Long serves to FZD

parkash.imangry · Feb 27, 2017

Did anyone else noted that percentages of long /half long serves to FZD from his Chinese teammates (Fang No and Ma Long) were unusually high in Qatar open. A chink in the Fan's armor?

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CroneOne · Feb 27, 2017

Guarantee they all know eachothers weak spots and will use the knowledge in major tournaments. When my bh sucked beans people at the club would all whisper (especially doubles) then I'd get a barrage of shots to my bh. Argg.

drunix80 · Feb 27, 2017

Couple of weaknesses that surely troubled FZD - Long serves and short game. Fang bo amd Ma long both did the same. Ma Long being the captain did it better.

Ilia Minkin · Feb 27, 2017

Fang Bo has a terrific long reverse serve, I like it a lot. He served it often in Superleague, but in this particular match it was just crazy how often he used it.

laistrogian · Feb 28, 2017

In a real match sometimes it works to just constantly serve the particular serve that your opponent can't return, especially against people who are not typically calm.

If they manage to return it with quality ball pretty regularly, switch to something else

teddie · Feb 28, 2017

Guys, this is common strategy against those flick-all-serves players (like ZJK, FZD). By serving long serves you make them stay and wait if it's a long or short serve, this means they can't go for short ball early, they have to wait and check.. And cost for this waiting is that you can't flick at the highest point of the bounce, you can just make slower flick later which is good for server, because he can then counter-attack it easily.

suds79 · Feb 28, 2017

I was listening to a podcast interview from Expert Table Tennis where Ben was interviewing former pro Dan Seemiller and Dan predicted that at some point in the future that the long serve will come back into play.

I'm paraphrasing here but I think he said with these players all working & developing their over the table backhand flick, and nobody does it better than FZD, the ideal approach of serving short to make it hard for them to attack no longer holds true. They can attack it all the same.

So you might as well take that away from those players and serve long. They will most likely loop but then you counter and you're into the rally. Really no different if you were to serve short & they flip.

tropical · Feb 28, 2017

I like such strategy! I have met a player who can flip anything. He didn't have such good flipping couple years ago when I used to beat him. Such serve will slow down his game for fraction of a second so a forehand drive to follow will be more effective.

SchemeSC · Feb 28, 2017

suds79 said:
I was listening to a podcast interview from Expert Table Tennis where Ben was interviewing former pro Dan Seemiller and Dan predicted that at some point in the future that the long serve will come back into play.

I'm paraphrasing here but I think he said with these players all working & developing their over the table backhand flick, and nobody does it better than FZD, the ideal approach of serving short to make it hard for them to attack no longer holds true. They can attack it all the same.

So you might as well take that away from those players and serve long. They will most likely loop but then you counter and you're into the rally. Really no different if you were to serve short & they flip.

I basically said the exact same thing on MYTT a couple years back. I took a decent bit of flack for it, too.

NextLevel · Feb 28, 2017

SchemeSC said:
I basically said the exact same thing on MYTT a couple years back. I took a decent bit of flack for it, too.

The simplest way to respond to Danny is that the long serve has always been in play. The short push is also still extremely effective, it is the short sidespin serve that is an endangered species.

SchemeSC · Feb 28, 2017

NextLevel said:
The simplest way to respond to Danny is that the long serve has always been in play. The short push is also still extremely effective, it is the short sidespin serve that is an endangered species.

I agree with you that the long serve has always been in play. But my interpretation of what Danny is saying is that we are going to start seeing a much higher percentage of long,fast serves versus short serves in the future. Let's say that the current ratio is 85/15 in favor of short serves. We might be seeing a move closer towards 60/40 or even 50/50 in the future.

gmiller2233 · Feb 28, 2017

suds79 said:
I was listening to a podcast interview from Expert Table Tennis where Ben was interviewing former pro Dan Seemiller and Dan predicted that at some point in the future that the long serve will come back into play.

I'm paraphrasing here but I think he said with these players all working & developing their over the table backhand flick, and nobody does it better than FZD, the ideal approach of serving short to make it hard for them to attack no longer holds true. They can attack it all the same.

So you might as well take that away from those players and serve long. They will most likely loop but then you counter and you're into the rally. Really no different if you were to serve short & they flip.

I was thinking about quoting the same thing when I saw your reply. Long serve as a particular interesting strategy especially for a blocker like seamiller.

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SchemeSC · Feb 28, 2017

In order for the Europeans to ever have a chance at defeating the Chinese, they would need a player that has the following characteristics:

1) An incredible athlete with size and power.

2) a world class long, fast server whose long serves are virtually indistinguable from his short serves.

There is not a single player in Europe that has both of these characteristics. A guy like Ovtcharov fits the bill for #1, but he does not have the correct approach to serving to ever beat the Chinese consistently, IMO.

tropical · Feb 28, 2017

IIRC Liu Guoliang used to serve long most (~90%) of the time?

NextLevel · Feb 28, 2017

tropical said:
IIRC Liu Guoliang used to serve long most (~90%) of the time?

He was an SP hitter and the serving tactics are different, but that said, short serving was typically a way for the loopers to get balls to loop, but the techniques for aggressive countering and blocking are so much better today that serving short is really just one more strategy for winning points.

SchemeSC · Feb 28, 2017

suds79 said:
I was listening to a podcast interview from Expert Table Tennis where Ben was interviewing former pro Dan Seemiller and Dan predicted that at some point in the future that the long serve will come back into play.

I'm paraphrasing here but I think he said with these players all working & developing their over the table backhand flick, and nobody does it better than FZD, the ideal approach of serving short to make it hard for them to attack no longer holds true. They can attack it all the same.

So you might as well take that away from those players and serve long. They will most likely loop but then you counter and you're into the rally. Really no different if you were to serve short & they flip.

37:00 - 39:02 is where he talks about this, BTW.

Long serves to FZD

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