked to Wang Chen about H3 National, her price to me was $80.00 USD and she was trying to convince me that I didn't need the National stuff. But I am confident that her source is real since she was actually on the Chinese National Team. It's a good product from either source. But Wang Chen charges much less than most online sources I have seen.

And I want it to be clear: there is nothing wrong with being a business man.

Baal mentioned a guy who bought a blade from him for $220. and turned around and sold it for £600.

It's the same thing. If you sell something and can create the market for it at the price you want to sell it, that is called business. But one can assert that the price is artificially inflated by a myth of its supposed value, if one believes that to actually be true. And you are actually correct to point out that value is determined by a collective market.

By the way, I like your Mona Lisa smoking the spliff. It did make me laugh.

For some, the seller from this forum is providing a service. For others, the price is too high. I personally would rather a $50.00 blade and $800.00 of coaching than an $850.00 blade and no coaching. That is for me. But there are other people who may appreciate his service in hunting down and locating that hard to find blade.

And if I had unlimited resources I would definitely want to get my hands on a few of those old Stiga blades. And it definitely would not be for playing.

But I do feel there is a market for these kinds of Butterfly black tag blades that has been artificially created by the myth of how good the black tag blades were. And don't get me wrong, they were good. But I don't think they were good enough to substantiate prices like 10,000£.


Sent from The Subterranean Workshop by Telepathy


If I treat table tennis as a business, my family will be starving after one day.

If she offered you 80 USD for one national version rubber, which is 64-65 pounds. I am selling one sheet to the members for 70 pounds on this forum, meanwhile I have to pay 5% paypal fee on each sale. Looks like my offer is quite good too according to what you are saying.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Suga D
says Spin and more spin.
says Spin and more spin.
Well-Known Member
Super Moderator
Dec 2010
16,146
17,686
54,748
Read 11 reviews
I have to be honest, all these blades that are being sold for large amounts, $300.00, $500.00, $800.00, $4,000.00. I am not going to blame the sellers. They have created a marked for what they are selling one way or another. But a blade that is being sold for prices like that, there is a vulnerability in the market that makes it possible to sell a product for that kind of price. I don't care who is doing the buying or the selling, and you can't have sellers without people willing to pay those prices, but those kinds of prices are artificially inflated based on hype that is not exactly real.

Again, black tag blades are often quite good. But not that good.

I used to have a Black Tag Viscaria. I sold it for $70.00 to a friend liked the way it played. I wasn't looking to sell it. But I had it and I didn't like it and was never going to use it. And he liked it so I sold it to him. I felt that was what it was worth. I didn't care what I got it for. And I would not have sold it for more than that. I sold it for what I felt it was worth. End of story.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Shuki and DJeX
This user has no status.
This user has no status.
Well-Known Member
Apr 2014
1,486
1,087
2,609
Read 3 reviews
I don't care who is doing the buying or the selling, and you can't have sellers without people willing to pay those prices, but those kinds of prices are artificially inflated based on hype that is not exactly real.

Again, black tag blades are often quite good. But not that good.

Well said.
 
  • Like
Reactions: UpSideDownCarl
says ok, I will go back and make sure you have access. Be...
says ok, I will go back and make sure you have access. Be...
Well-Known Member
Nov 2010
3,568
5,931
10,356
Read 8 reviews
I have given a way several pretty bad black tag Viscarias over the years and I still have one in my closet gathering dust.

But the one I play with is a work of genius. Black tag and fish scale, and yet, I'm not certain that those two features have anything to do with why this particular blade is so good.
 
This user has no status.
This user has no status.
Member
Apr 2016
130
62
192
I have given a way several pretty bad black tag Viscarias over the years and I still have one in my closet gathering dust.

But the one I play with is a work of genius. Black tag and fish scale, and yet, I'm not certain that those two features have anything to do with why this particular blade is so good.

