Asian Championships 2017

fais said:

I have this unshakable feeling that LGL did a screw job on his way out to feed his own ego. LGL likes embarrass players in public, props them up on a house of cards (the way he excessively praised LGY) only to tear them down when they falter... I've seen it before and I can't shake this feeling LGL does this.

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this is a ridiculous post. you dont seem to know much about chinese national pride. no coach would ever do this and believe me if there where the slightest of indication/suspicion, heads were going down asap.

You can now go to the basement and train with the girls because your attitute offends the greatest coach of all time

Congrats for Hirano. Unlike last year when she won World cup, this time I really hope that she can challenge chinese dominance for years to come.

ttmonster said:

Yes for all you know , it could be a shrewd marketing ploy by DHS to ask their sponsored players give that excuse ...

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Naaah, I dont think it is so serious, though I wouldnt be surprised if there is such a war going on between companies. Nittaku premium is definitely one of the best balls out there, to be fair though I havent played with DHS . At least not the latest batches/versions

As I posted in the Daily table tennis thread ... I got my hands on 6 new balls , they are good and comparable to Nittaku but has less spin ... I actually hurt my hand yesterday during my doubles when we had to switch the ball because the nittaku one broke .... looks like the material is comparatively harder and has a different bounce ... I tried to loop and the service went down quicker than expected because of the lack of spin ... there is definitely a difference ...

TTFrenzy said:

Naaah, I dont think it is so serious, though I wouldnt be surprised if there is such a war going on between companies. Nittaku premium is definitely one of the best balls out there, to be fair though I havent played with DHS . At least not the latest batches/versions

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ttmonster said:

As I posted in the Daily table tennis thread ... I got my hands on 6 new balls , they are good and comparable to Nittaku but has less spin ... I actually hurt my hand yesterday during my doubles when we had to switch the ball because the nittaku one broke .... looks like the material is comparatively harder and has a different bounce ... I tried to loop and the service went down quicker than expected because of the lack of spin ... there is definitely a difference ...

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But they were using the Nittaku ball not the DHS D40+ ball. So they can't complain. The spin is less on all ABS balls. But I personally can spin the D40+ comfortably and have no complaints about it. People still miss my serves etc.

Yes, but I think they point they are trying to make that they were preparing with the DHS D40+ balls in their training and hence using Nittaku is a change for htem ... I am not sure but atleast thats what appears to be the claim Xu xin and Ma Long has made in their interviews ...

Agreed you can still spin the D40+ ball , again with increasing skill set and touch the adaptability will be higher but I am speaking in general when comparing the two balls Nitakku spins more which would be an advantage to spin oriented players say Zhang Jike compared to more speed oriented players who play flatter strokes . Also for some changes get into their head more than others , case in point , my regular partner's game was complete messed day before yesterday when we played with the DHS balls but appeared to go back to normal when we switched back to Nittaku ...

NextLevel said:

But they were using the Nittaku ball not the DHS D40+ ball. So they can't complain. The spin is less on all ABS balls. But I personally can spin the D40+ comfortably and have no complaints about it. People still miss my serves etc.

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NextLevel said:

But they were using the Nittaku ball not the DHS D40+ ball. So they can't complain. The spin is less on all ABS balls. But I personally can spin the D40+ comfortably and have no complaints about it. People still miss my serves etc.

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I'll take less spin over playing with marshmallow balls any day of the week

nittaku premium isn't exactly marshmallow

laistrogian said:

I'll take less spin over playing with marshmallow balls any day of the week

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ttmonster said:

nittaku premium isn't exactly marshmallow

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By marshmallow balls i mean the 1st generation chinese seamed plastic balls

ttmonster said:

Yes, but I think they point they are trying to make that they were preparing with the DHS D40+ balls in their training and hence using Nittaku is a change for htem ... I am not sure but atleast thats what appears to be the claim Xu xin and Ma Long has made in their interviews ...

