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    1. Top | #21
      genrel001 is offline
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      Reverse Penhold Backhand.
      Don't forget footwork.

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    3. Top | #22
      tropical is offline
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      I see. RPB is tough to master. I have seen an old folk (used to be 2100 player) tried to learn this technique for almost 3 years without being able to do it in real game. On the other hand a much younger guy with same amount of time was able to execute it anytime he likes. But this young guy has professional training, though.

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    5. Top | #23
      genrel001 is offline
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      I don't know but as I've observed RPB are easily learned by younger players or player who hasn't accustomed yet in playing TPB. Older players who already have TPB implanted in their muscle memory find it hard to convert or even adapt to RPB.

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    7. Top | #24
      suds79 is offline
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      My brother, who is 9 years older than me, tried it once and said he hurt his elbow. So he's never tried since.

      I learned it probably when I was about 32 or so. So that's not exactly young for learning something new. So I wouldn't let age get in the way.

      I think it's just like anything when learning a stroke. After you've done the research on the technique, start the muscle memory by just blocking with it vs topspin against your training partner or robot. Once you have that down, then you slowly step slightly away from the table and then go from blocking to slight counter driving. Then on & on until you're looping.

      This might be a tired comparison but it really does for me feel like the same thing. If you can throw a frisbee backhanded, you can hit one heck of a spiny RPB.

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    9. Top | #25
      tropical is offline
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      The young guy (compared to me) I mentioned he was about 30's as well. He spent countless hours to learn the technique, at least 50X more than the old 2100 and 65 y/o player. Yes, dedication is much needed here and more important than age. But when we are old we are not trying as hard as we used to.

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    11. Top | #26
      James Livesey is offline
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      I learned it faster than fh. I used to play ultimate frisbee a lot so rpb is almost identical to a BH throw. I've been experimenting a lot with rpb serves. Right foot forward, from centre right. You can do backspin with sidespin to right or left or straight, and then you can outright rpb loop it for an ultra fast serve. I also find it quite easy to swipe under the ball feinting the back-sidespin and then quickly coming up for the rpb topspin serve. What are your reverse side service techniques. Ultimately, I've only seen Xu xin and Wang hao do reverse side serves at the pro level, but they do it strictly as a mix-up for their 'hook' serve, a service I desperately need to master.

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    13. Top | #27
      OldschoolPenholder is offline
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      When and if i ever play the modern PH game with 2 inverted, i probably would only do a RPB loop. Anything else i would use a TPB.

      Haven't even thought of serves yet LOL
      New mantra: I should rather return one more ball and maybe get killed than kill myself and not make the shot.

      --------------------------------------
      https://vimeo.com/user56649342
      https://www.youtube.com/channel/UClR...u057SJTKL4O9Og

    14. Top | #28
      James Livesey is offline
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      Well I think I will definitely stick to ox because I almost exclusively use my rpb as my offensive option. I generally slow the ball then kill the ball or spin the ball so I can send a nasty chop back. What are the specs on the galaxy? Plies, thickness, weight, softness, flex. I'm loving my off- all ayous five ply. It got some flex so excellent for rpb but is stiff enough for decent blocking. I think it's generally a good idea to keep the entire setup under 170 grand for rpb. Anything greater gives me strain issues. Hence, with a regular setup, I use an 80g blade. With a super light ox rubber, you can definitely afford 85-90 grams + heavy rubber + ox.

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    16. Top | #29
      genrel001 is offline
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      I just added 2.0mm 729 HRS sponge underneath my Viper Soft, I don't know if it's over 4mm though, haven't measured it. I replaced the factory sponge because the topsheet is peeling off already just after 1 week of playing and air bubbles starts to appear everywhere. Also I found out that Dr. N. uses glue sheet to glue the topsheet to the sponge instead of the usual contact/rubber cement commonly used in Chinese pips. Removing the topsheet is also a hell of challenge because the glue from the glue sheet sticks to the topsheet rather than the sponge.

      Anyway, now my set is faster on passive plays and better control. It also provided that extra zip when flat hitting. It's pretty much what I needed since I'm using an ALL blade. Also my loops have more spin than usual, make my opponents confuse during rallies. It's pretty cool.
      Last edited by genrel001; 04-22-2017 at 02:23 AM.

