All things service

says Spin and more spin.
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How exactly can you hide the contact point with your HEAD?

Head hiding the ball is definitely possible. Most pros get pretty low with their whole torso when they serve. A lot of amateurs don’t but the pros usually do.

Here:

d967f8d894fa43d1dde53697d25ff08f.jpg


It is a composite photo of three moments during the serve toss. In the second image, the ball is definitely the same height as Ma Long’s Head. If the ball is also in line with Ma Long’s head, which is likely, then the ball is behind ML’s head for anyone receiving serve.

Given that the ball is falling and the trajectory in which these guys throw up and back, it is highly likely that this ball went behind ML’s head while it dropped.

In this service tutorial, you can see it from the side. But when they show it from the far side of the table, it is clear that the ball goes behind ML’s head almost every time he serves.


In the tutorial ML is much higher during serve than he is in the photo and than he would be in most match play.

Most of the top pros do something very similar. Not Samsonov. But most top pros.

And the ball passing behind the head itself is against the rules, but when these guys are lower, the head will Block the view of the contact. They all know how to do that whether they choose to or not.


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says Spin and more spin.
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Here:

d967f8d894fa43d1dde53697d25ff08f.jpg


It is a composite photo of three moments during the serve toss.

Also notice:

1) In the first photo the ball is in front of ML’s face.

2) In the second photo ML’s head is lower and further forward and the ball is lower and further back.

This means the trajectory of the toss is a little back away from the table.

3) In the third photo the ball is lower and closer to the table and so is ML’s head.

This means that the third photo is after contact and that contact happened, either:

a) While the ball was behind ML’s head
or
b) Just after the ball dropped under the height of ML’s head.

Also, it is worth noting that on many serves, ITTF start with a side view, and then during the toss switch to a front view so it is kind of hard to tell most of the time if the serve is legal or not.


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Its easy to enforce , if the ITTF decides to move one of the umpires behind the receiver based on whether its lefty or righty and or have more umpires , but in the second case they would need to pay for more umpires ... so they don't have time for these things , making money by illegally getting patents before equipment change and winning elections is more important to them ...
This is why I hate the rule of not allowing blocking of the contact. Hard to enforce and sometimes referees can go wrong.
 
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says Spin and more spin.
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... so they don't have time for these things , making money by illegally getting patents before equipment change and winning elections is more important to them ...

Hahaha. I wonder how many people realize that the original reason for the change to the plastic ball was a patent by Sharara & XSF on the seamless ball.

But the other companies went to court to be able to produce balls (seamed) that didn’t require them to pay patent fees to XSF and Sharara.

Good one Monster.


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Hahaha. I wonder how many people realize that the original reason for the change to the plastic ball was a patent by Sharara & XSF on the seamless ball.

Shame on them! Greedy dirty bastards. :mad:

Its easy to enforce , if the ITTF decides to move one of the umpires behind the receiver based on whether its lefty or righty and or have more umpires , but in the second case they would need to pay for more umpires ... so they don't have time for these things , making money by illegally getting patents before equipment change and winning elections is more important to them ...

If it costs money to enforce then it is not easy. I still think the rule should be omitted. I remember table tennis in the old days with players hiding their serves was still spectacular. All the top players were doing it so no one really took advantage of anyone.
But I agree that ITTF folks are nothing but bunch of thieves, dishonest bastards like soccer folks and ones in similar sports.
 
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My understanding though, is that the patent for a seamless ball was owned by the wife of an ITTF official, and not Sharara, but one of his close cronies. Also that the process in question was NOT the one that Xu Shao Fa came out with, and that the process patented by the ITTF guy resulted in a ball that was even more crappy than the ones we actually saw.

I am working from what might be a flawed memory here, though.

in addition, my understanding is that DHS and XSF were partners with Palio and some other people, and that the deal somehow broke down. If it hadn't, the first plastic balls we would have seen on the market would have been seamless balls that at least had a reasonable bounce height.

But when that broke down, DHS was forced to come out with a plastic ball in a hurry so they turned to cellulose acetate as the material, and basically used the same process they had used for celluloid. The resulting balls were terrible beyond my comprehension.

