Slow down a blade or speed up the rubbers?

several choices actually. either you use a thinner rubber and check if you can control it now or yes move down on the blade speed to maybe off- or off and not off+

Maybe not relevant, but the kind of advice I was given is to get a pretty slow, good control and spin blade as a beginner, with some slow rubber on it, and then upgrade the rubber to something more modern and faster as time goes on.

the best option is: get a blade with a good control and consistency, then you can start with low/mid speed, because why you need speed if you can't hit the ball precisely? once you got the most comfortable shot, go to faster rubber.

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I'd maybe play a Off- blade and then use medium rubbers and later change to faster rubbers. That way you can keep your blade and just change the rubbers later if you need more speed. If you play with an All blade, you will probably have to change it later if you advance. I can adapt to new rubbers easier than to a new blade.

I'm still relatively new, and suffered from the typical "I need a fast blade" mentality when I started, with medium to medium/hard sponge rubber. Recently I got rubbers with softer sponge and 1.9/2 thickness, and between that and some coaching it's made a huge difference. The rubber I'm using now is Donic Bluefire JP 03.

Well it also depends on your play style. For some people harder rubber/blade is better, for example blockers. You can't play that style that well with softer gear. But for the general topspin player = yes, softer is easier since it allows you to play a stroke even when not standing perfectly for the next ball.

The general principle, IF you are TRYING to IMPROVE your TECHNIQUE is that you start with a slower blade with good control, dwell time, flex and feeling, so that you can learn to hold the ball on the rubber for longer to develop the contact and touch for higher level spin.

As you improve, you increase the speed/spin of the RUBBER first. Then when you are comfortable and solid with top of the line rubbers like MXP or T05, you could upgrade the blade.

Starting with a blade like:

1) Stiga Allround Evolution
2) Yasaka Sweden Extra

Or even one class down:

1) Stiga Allround Classic
2) Donic Appelgren Allplay

Is actually something that WILL HELP your technique improve faster. Part of this is that:
1) the ball will go on the table much more consistently.
2) you will have to put more power into your stroke and have better technique for the power shots.
3) the flex, control, extra dwell time and added feeling help you learn how to make contact that gives you more spin.

I want to explain this concept. A faster carbon blade does a lot of the work for you. So you can do a lot wrong and make bad contact and it feels good and the ball goes fast as if you did everything RIGHT, even though YOU DIDN'T. This actually encourages your brain and your nervous system NOT TO CHANGE suboptimal technique.

A relatively slow (All, All+ or Off- at most), all wood, 5 ply, blade with decent flex, feel and dwell time, with a soft top ply like Limba, helps your technique improve in many ways:

1) you have to work harder to get good pace which forces you to use your legs and hips with your stroke more without you even realizing it.
2) when your contact is not quite what I ought to be, the shot will feel bad and your brain and nervous system will register this without you even realizing it.
3) when the contact is good, IT WILL FEEL GOOD. When what you do is technically sound, you will feel it. You will like it. And your brain and nervous system will register this and how you touch the ball on contact WILL IMPROVE without you even realizing it. THIS ADJUSTMENT AND IMPROVEMENT HAPPENS ON A SUBCONSCIOUS LEVEL. It will happen without you having to try to improve that subtle way in which you get the topsheet to grab the ball and the manner in which you let the ball sink into the topsheet and sponge without banging into the wood. With a fast carbon blade, this subtle precision can take months or even years longer. Because the carbon masks what you feel, makes everything feel good. And causes suboptimal technique to result in adequate shot production.

For someone who wants to play and have fun and let the equipment do the work and not learn to improve his/her technique faster, it doesn't matter. Go for the ZJK Super Duper ZLC and show your friends how you have the fastest, most expensive blade money can buy.

If you want your technique to improve, get something simple.

For a lot of beginners I would recommend a blade like the Stiga Allround Evolution paired with an older generation tensor type rubber like Vega Pro or Vega Europe. I think the Nexy Karis would probably be good here and so would Tibhar Aurus.

I feel like it is worth developing technique with the new style rubbers for many. But a classic rubber like Yasaka Mark V would also be a good rubber to start with. And for a player more control issues or, a player who is starting from a larger ground zero, like if hand-eye coordination starts off as a little more of an issue, then something like Mark V is a better rubber to start with. Butterfly Sriver is also decent. For some the Sriver rubber may have more control. But I love the spin of Mark V.

Anyway, whichever rubber is the starting point, the rubber can be progressed until you hit top of the line rubbers. And then, if the player wants to, they can upgrade blade.

