Slow down a blade or speed up the rubbers?

Andy44 said:

Possibly a koto/composite blade like Viscaria with a thin top sheet rubber like Karis manages to engage the sponge immediately and so feels linear at low and moderate speed. Would be interesting to know if Karis loses some of that linear feel with a slower, softer blade.

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Andy, for maybe 6 months I used Karis M+ on the ALL to ALL+ 5 ply all-wood LISSOM blade. I had touch, I had a decent top end when I cracked it. I had spin on openers. I play my best level with M+ on the ALL to ALL+ Lissom or the OFF- to low OFF KJH 7 ply wood.

There are many other Nexy blades work well for me. The OFF+ Hannibal carbon with plain ole Karis M performs well on the same shots, only a TAD less than Lissom or KJH. It surprised the heck outta me.

Hullo. Haven't posted in a while but I wanted to update you that the 500+ hrs (now 600+) Karis M rubber that I got from Der_Echte is still very much usable. Worked really well as my BH rubber on a Virtuoso Off- and no complaints on spin or speed. Do note that I'm a ~800 rated player, but I've been told I have a ~1400 backhand loop. Sadly, other parts of my game still need to catch up.

That said, finally retired it about a month ago and started playing with the Skyine TG3-60 on both sides. I'm thinking of sticking the 600+ hour Karis M and the 400+ hour Karis M+ on an All+ blade and passing it to my friend as her first proper TT racket. I think it'll work wonders for her.

Suga D said:

To whom it may concern.

This thread reminds me of a chat i had a while ago after training with Tanja Krämer* which made me rethink the choice of my equipment.

To that time i was using a Waldner Dotec Carbon (that blade is stiff as a brick) with Bluefire M2 max on fh and BF M3 max on BH.
After the first 2h session we had a break of an half an hour and i asked her what she was using.
She answered she just got the (to that time) brandnew Aruna Off-blade, and then added that she will soon switch back to her previous blade, which i believe was a Rossi, but not sure which one, but it was in the range off- to all+
I wanted to know why and she replied that she was tired of giving away to many easy points on serve return and short game and because of her daughter she couldn't put in the hours to make the Aruna become 'natural' to her.
She told me the difference between not so succesful players and succesful ones is simple.
The latter just put the ball on the table more often. And since playing TT has some influence on her income she also couldn't afford losing to weaker players by giving easy points.

Luckily i was smart enough to listen to her, put away my WDC and got a Nittaku Shake Carbon Off (it's actually rather considered off- to all+ nowadays) but a significant step back in terms of speed and a significant step up in terms of control in the shortgame and it was definitely worth it.
I also got one of her old blades she used to play quite some time. It's a Andrzej Grubba All+ (!!!)
But i haven't used it yet. I might give it to my son if he starts playing more seriously...


*For those who don't know Tanja, she was on the German women's National team, won German National championships in singles and doubles, and also participated quite succesful at US-Open 2009.

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To me that is the right way to approach TT equipment.

If you are an intermediate player,super-high-speed-insanely-bouncy stuff could just prevent you to growing up and improve.
Slowing down and using a control-oriented racket will help a lot in focusing on technique and put more balls on the other side.

Yesterday I tried the Waldner Senso Carbon with T05. Very heavy, super stiff,almost no vibrations. It was hard to tell if the ball hit the racket, even if I saw it

I'm very happy with my super-slow-high-gflexible-crazy-control racket

I have played TT for a few years when younger with and without a little coaching here and there. Came back older for a year or 2. and came back again now at almost 30 years of age. I was always an ALL round kind of player and still am. I have been through so many different kinds of equipment and I can honestly say i believe for an ALL player, getting a solid ALL to Off- blade all wood like the Sitga ALL and Off classic are super beneficial for life. Pairing them up with rubbers like Mark V with 1.5-2.0. No need to change anything unless you are able to compete with high lvl players. I started with those rubbers and even now after using T05 on my BH I will most likely go back to Mark V for the very reason of the post above. and this is all with me doing some multiball now and then.

For the OP, try the Joola Wing medium blade (if you want to stick to Joola). and put on some Mark Vs or Sriver L 1.5-2.0. It will be a lifelong setup.

brodolio said:

To me that is the right way to approach TT equipment.

If you are an intermediate player,super-high-speed-insanely-bouncy stuff could just prevent you to growing up and improve.
Slowing down and using a control-oriented racket will help a lot in focusing on technique and put more balls on the other side.

Yesterday I tried the Waldner Senso Carbon with T05. Very heavy, super stiff,almost no vibrations. It was hard to tell if the ball hit the racket, even if I saw it

I'm very happy with my super-slow-high-gflexible-crazy-control racket

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And you got that feeling with a WSC. A WSC is like an entry-level carbon blade

Fabian said:

And you got that feeling with a WSC. A WSC is like an entry-level carbon blade

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It's the same with my TB ALC. Of course it is more "sophisticated". I can definitely feel the difference. But I still believe it's to soon to use it.

Again, an all wood ALL+ blade suits my needs very much.
And that would be my suggestion to every intermediate player.

This is a very interesting OP. In my 40+ years of playing table tennis and trying various combination of blades/rubbers and as my speed/strength decrease with current age I find out a slower blade (off-, all+) with soft thick sponge rubber like Rakza 7 soft work very well for me. My game is more on control, not power, though. When I was much younger an off- to off blade (Timo Boll arylate Spirit) plus H3 worked very well with the FH.

tropical said:

This is a very interesting OP. In my 40+ years of playing table tennis and trying various combination of blades/rubbers and as my speed/strength decrease with current age I find out a slower blade (off-, all+) with soft thick sponge rubber like Rakza 7 soft work very well for me. My game is more on control, not power, though. When I was much younger an off- to off blade (Timo Boll arylate Spirit) plus H3 worked very well with the FH.