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    18. Top | #30
      suds79 is offline
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      Holy thread revival batman!

      Because I love this style and I think there are a few others out there who do to, I thought "how can we have this thread talking LP penhold technique and not have Jian Jiang Huang, or more accurately 黄建疆, in it? To me he is the gold standard for LP penhold play and the one I would like to most closely emulate. I just like his brand of play.

      He plays short pips/Long pips. Although if you're an inverted/long pips person you could still play exactly the same way.

      Video 1:
      I believe this is the first video in this series. I know the total time is about a hour long but this is broken up. This video clip is 7 mins long.



      This video starts out with a lot of talking and if you're like me and can't understand it, go ahead and skip to the first point at 3:45.

      That's actually a nice one to point out. I can't tell you how many times I've played this point. Show heavy backspin, do not try to hide your serve. The goal is to encourage (or force if it's spiny & low) them to push. Twiddle to your long pips and swipe attack to wherever the open court is. The result is a weird topspin ball that can catch people for surprise.

      That's all well in good but sooner or later your opponents start to expect that topspin ball & smoke it. Here's where it's nice to have this shot he does in that point at 3:45. He pushes that backspin ball with his LPs!! I can't tell you how hard this is to do without popping it up high. Note is opponent pops up the ball where he's waiting with the SP attack. If people think they can push that ball because they see you push, they're sorely mistaken. The ball you're sending to them is deadish. It's a nice change-up and good to have in your bag of tricks.

      If people are feeling Jian's teachings, I might post more in here.
      Last edited by suds79; 04-26-2017 at 01:23 PM.

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    20. Top | #31
      genrel001 is offline
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      I'm back!!! I've been away for a week due to work travels. Man, it's good to be back. I've only just played table tennis yesterday right after I came back from the trip, and I'm pumped up once again.

      While I'm away I wrote down some strategy note (because the seminar is boring as hell). Feel free to comment on it!

      Tactics against Loopers

      Style: LP-Hitter RPB-Counter-driver (no twiddle)
      FH: LP
      BH: INV

      Service:
      1. Serve long chop with INV or LP rubber (go-to-serve), most preferably to the BH side of opponent
      2. Do occasional fast topspin serve (one per set)
      3. Do long flat LP serve (one per set)

      * Always serve to kill (prioritize 3rd ball attack)
      * Avoid service that will promote rallies (avoid rallies at all cost)

      Return:
      1. Short Chop to BH side (opponent's service)- return with LP short lift or RPB flick to opponent's weak side.
      2. Long Chop to BH side (opponent's service)- return with LP short block to BH side or LP long push (if opponent is out of position)
      3. Short Chop to FH side (opponent's service)- return with LP short lift or LP hit/push (depends on the height of he serve)
      4. Long Chop to FH side (opponent's service)- return with LP HIT! or LP long push to opponent's weak side. If caught off-guard, do LP short block to BH side.
      5. Side Spin (opponent's service)- return with LP short push, prepare to HIT! based on the direction of the side spin.
      6. Topspin/Fast ball- return with LP short push or block or if height is forgivable HIT with LP.

      *Returns should be in preparation for 4th ball attack
      *Return with HIT! attack whenever possible

      Rallies:
      1. Avoid rallies at all cost.
      2. When caught on rally, do counter-drive (topspin) and flat HIT! strokes alternately.
      3. When rally was initiated in the RPB side, block with LP (TPB) then surprise with RPB. or vice versa.


      **HIT can either be swipe attack or flat down hit attack.

      My ideas where just based on my encounter with loopers. I hope this may add some info to the style.

      BTW. I replaced my Balsa blade with a carbon-hinoki blade. I find the my old balsa lacking some power on passive shots but uncontrollable on aggressive hits. I like the linearity of the carbon-hinoki but it lacks the feel of an allwood blade. I'm looking to buy a new one. I'm thinking of DHS Dipper 9 and Yasaka Silver 9. I think 9 ply blades has the same power as carbon blades but with better feel.
      Last edited by genrel001; 05-02-2017 at 02:10 AM.