However, I know this guy who uses a Stiga Allround Classic which is slow as a turtle. And he still is 2200-2300 and he has so much power he can blast the ball past 2500 players. If his handling of spin was as good as his strokes he would be 2500. Part of why he has so much power is that he is also a pro tennis player. So his stroke production is pretty amazing. But the point of the story is, with good technique, even a blade like an Allround Classic can produce rocket shots.


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For the original question, I have preferred faster or mid powered blades with slow rubbers to slow blades and fast rubbers. I think that rubbers are more critical for slowing the ball down than blades if you play a spin-oriented game.

NextLevel said:

For the original question, I have preferred faster or mid powered blades with slow rubbers to slow blades and fast rubbers. I think that rubbers are more critical for slowing the ball down than blades if you play a spin-oriented game.

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Your circumstances are kind of unique. Your technique is highly developed and you were adjusting equipment to try and problem solve around the issue of power in your shots without compromising the health of your shoulder and knees. For a player of your level, who has adjusted equipment in many ways to try and balance over the table skills with power on kill shots, so you can end points as fast as you can. For you this makes sense. For many decent level players this would be a useful way of tweaking equipment choices.

But you were not shooting mid-distance shots long because of the equipment. The high end rubbers like T05 were affecting your over the table play.

Worth slowing everything down when you shoot long on mid-distance loops.


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UpSideDownCarl said:

Your circumstances are kind of unique. Your technique is highly developed and you were adjusting equipment to try and problem solve around the issue of power in your shots without compromising the health of your shoulder and knees. For a player of your level, who has adjusted equipment in many ways to try and balance over the table skills with power on kill shots, so you can end points as fast as you can. For you this makes sense. For many decent level players this would be a useful way of tweaking equipment choices.

But you were not shooting mid-distance shots long because of the equipment. The high end rubbers like T05 were affecting your over the table play.

Worth slowing everything down when you shoot long on mid-distance loops.


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They are not as unique as you might think though you may be right that my considerations are more in tune with a certain level of play. Think of why the CNT use Chinese rubber on the forehand. Even when I have used Yasaka Extra and T80 for example, if I was healthy, I would prefer IF-ALC with Baracuda or Big Dipper or Mark V on a fast blade.

To answer simple, there is no slow rubber anymore so you counter that with an ALL 5 ply blade. Everything on the market comes with swiss cheese sponge to support the demand in speed in modern games. Manufacturing change in process to. For example don't expect one day Butterfly or Tibhar to say "Hey guys we are back, we introduced the new series rubber with the old solid sponge that was easier to boost. We also didn't scrap the old machine so we made a few batches of celluloid balls"

My own 2 cents. A blade is more of a long term investment compared to rubbers. As an intermediate to advance player, I would rather get the fastest blade that i can control very well (Not the fastest blade in the market but the best blade that i can control at my current level) and adjust the speed using rubbers. As I get better, I would upgrade the rubber to suit my needs. Only after getting full mastery of the equipment will i consider changing the blade and repeat the process from there. Excluding my short term period of being bitten by the EJ virus, a blade usually lasts around 3 years before I find myself needing a change.

I agree with Next level ....
i also preferring faster blade with slower rubbers... there is more gears then. and more control on speed.... Blade will be always more linear then rubbers in speed increasing.

bobpuls said:

I agree with Next level ....
i also preferring faster blade with slower rubbers... there is more gears then. and more control on speed.... Blade will be always more linear then rubbers in speed increasing.

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This really is up to individual preference. Pros from the speed glue era will tell you that any serious student back in the day who didn't use speed glue was doing a disservice to their advancement in table tennis. In other words, you used a slow blade for maximum feel along with fast speed glued rubber. As you got better, you'd go 7-ply or carbon. Since speed glue is banned, the Werner Schlager school recommends that you use max sponge thickness from the very beginning and learn with it. Schlager said that changing sponge thicknesses will require changes to your stroke, and when you are learning, you want to keep such changes to a minimum.

NextLevel said:

They are not as unique as you might think though you may be right that my considerations are more in tune with a certain level of play. Think of why the CNT use Chinese rubber on the forehand. Even when I have used Yasaka Extra and T80 for example, if I was healthy, I would prefer IF-ALC with Baracuda or Big Dipper or Mark V on a fast blade.

Click to expand...

From my perspective, slower equipment is often useful for most people who are healthy and can swing hard without ramifications on their body.

Most of those CNT players are using blades around the speed of a Viscaria or slower which isn't really such a fast blade even though I like a little bit slower than that. So the idea that with H3 which is not very fast, on a Viscaria, which is also not super fast, you can take a bigger swing more safely makes total sense to me. Especially for a fairly high level player. I think that is a totally different issue than someone who is having trouble keeping the ball on the table in loop and counterloop rallies because they are developing their technique.