Nittaku began to develop the ABS seamed ball, and other companies including DHS followed suit, although I am worried that DHS may be in the process of taking a good ball that they had and changing it to a bad one.
 
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Does anyone have a good source for foot stomping when and why kind of thing? Also a resource that talked about the transition from service to ready position.


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People stomp their foot to hide the noise of the contact made on the ball. If you can hear the serve, you can be able to tell whether or not it has a lot of spin or no spin/weak spin. Servers stomp their foot to muzzle that noise, making it more difficult for the receiver to tell if it has spin and how much it has.
 
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General comment and questions regarding service and seeing different looks in a match.

I’m noticing the times when I have the most trouble with opponents service game is when they often showing several different looks. That of course includes variations of serves, and serves i have seen less often, less experience with, but more than that someone that shows different serves through out delivered from different locations at the table, and or with different mechanics ( backhand, reverse pendulum, punch etc etc). It seems even if the quality may be a bit less the different looks at times is enough for them to get a weak returns. Which is the point I suppose.

Now to my question. Would be interested to know how many different serves looks some of you play and how often to you show them generally. I’m sure my trouble with this is somewhat do to a lack of exposure to some service types etc, and it could be something that has a bit of a threshold to it (ie at some point or lel of play it would be reverent, etc but not sure). I myself play a few different types of serves from different locations depending on the the opponent etc. there have been a few occasions I have felt like I’m messing to much, but As long as I’m mindful more than not It seems to be a advantage.






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Probably a bit late to the party, but this video might help a lot to understand what makes a good serve.
I am too lazy to translate everything now, but maybe Der_Echte has some time? ;)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VUO1w2A3BwQ&t=54s

Some key points:
2:43 - placement of the first touch of a backspin serve
3:14 - adding a no spin serve with the same placement
8:30 - bodymotion when serving
8:42 - how to hold the blade and when to use the wrist
8:57 - topspin hook-serve with added backspin motion after impact
10:11 - backspin hook-serve with added topspin motion after impact
10:52 - same backspin hook-serve motion but placement to the forehand side
11:12 - pendulum serve with hook-serve starting motion (grip change!) to reverse pendulum ending
 
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Schlaftablette is Sleepy said:
I am too lazy to translate everything now, but maybe Der_Echte has some time? ;)

Some key points:
2:43 - placement of the first touch of a backspin serve
3:14 - adding a no spin serve with the same placement
8:30 - bodymotion when serving
8:42 - how to hold the blade and when to use the wrist
8:57 - topspin hook-serve with added backspin motion after impact
10:11 - backspin hook-serve with added topspin motion after impact
10:52 - same backspin hook-serve motion but placement to the forehand side
11:12 - pendulum serve with hook-serve starting motion (grip change!) to reverse pendulum ending

Your key points are a good summary. The volume is low, coach doesn't really tell the young TT athlete much of how to do stuff... he just says do this or do this, except at 6:30 and 8:50 where he explains a follow through motion... When whatever serve he wants done is exceptional, there is slow motion replay.
 
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Is the foot stomping thing really about the sound only?
I think it has something to do with balance.
 
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Some people stomp with the foot so that the other player can't hear the sound which the rubber produces when connecting with the ball. Therefore the opponent can't tell by the sound what kind of spin is produced.
Other people stomp with the foot to disguise the connection time of the ball with the rubber. Especially usefull when serving a double motion serve.
For example: first motion of the serve is backspin and the second motion is topspin. You hit the ball during the first motion but stomp when executing the second motion to fake the connection time as a topspin serve.
Hopefully my explaination is understandable. :)
 
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... and other people stomp to regain balance. Or because they've picked it up as kids while watching other players, and never took the time to unlearn something so trivial. On some serves it's natural not to stomp, yet on others it's not. Go with the flow? Inventing and improving new serves is tough enough as is.

Like many other shots, the serve is quite 'explosive' (lots of acceleration over a small period of time) and it will almost always show in some funny way, stomping or not.
 
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