What is its weight? ill bet my money that is why it is so good.
 
says ok, I will go back and make sure you have access. Be...
says ok, I will go back and make sure you have access. Be...
Well-Known Member
Nov 2010
3,568
5,931
10,356
Read 8 reviews
90 grams a d perfectly balanced and something about its handle jus fits my hand better. I've owned way too many Viscarias and have never had another one as good. One I have that comes close has a silver tag.
 
  • Like
Reactions: DJeX
This user has no status.
I have given a way several pretty bad black tag Viscarias over the years and I still have one in my closet gathering dust.

But the one I play with is a work of genius. Black tag and fish scale, and yet, I'm not certain that those two features have anything to do with why this particular blade is so good.

I currently have a Black Tag Mazunov and a Black Tag Korbel... I haven't tried a new Mazunov yet but the one I have is pretty good. The Black Tag Korbel I have though is very different to the new ones. That aside the black tag Gergely,Sardius and Schalger blades are still quite popular here in the Philippines. Though at least you don't see them being sold at $500 or so. Usually they go between $60-$150 depending on the condition.
 
  • Like
Reactions: UpSideDownCarl
says ok, I will go back and make sure you have access. Be...
says ok, I will go back and make sure you have access. Be...
Well-Known Member
Nov 2010
3,568
5,931
10,356
Read 8 reviews
Same dude who bought my custom Viscaria and wanted to sell it for 600 pounds is offering a black tag Viscaria at MyTT for the low low everyday price of 700 pounds sterling. Over there it is ok to comment about price (an amendment to rules there I was convinced to allow on a trial basis, that so far has been ok). I think he should be mocked.
 
This user has no status.
Same dude who bought my custom Viscaria and wanted to sell it for 600 pounds is offering a black tag Viscaria at MyTT for the low low everyday price of 700 pounds sterling. Over there it is ok to comment about price (an amendment to rules there I was convinced to allow on a trial basis, that so far has been ok). I think he should be mocked.

Outrageous!!!
 
says Spin and more spin.
says Spin and more spin.
Well-Known Member
Super Moderator
Dec 2010
16,146
17,686
54,748
Read 11 reviews
Ely Cole is a guy who has a regular job but sells table tennis equipment through a website. He basically sells inexpensive alternatives to the more expensive equipment out there.

http://colestt.com

There are a couple of more expensive products like a $149.00 Yinhe Galaxy 4V ZLC blade.

Here is his write up on it:

"Speed: OFF
Weight: 86g ±3
Plies: 5W + 2zlc

This is Yinhe's top-of-the-line, modern zylon composite blade. It retails at $199 and costs me over $100."

He includes a link to a review of the blade on tabletennisdb.com.

But he also has blades for as inexpensive as $14.00. And most of the blades he carries are in a range between $14.00-$55.00 with many inexpensive offerings in the under $22.00 range.

In his smooth rubber section, prices range from $8.00 to about $22.00.

In response to someone trying to convince him to upgrade his site and how he could make more sales with an upgraded site his response was that he wasn't sure he could handle more sales and he was sure he didn't want a significant change in that area since what he was doing was providing people who could not afford the higher priced equipment that gets sold by the major TT companies an inexpensive alternative because he loves the sport.

I think there is a place for that.

I also think there is a place for the super high priced "collectors item" blades that get sold for $400.00, $600.00, $4,000.00.

Is this market of blades that have been mythologized to the point that they can be sold for those kind of amounts good or bad for table tennis?

It is a good question. I am not sure I have the answer. But I actually don't think it does anything bad for the sport. And it does show that there are people who play this sport who have an interest in things like this. I can't really see how that is bad. Even if I would not be one of the people selling blades for those kinds of sums.

The people who don't want to spend that kind of money, won't. The people who are so adamant about wanting one of those blades that garner those kinds of prices, will pay, or the prices would not be able to escalate to that degree.

So I am not sure there is really any harm in sellers who are offering "rare" items relatively high prices. But it is okay to see what that service is in a clear and accurate manner.