For someone who is developing technique, I would start with a slow blade. I would also start with rubbers that allow you to learn to get the ball to sink into the sponge so the topsheet wraps around the ball more and grabs harder. Or with Chinese rubbers you would have to learn how to get the topsheet to really grab on brush contact.

I still go back to my example of my tennis pro friend. Because he is healthy and his stroke mechanics are awesome, he can blast shots like they came out of a cannon with a Stiga Allround Classic. If you are not healthy, maybe that is not the way to go. But if you are healthy, if you start with a slow blade, when you really develop your technique, and you move up to a faster blade, you will have some crazy power behind your shots.

I actually have another friend who plays TT who is also a Tennis pro. This guy is, overall, lower level by a lot than the one with the Allround Classic. This one uses a Rosewood XO and his old blade was a Stiga Allround Evolution. He has known Lily Yip since Adam and Judy were kids and taken lots of lessons with them. But they can't convince him to learn serve and receive skills. So I can take care of him in a match. However, he is way better than me at anything back from the table. Way, way better than me. One time I was hitting with him and a friend of mine who is fairly decent said, "Hey he has more power than you." I laughed. Waaaaaaaaaayyyyy more power than me. He also has way more power on pure blasting the ball than many 2400-2500 TT players. And his blade is a simple 5 ply all wood blade that really is not very fast.

When someone uses faster equipment to help out a physical condition, like, when someone has a shoulder issue and is using a faster blade to help him protect his shoulder, that is fine. It is intelligent. It makes complete sense. When someone is older and they are using a faster blade, and have the technique, and the faster blade helps them do less damage to their body, that also makes complete sense.

But for someone young and healthy, there are so many players out there who could slow down their equipment and, in the long run, end up learning how to put more of their own power behind their shots. That would be useful. And maybe you slow down both the blade and the rubber. But I would definitely start with the blade for sure.

UpSideDownCarl said:

From my perspective, slower equipment is often useful for most people who are healthy and can swing hard without ramifications on their body.

Most of those CNT players are using blades around the speed of a Viscaria or slower which isn't really such a fast blade even though I like a little bit slower than that. So the idea that with H3 which is not very fast, on a Viscaria, which is also not super fast, you can take a bigger swing more safely makes total sense to me. Especially for a fairly high level player. I think that is a totally different issue than someone who is having trouble keeping the ball on the table in loop and counterloop rallies because they are developing their technique.

For someone who is developing technique, I would start with a slow blade. I would also start with rubbers that allow you to learn to get the ball to sink into the sponge so the topsheet wraps around the ball more and grabs harder. Or with Chinese rubbers you would have to learn how to get the topsheet to really grab on brush contact.

I still go back to my example of my tennis pro friend. Because he is healthy and his stroke mechanics are awesome, he can blast shots like they came out of a cannon with a Stiga Allround Classic. If you are not healthy, maybe that is not the way to go. But if you are healthy, if you start with a slow blade, when you really develop your technique, and you move up to a faster blade, you will have some crazy power behind your shots.

I actually have another friend who plays TT who is also a Tennis pro. This guy is, overall, lower level by a lot than the one with the Allround Classic. This one uses a Rosewood XO and his old blade was a Stiga Allround Evolution. He has known Lily Yip since Adam and Judy were kids and taken lots of lessons with them. But they can't convince him to learn serve and receive skills. So I can take care of him in a match. However, he is way better than me at anything back from the table. Way, way better than me. One time I was hitting with him and a friend of mine who is fairly decent said, "Hey he has more power than you." I laughed. Waaaaaaaaaayyyyy more power than me. He also has way more power on pure blasting the ball than many 2400-2500 TT players. And his blade is a simple 5 ply all wood blade that really is not very fast.

When someone uses faster equipment to help out a physical condition, like, when someone has a shoulder issue and is using a faster blade to help him protect his shoulder, that is fine. It is intelligent. It makes complete sense. When someone is older and they are using a faster blade, and have the technique, and the faster blade helps them do less damage to their body, that also makes complete sense.

But for someone young and healthy, there are so many players out there who could slow down their equipment and, in the long run, end up learning how to put more of their own power behind their shots. That would be useful. And maybe you slow down both the blade and the rubber. But I would definitely start with the blade for sure.

Click to expand...

Wonderful post, Carl!

NextLevel said:

For the original question, I have preferred faster or mid powered blades with slow rubbers to slow blades and fast rubbers. I think that rubbers are more critical for slowing the ball down than blades if you play a spin-oriented game.

Click to expand...