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    22. Top | #32
      genrel001 is offline
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      Quote Originally Posted by suds79 View Post

      He pushes that backspin ball with his LPs!! I can't tell you how hard this is to do without popping it up high. Note is opponent pops up the ball where he's waiting with the SP attack. If people think they can push that ball because they see you push, they're sorely mistaken. The ball you're sending to them is deadish. It's a nice change-up and good to have in your bag of tricks.

      If people are feeling Jian's teachings, I might post more in here.
      Pushing backspins with LP is not easy but with right angle and timing it's not that hard also. In my experience, the key is to punch the ball when pushing long and to lift the ball if going for short balls.

      My clubmates also told me that they usually get confused with my pushes and also with my dummy loops. But they're getting used to my style now. My rival in our club is a SP BH player, I hate his SP. He's a chopper/blocker style. I have to adjust my game and be patient when playing with him.
      Last edited by genrel001; 05-02-2017 at 05:22 AM.

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    24. Top | #33
      genrel001 is offline
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      BTW this is the photo of my Dr. Neubauer Viper Soft after removing it from its sponge

      Click image for larger version. 

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    26. Top | #34
      suds79 is offline
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      Oh that looks like that didn't go well. yeah those thin OX LP sheets will do that.

      That's why when I play OX, I really prefer Xiying 979. That base sheet is so thick, I've glued it on my bat with rubber cement. No joke. Just one layer on the blade, nothing on the rubber & stick it on. It won't shrivel up.

      That being said, if you like to occasionally attack with LPs, I prefer sponged LPs by a mile.
      Last edited by suds79; 05-02-2017 at 04:50 PM.

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    28. Top | #35
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      LOL -- i thought it was me with the LP OX shriveling up

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    30. Top | #36
      genrel001 is offline
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      Yeah. I soaked it in boiling water to remove the glue then straighten up the top sheet and stick it on top of 2.0mm soft chinese sponge. The control is better and the ball is faster. I only used water based glue to stick the top sheet to the sponge, I think using rubber/contact cement will melt the thin base sheet of my top sheet.

      After changing blade from my ALL speed balsa to an OFF carbon blade, I can't return the ball short anymore which I find hard to set up for 4th ball attack. But, the upside is that my hits are way "deadlier" than before. I just need to rethink my strategy in order to set up a 4th ball attack.

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    32. Top | #37
      James Livesey is offline
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      Quote Originally Posted by genrel001 View Post
      I just added 2.0mm 729 HRS sponge underneath my Viper Soft, I don't know if it's over 4mm though, haven't measured it. I replaced the factory sponge because the topsheet is peeling off already just after 1 week of playing and air bubbles starts to appear everywhere. Also I found out that Dr. N. uses glue sheet to glue the topsheet to the sponge instead of the usual contact/rubber cement commonly used in Chinese pips. Removing the topsheet is also a hell of challenge because the glue from the glue sheet sticks to the topsheet rather than the sponge.

      Anyway, now my set is faster on passive plays and better control. It also provided that extra zip when flat hitting. It's pretty much what I needed since I'm using an ALL blade. Also my loops have more spin than usual, make my opponents confuse during rallies. It's pretty cool.
      Given that ox rubbers are 2.00 max, and your sponge is 2.0, i don't see how you could be over.

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    34. Top | #38
      James Livesey is offline
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      In other news, I'm back to my rpb loop style now i have the rubbers. I think I like both styles equally, but generally have better results with the LP. The only real problem I have with them, is that nobody wants to play me, and training is tricky . It's going to be amazing for next season though, when they have to play me.

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    36. Top | #39
      genrel001 is offline
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      Robopong is a good training partner, at least for me. Doing a FH drill with a clubmate is really annoying, after 3-4 hits my partner will defenitely hit the net. We can't even make 10 consecutive hits.

      As for training approach, I really believe random is the way to go. I've seen players who are so good at drills but sucks at the real game. I play random mode with robopong sometimes. But most of the time I play several sets with a clubmate. We even have this race to 11 game. It's my substitute for jogging to develop my stamina.

      This LP style suites me well, I can't play inverted in my FH it always go over the table. Idk, somehow I just can't seem to close my racket when playing inverted.

      Anyway, goodluck to us and good night for now.

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    38. Top | #40
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      Nice watch:

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