Sent from The Subterranean Workshop by Telepathy
 
says Spin and more spin.
says Spin and more spin.
Well-Known Member
Super Moderator
Dec 2010
16,146
17,686
54,748
Read 11 reviews
A related detail:

Wood is wood. Different trees of the same kind will have slight differences. A cut of wood from the same tree, but from a slightly different part of the tree will be slightly different.

Each blade plays a little differently than any other of its kind.

And although it is true that there are blades that are crafted or produced that end up being of higher quality and others that end up being not so high quality.

I am happy to be playing with a hand made blade that I like. It was not too expensive. But it was not inexpensive either. However, I am confident that there are several blades that cost around $40.00-$50.00 that would be fine for me if I didn't have this blade.

And it makes sense that some of the Butterfly black tag blades were really good and some were not. Because any blade is made up mostly of wood. Which is at least part of why some Viscarias (or any other blade for that matter) are better than others.

And if anyone is really interested in Butterfly black tag blades then they should look up a blade company called Double Day:

http://www.ping-pong.tw/index.php?manufacturers_id=50&sort=0a&language=en

That is the actual company that Butterfly outsourced to for the black tag blades. In other words, that is the company that actually made the Butterfly black tag blades. And their blades are pretty inexpensive!

By the way, I have 2 Mazinov blades that I got in 1991. They are not black tag. But the Butterfly Klampar-H that I bought in the same year is a black tag blade. So the black tag Mazinovs must have been made later than my Mazinov blades. Hmmmm: what would those be worth. [emoji2] But they are not for sale.


Sent from The Subterranean Workshop by Telepathy
 
  • Like
Reactions: DJeX and Shuki
says 2023 Certified Organ Donor
says 2023 Certified Organ Donor
Well-Known Member
Sep 2011
12,822
13,216
30,395
Read 27 reviews
UpSideDownCarl is in TROUBLE said:
...So the black tag Mazinovs must have been made later than my Mazinov blades. Hmmmm: what would those be worth. [emoji2] But they are not for sale.


Sent from The Subterranean Workshop by Telepathy

Uh-oh, you just uttered the voice detection protocol the Goon Squad has on Auto-Run on their voice/text intercept system.

I hope you Geo-Tagged that conversation with the same grid coordinates to the Brooklyn Bridge trap door...
 
This user has no status.
This user has no status.
Well-Known Member
Apr 2014
1,486
1,087
2,609
Read 3 reviews
Wood is wood. Different trees of the same kind will have slight differences. A cut of wood from the same tree, but from a slightly different part of the tree will be slightly different.

That is the essential detail.

You can have exceptionally good "black tag" blades, and exceptionally bad.

But people are so in awe of the little thing that not only do some of them buy for their collection, some even do not dare to call out a black tag blade´s playing characteristics as sub-standard.

The myth is so powerful that if you say a black tag blade is not good, you are the one who has no expertise.

"Guy1" I know has some Cresail made for the Romanian national team years ago. Even more rare than standard Cresail. He said it´s from an ex national team player. And he marvels at it.
"Guy2" I know can tell the difference between blades after playing a few ball. Interestingly, said ex player turned to this guy any time he needed advice on a blade ...

So Guy1 gives Guy2 his blade. Guy2 plays, returns it and says "Yeah, kind of a construction worker´s blade, no feeling at all". Immediately Guy1 starts to doubt Guy2´s expertise completelely, just because he didn´t like his holy grail Cresail. which, since I´ve tried it, is really nothing special and only made alive by boosting the rubbers so much you could put any wood between them ;)

Anyway, not every Japanese Primorac is better than every European. Same for Korbel.

Not every old blade is better than every new one, independently of model and origin.

I agree it does no harm if someone wants to buy a rare blade for a collection. Also, if you want to have and play it that´s ok.

Just don´t believe the hype that it will automatically a good blade.
 
says ok, I will go back and make sure you have access. Be...
says ok, I will go back and make sure you have access. Be...
Well-Known Member
Nov 2010
3,568
5,931
10,356
Read 8 reviews
I still think someone asking 700 pounds for a Viscaria should be brutally mocked.
 
  • Like
Reactions: UpSideDownCarl
Top