UpSideDownCarl said:

Your circumstances are kind of unique. Your technique is highly developed and you were adjusting equipment to try and problem solve around the issue of power in your shots without compromising the health of your shoulder and knees. For a player of your level, who has adjusted equipment in many ways to try and balance over the table skills with power on kill shots, so you can end points as fast as you can. For you this makes sense. For many decent level players this would be a useful way of tweaking equipment choices.

But you were not shooting mid-distance shots long because of the equipment. The high end rubbers like T05 were affecting your over the table play.

Worth slowing everything down when you shoot long on mid-distance loops.


Sent from The Subterranean Workshop by Telepathy

Click to expand...

BTW, NextLevel, your shot quality, it is something that most players don't get till they hit 2200-2300-2400. If you had Matthew Khan's movement skills and ball tracking abilities, you would be 2300-2500 in no time. All it would take was adjusting to playing the level of spin and deception those guys are playing at all the time. For someone with the mobility that RA has limited you to, there has to be something in your skill set that allows you to play at the 2000-2100 level and it is not your knees or shoulder. And I can attest to the fact that, when you are in position, your shot quality is through the roof. It makes total sense to me for you to use a fast blade and high-control rubbers. On the level of whip mechanics, and impact dynamics that kind of combination makes 100 sense for you. Not so for many others.

Jabugo said:

This really is up to individual preference. Pros from the speed glue era will tell you that any serious student back in the day who didn't use speed glue was doing a disservice to their advancement in table tennis. In other words, you used a slow blade for maximum feel along with fast speed glued rubber. As you got better, you'd go 7-ply or carbon. Since speed glue is banned, the Werner Schlager school recommends that you use max sponge thickness from the very beginning and learn with it. Schlager said that changing sponge thicknesses will require changes to your stroke, and when you are learning, you want to keep such changes to a minimum.

Click to expand...

Slow doesn't mean what you think it does. After all, I am not using traditional rubbers and I could very well be using a boosted version of H3 or Baracuda or what I am using right now.

Slow means that the rubber is relatively linear and not so bouncy. I would be very good with speed glued rubbers because they were linear for the most part. Things like Tenergy shoot the ball before I have a chance to do anything to it. I use max sponge thickness in what I use now.

UpSideDownCarl said:

From my perspective, slower equipment is often useful for most people who are healthy and can swing hard without ramifications on their body.

Most of those CNT players are using blades around the speed of a Viscaria or slower which isn't really such a fast blade even though I like a little bit slower than that. So the idea that with H3 which is not very fast, on a Viscaria, which is also not super fast, you can take a bigger swing more safely makes total sense to me. Especially for a fairly high level player. I think that is a totally different issue than someone who is having trouble keeping the ball on the table in loop and counterloop rallies because they are developing their technique.

For someone who is developing technique, I would start with a slow blade. I would also start with rubbers that allow you to learn to get the ball to sink into the sponge so the topsheet wraps around the ball more and grabs harder. Or with Chinese rubbers you would have to learn how to get the topsheet to really grab on brush contact.

I still go back to my example of my tennis pro friend. Because he is healthy and his stroke mechanics are awesome, he can blast shots like they came out of a cannon with a Stiga Allround Classic. If you are not healthy, maybe that is not the way to go. But if you are healthy, if you start with a slow blade, when you really develop your technique, and you move up to a faster blade, you will have some crazy power behind your shots.

I actually have another friend who plays TT who is also a Tennis pro. This guy is, overall, lower level by a lot than the one with the Allround Classic. This one uses a Rosewood XO and his old blade was a Stiga Allround Evolution. He has known Lily Yip since Adam and Judy were kids and taken lots of lessons with them. But they can't convince him to learn serve and receive skills. So I can take care of him in a match. However, he is way better than me at anything back from the table. Way, way better than me. One time I was hitting with him and a friend of mine who is fairly decent said, "Hey he has more power than you." I laughed. Waaaaaaaaaayyyyy more power than me. He also has way more power on pure blasting the ball than many 2400-2500 TT players. And his blade is a simple 5 ply all wood blade that really is not very fast.

When someone uses faster equipment to help out a physical condition, like, when someone has a shoulder issue and is using a faster blade to help him protect his shoulder, that is fine. It is intelligent. It makes complete sense. When someone is older and they are using a faster blade, and have the technique, and the faster blade helps them do less damage to their body, that also makes complete sense.

But for someone young and healthy, there are so many players out there who could slow down their equipment and, in the long run, end up learning how to put more of their own power behind their shots. That would be useful. And maybe you slow down both the blade and the rubber. But I would definitely start with the blade for sure.

Click to expand...

Excellent post. That's my approach as a developing player and I think even my osp virtuoso plus can be swapped with sth a bit slower to "force" myself to put more effort into shot and improve my technique. Got a 2nd hand OSP expert so will see if works well.