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Of course it always depends on your own style.
But generally speaking, high responsive equipment is not easy to manage.

I have used WSC till it broke off from the neck and I had it paired with T05 rubbers ... looking back it is not a blade with a lot of feeling , there is a reason why they hollowed out the handle ... now this has been discussed elsewhere ... feeling with fingers and feeling from the handle are two different things ... WSC is good in the latter respect ... however, I feel that WSC is good with lighter donic rubbers which will have overall balance in the light blade ... T05 makes it a little too top heavy ... but hey equipment is only as good as the players .. and I don't honestly know how I will feel now if I go back to the older setup ... as you grow and mature as a player your perception of ball feeling also changes ... so I think I am probably not doing enough justice to WSC , commenting on it after 5 years ... but what the heck thats my opinion on it .. .

Fabian said:

And you got that feeling with a WSC. A WSC is like an entry-level carbon blade

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brodolio said:

Of course it always depends on your own style.
But generally speaking, high responsive equipment is not easy to manage.

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Yes, up to some point high responsive equipment may disturb, but from that point up, it may discover a whole world of possibilities.

langel said:

Yes, up to some point high responsive equipment may disturb, but from that point up, it may discover a whole world of possibilities.

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This might even be true to a degree, but if you start playing with that high-end high-responsive equiment as a beginner it's not very likely you'll ever reach a level to fully utilise that equipment.

Or at least very much slower than someone who practices with not so responsive equipment but instead who focusses working on his technical skillz.

A lot of this depends on how you play, how much you practice and what your strengths and weaknesses are. The one thing I will say is that the plastic ball is place a higher premium on speed and a lower premium on spin and power. It is harder to draw errors just by slowly spinning the ball.

The problem is that faster equipment demands precise timing for close to the table play and many players cannot put in the hours to master it unless they are professions. It is easier to play over the table strokes with slower equipment if you don't train your strokes.

But if you have long periods of daily training, you can use almost anything you want. But most people will go to something that rewards the shots that they most often play to win points.

The thing is that as Tanja said, the most important thing really is to get the ball on the table one more time than the opponent. Speed is only one component of playing shots that make this harder for the opponent and of course, speed can make it harder for you if your shots are not precise close to the table.

The thing is that as you get better, the players you play get better and your timing and power improves. This usually means more ability to use slower equipment to generate serious shots while easing your ability to play the ball short to get the first attacking opportunity.

Then as you get better again, better players are able to step back a little to give themselves more time to respond while still playing powerful shots and powerful equipment is critical if you want to rally fast without playing too hard. But this has to be balanced with the ability to play good short game to give the first attack.

There is no magic answer, but it is hard to build the feeling for the ball with extremely stiff or fast equipment. Beyond that though many possibilities exist. So for me, the main thing is not to use an OFF+ blade like Schlager carbon or Sardius or Amultart when developing (under USATT 1600-2000, depending on your goals and playing style), though some would argue that OFF+ blade with softer outer ply like Hinoki is still very playable if you have good touch. IT makes it harder to just build out the touch and defensive skill and the power for full strokes. But I know people who once they hit 1600 started using TBS or faster blades as adults and still broke 2000 USATT as adults. Even me now I am playing Carbon blade especially with the new ball.

The most important thing is to be aware that speed is important but it is not everything. When you realize this, any advanced player (1600+) will make good trade-offs if they are aware. I know 1600 (TTR 1200) is not advanced to many, but it is a playing level where a lot of things have been learned and that you just can't put lousy balls on the table and expect to win even if you are a good player.

Suga D said:

This might even be true to a degree, but if you start playing with that high-end high-responsive equiment as a beginner it's not very likely you'll ever reach a level to fully utilise that equipment.

Or at least very much slower than someone who practices with not so responsive equipment but instead who focusses working on his technical skillz.

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Of course, and that's why I say "at some point".

Besides that i think that practicing with slower controlable setups is very usefull and is a must in general, but sometimes using for particilar practice faster, flatter, stiffer, sharper setups may help too in many different ways. In my practice I use such methods with good results.

langel said:

Yes, up to some point high responsive equipment may disturb, but from that point up, it may discover a whole world of possibilities.

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I agree.
That's why I didn't sell my TB ALC. I'll take it up again once the time will come

I would like to share my experience here too.

I am a fairly medium scaled player who performs most of the techniques quite consistently. I recently decided to use a faster blade and I spent lot of money Mizutani off blade. I mixed it up with some tenergy and I suddenly got really faster. At the time, I missed lot of points when I was pushing the balls close the table or blocking the spinney balls. I also lost controls on backhand loops which I do not master very well. Then I decided to get a slower rubbers and I moved to Rozena. Still not very satisfied and I miss points close to the table as my balls goes off the table.

I am planning to move back to my old blade which is a cheap but rather a stable and slower blade. I believe these fast blades are for professional players with consistency level much higher than amateur players.

I never advise anyone to use fast blades. If you want to increase speed try rubbers which in turn are much cheaper compared to the blades.

I think a controllable blade approach is more reasonable since the hand that receives the direct feedback from the blade and not the rubber.

2 years of approooooching

Another consideration is to improve grip at impact... that affects the rebound.

Korean legend Lee Chul Soo recommends using more pressure with the first two finger at impact. That is the finger that is placed horizontally in one side of the blade.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

Yeah, but for penholders its the Middle Finger, which is the most important finger in lightbulb screwing as well.
A lot of lightbulbs have gone for the last two years

langel,

When I saw you mention Penholders and middle finger and screwing something in the same sentence, I so totally misunderstood at first glance. I thought you were talking about disguising a one finger salute with three fingers. Clever.