Xu Xin's Backhand

Vector Operator · Mar 4, 2017

Question? Does anyone else think this way? World class coach Wu Jingping makes Xu Xin play his backhand more traditional. (blocks & pushes) No creativity, no chaquita, no rpb twist, no loops. Xu Xin can effectively attack with his backhand but they stop him. I think he needs play loose & free. When he is creative he wins with less stress! They've cramped his style before. It doesn't work!

suds79 · Mar 5, 2017

I've seen XX do the over the table loop on serve, off the table loop, backahand block etc. I don't think it's that he's never been taught or doesn't know how to do these things.

He simply, compared to his CNT member counterparts, is far more inconsistent IMO. It just seems to me he routinely misses a much higher % of backhands others don't. Maybe it's a technique thing. Maybe it's just something about him. But at this point in his career, he is what he is. It's just not a strength of his.

His style of play seems very much like a traditional penholder stepping around a lot and playing that amazing FH. Penholders in today's game I think need to play more balanced to survive.

Garrison · Mar 5, 2017

The new ball hurt XXs play with spin so he is trying to adjust

Tinykin · Mar 5, 2017

suds79 said:
...........
His style of play seems very much like a traditional penholder stepping around a lot and playing that amazing FH. Penholders in today's game I think need to play more balanced to survive.

Funny, I think of him as a modern Euro style rather than traditional Chinese ph. The older PH tended to keep closer to the table in order to play a driver/hitter game. XX tends to a stand back and use big spinny loops Euro style. Yes he does step around a lot but who doesn't except for very top CNT. Don't forget that this tendency to very strong BH and FH is very new I would say, only in the last 5-10 years or so. We always had players with strong BH and FH but they had a big tendency to one side. FZD and ML are the first that I can remember that are so balanced BH or FH.
This is only an opinion though and I may be looking at this in the wrong way.

songdavid98 · Mar 6, 2017

suds79 said:
I've seen XX do the over the table loop on serve, off the table loop, backahand block etc. I don't think it's that he's never been taught or doesn't know how to do these things.

He simply, compared to his CNT member counterparts, is far more inconsistent IMO. It just seems to me he routinely misses a much higher % of backhands others don't. Maybe it's a technique thing. Maybe it's just something about him. But at this point in his career, he is what he is. It's just not a strength of his.

His style of play seems very much like a traditional penholder stepping around a lot and playing that amazing FH. Penholders in today's game I think need to play more balanced to survive.

I used to think the same thing about Xu Xin's forehand flip. But something doesn't make sense if you think about it.
It's quite impossible for a world class player to be bad at something fundamental.

What you guys see of Xu Xin is just videos of him against other world class players.
Xu Xin probably already has a pretty good backhand, it's just not consistently on a world class level. If he plays against lower skilled players, his backhand does way better. Same with his forehand flip.

UpSideDownCarl · Mar 6, 2017

If I remember correctly, the issue for Xu Xin is the length of his fingers. They simply are too long and get in the way when he tries RPB. He can do it. But he has a smaller hitting area than most because of the length of his fingers. I could be wrong. But I think I remember hearing about that.

songdavid98 · Mar 6, 2017

[video]https://www.tabletennisdaily.co.uk/videos/308-China-Trials-For-WTTC-2017/3409-ma-long-vs-xu-xin-marvellous-12/[/video]

It looks like Xu Xin's backhand and forehand flip were pretty good this game.

suds79 · Mar 6, 2017

songdavid98 said:
I used to think the same thing about Xu Xin's forehand flip. But something doesn't make sense if you think about it.
It's quite impossible for a world class player to be bad at something fundamental.

What you guys see of Xu Xin is just videos of him against other world class players.
Xu Xin probably already has a pretty good backhand, it's just not consistently on a world class level. If he plays against lower skilled players, his backhand does way better. Same with his forehand flip.

I agree. That's why when I say that, I always put the qualifier "compared to his CNT members" because yes his backhand is probably really good.

But compared to the big names on the CNT, he's significantly behind IMO when comparing backhands.

SFF_lib · Mar 8, 2017

Vector Operator said:
Question? Does anyone else think this way? World class coach Wu Jingping makes Xu Xin play his backhand more traditional. (blocks & pushes) No creativity, no chaquita, no rpb twist, no loops. Xu Xin can effectively attack with his backhand but they stop him. I think he needs play loose & free. When he is creative he wins with less stress! They've cramped his style before. It doesn't work!

