In or Out?

Dimas ball was out. He hit the the ball outside the table n it went down

TT_Rogue said:

this was out and ovtcharovs ball from today was in

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No. Dima's was out also.

Tinykin said:

Having a look again on my big screen, I now realise that the camera's point of view is from a really high angle, so the trajectory of the ball compared to the table is not clear. The only person that had a good view, other than the players, was the umpire. His decision was immediate which means that he was pretty sure about what happened.

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Actually it was not immediate and the umpire that changes the score clearly has his doubts, both of the umpires didnt have immediate reaction like in a real point. And even at that angle you can clearly see that the ball trajectory is downwards

Anyway LJK won, but the point should be at least replayed, which means rules MUST change (definitely a debatable point, the indications show it was out but no one from us can be 100 % sure) to be fair and square.

TT_Rogue said:

this was out and ovtcharovs ball from today was in

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ovtcharov's shot was out, his shot was about a couple inches from the side. the prior point at 9-9 ended rather badly for him and he looked pissed. at 10-9 he was more than happy to grab the 'advantage'. he's normally quite sportsmanlike so his reaction after the point and flinging the bat was odd.

TTfrenzy, look at the video again. Look at the umpire only. He's the one on your right facing the screen. The one with the scoreboard is the assistant umpire.
Keep your eye on the umpire, when LJK hits the ball onto the table, the umpire immediately points to the table indicating an edge ball and calls the score orally, he then raises his hand to indicate the player that won the point.
I say again, the umpire's reaction was immediate.

There has to be another video with a different angle on that shot. But with the angle we have it looks like its out. umpires really should have access to slow motion cameras or something...

Tinykin said:

TTfrenzy, look at the video again. Look at the umpire only. He's the one on your right facing the screen. The one with the scoreboard is the assistant umpire.
Keep your eye on the umpire, when LJK hits the ball onto the table, the umpire immediately points to the table indicating an edge ball and calls the score orally, he then raises his hand to indicate the player that won the point.
I say again, the umpire's reaction was immediate.

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Yes indeed that is what happens (still it takes 1-2 seconds for the umpire to raise his hand immediately I dont consider that as an immediate reaction I dont know if my eyes fool me but I see some slight hesitation in body language...I know im probably going to scientific with this but a reflex reaction is immediate 0.15 to 0.4 seconds, 1-2 seconds is just too much to consider it immediate), but the other umpire has his doubts he still hesitates to change the score. I personally dont accuse anyone of this weird situation, who knows what LJK the umpire and kenta had in mind. My "objection" is that the game definitely needs a new rule like in tennis with video review.

Here some insight from bobrow on facebook . To clarify no one can actually know 100% if it iwas in or out, unless we have slow mo footage from a side camera

Ah crap you need to DL the image to see with better zoom. Im pasting adam's words anyway

The umpire later saw the video and apparently couldn't sleep. He realized he had made the wrong call. It is human to err and the umpire made an honest mistake. I spoke to the referee and what the umpire "sees" falls into a category called "matter of fact" which the referee cannot question or overrule. So, as difficult as it was for the referee not to say something, he knows where the line is drawn in terms of his role. There is no punishment necessary for the umpire. If it were consistent that one umpire missed many calls, I assume they would not be given as many opportunities to umpire. ITTF is always looking to reduce errors and the conversation about video replay and challenge system is definitely happening but not as simple as we might wish to implement. The good news is, things are moving in the right direction... upwards.