During some matches i heard Chinese commentator said XX is in an awkward position:
His RPB is not as powerful as Wang Hao's
His FH BH switch is not as quick as Wang Hao
His serve, short game and service return is not as fine as Ma Lin
His 3rd ball attack is not as good or powerful as Ma Lin

Therefore XX doesn't master the advantages of penhold grip (e.g. serve, return, short game etc), yet two wing loop is not comparable to shakehand grip.

drunix80 · Mar 8, 2017

If only table tennis was played with forehands, XX would have been slam winner.

SFF_lib · Mar 8, 2017

drunix80 said:
If only table tennis was played with forehands, XX would have been slam winner.

Interestingly that's how Deng Yaping was trained when she was young. Her dad peeled off her BH rubber. Therefore she could only use her FH. It was a footwork training.

Ofc XX has crazy footwork to allow his FH to shine

Vector Operator · Mar 8, 2017

So true!

James Livesey · Mar 8, 2017

Xu Xin is wholly unique. And I think that is largely due to his physique. Whereas he does not have as developed a PH specific game as MLin and WH, he just does stuff that few others do: reaching balls, fast footwork, pivot/step around FH, ridiculous side-spin on loops, lobbing. I mostly study MLin and WH for PH specific technique, but anyone can learn tons from XX.

Aizen · Mar 8, 2017

his backend spins are quite good in my opinion, maybe he could not power shots like FZD, JZK who are from team shake hand. I think still competitive among world class.

songdavid98 · Mar 10, 2017

Vector Operator said:
Xu Xin's Old School Backhand Loops & Blocks & RPB!
ᕕ( ᐛ )ᕗ Xu Xin Vs Li Yang : U17 [Chinese 2006]

@1:23 @1:33 @1:47 @1:57 @2:25 @2:52 @3:07 @3:20 @3:49 *@4:06* @4:23 @4:29 @4:46 @5:00 @5:04 @5:27@5:44 @6:42 @6:59 @7:04 @7:20

WHAT ARE THESE BACKHANDS????

Xu Xin in 2006. There's a lot less footwork and way more backhands. I would say his backhand is pretty consistent in this video.

EDIT: I notice a lot of traditional penhold backhand shots in this video. I wonder if his decision to play a more forehand oriented style literally meant he got to practice/play his backhand less, and therefore caused his backhand to slowly deteriorate.

Vector Operator · Mar 11, 2017

songdavid98 said:
WHAT ARE THESE BACKHANDS????

Xu Xin in 2006. There's a lot less footwork and way more backhands. I would say his backhand is pretty consistent in this video.

EDIT: I notice a lot of traditional penhold backhand shots in this video. I wonder if his decision to play a more forehand oriented style literally meant he got to practice/play his backhand less, and therefore caused his backhand to slowly deteriorate.

Yes! I think the coaching staff created what we see now. H obviously has backhand skills!.¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Vector Operator · Mar 11, 2017

UpSideDownCarl said:
If I remember correctly, the issue for Xu Xin is the length of his fingers. They simply are too long and get in the way when he tries RPB. He can do it. But he has a smaller hitting area than most because of the length of his fingers. I could be wrong. But I think I remember hearing about that.

According to a Chinese youtube documentary he has a custom built oversized penhold blade.

fais · Mar 17, 2017

That year (2013?) when XX was #1 in the ITTF rating, ahead of ML, his back hand was on point. It's the fact that his backhand is not up to par has cost him. My bball coach used to say you are only as strong as your weakest point.

I dislike that his coaches did not emphasize his rpb backhand training.

SFF_lib · Mar 17, 2017

fais said:
That year (2013?) when XX was #1 in the ITTF rating, ahead of ML, his back hand was on point. It's the fact that his backhand is not up to par has cost him. My bball coach used to say you are only as strong as your weakest point.

I dislike that his coaches did not emphasize his rpb backhand training.

Is it because he changed to H3 for his backhand? I vaguely remember XX used a non-tacky rubber for his backhand before using H3.

James Livesey · Mar 17, 2017

SFF_lib said:
Is it because he changed to H3 for his backhand? I vaguely remember XX used a non-tacky rubber for his backhand before using H3.

He's the first person I know of to use a tacky rubber for RPB BH, but I imagine it's better for over the table flicks. He's basically using a custom H3-50 (H3 topsheet on soft porous sponge). slower than a tensor especially for bh, but i've noticed that he does a lot of reverse side serves. The tackiness sure helps with that.

Xu Xin's Backhand

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