Agreed you can still spin the D40+ ball , again with increasing skill set and touch the adaptability will be higher but I am speaking in general when comparing the two balls Nitakku spins more which would be an advantage to spin oriented players say Zhang Jike compared to more speed oriented players who play flatter strokes . Also for some changes get into their head more than others , case in point , my regular partner's game was complete messed day before yesterday when we played with the DHS balls but appeared to go back to normal when we switched back to Nittaku ...

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No, they are comparing the ball to the old cellulose acetate ball. China built a whole practice venue for their team in Rio, do you think they would skimp on the cost of ordering only 3* NP40+ balls for training?

They are complaining that their spins and strokes don't draw errors like they used to with the old crappy ball. Laistrogian airs my thoughts perfectly, I prefer the consistency of the ball to any stupid spin they got with their tacky rubbers and boosting. Those eggs should never have been used and I hate to say it but Ma Long was an egg ball champion.

Look at how Niwa blocked down and countered Xu Xin, Xu Xin will blame the spin but it really comes down to consistent behavior of the ball so you can understand what your stroke does and what the opponent's stroke is doing.

Oh ! then we are on the same page , I have made it a practice to never play with those balls , even the XuShafa's are too much for me ...

ttmonster said:

I finally found some video of the 4th and 5th set ...

Any idea why ZJK was so pumped up after beating up Lin ? Is there some backstory to it ?

BTW, also saw that they are icing ZJK's left leg immediately after the match , if you watch the video till the end ...

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Yeah he had problem during the game :

ttmonster said:

Oh ! then we are on the same page , I have made it a practice to never play with those balls , even the XuShafa's are too much for me ...

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I could play with the Xu Shaofa, I even had decent results with the Dfish egg. I just hated the DHS egg and its clones. I mean don't get me wrong, I may come to rue the loss of spin, but I am a heavy spin player by nature, I left equipment with more spin to use equipment with more control because I didn't think I was getting an advantage from having extra spinny equipment any more, especially on defence when blocking. So I may not be the right person to speak about loss of spin. For me the spin is enough. I don't try to draw errors from overwhelming spin anymore, I gave up on that two years ago - it's all about consistency, variations and power using the the spin now, variatioms being more about adapting to the opponent and power being about less blocking and more hitting and counterlooping.

TTFrenzy said:

this is a ridiculous post. you dont seem to know much about chinese national pride. no coach would ever do this and believe me if there where the slightest of indication/suspicion, heads were going down asap.

You can now go to the basement and train with the girls because your attitute offends the greatest coach of all time

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hahaha
well said TTFrenzy

Fais, do you really think CNT is a mickey mouse organization?
LGL feeding his own ego?

I am assuming you have a language barrier with mandarin

ajtatosmano2 said:

I don't think that china doesn't treats Asian Champs with high priority. They sent all of their big guns. I feel that they didn't do 'special preparations' and at the same time coaches expected them to win every single match (against foreigners). This put the players under high pressure and they lost their confidence.

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Well, you just said what I said
No special preparations = not high priority.

In Close training, they train not just on themselves, but train playing against certain players.
Here they also develop new technique to handle those players

Clearly based on the womens matches, Japan is one step ahead when comes to new technique

The thing about pressure, well thats athlete for you, or rather, Chinese TT athletes for you

NextLevel said:

No, they are comparing the ball to the old cellulose acetate ball. China built a whole practice venue for their team in Rio, do you think they would skimp on the cost of ordering only 3* NP40+ balls for training?

They are complaining that their spins and strokes don't draw errors like they used to with the old crappy ball. Laistrogian airs my thoughts perfectly, I prefer the consistency of the ball to any stupid spin they got with their tacky rubbers and boosting. Those eggs should never have been used and I hate to say it but Ma Long was an egg ball champion.

Look at how Niwa blocked down and countered Xu Xin, Xu Xin will blame the spin but it really comes down to consistent behavior of the ball so you can understand what your stroke does and what the opponent's stroke is doing.

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There is 5 different balls
Made in China new DHS
Made in China DF
Made in China XSF
Made in Germany Butterfly G40+
Made in Japan Nittaku Premium

They are play different.
There wasn't any proper build up to Asian Champ
The trials was defiantly not a build up to Asian Champ

Interesting to see how WTTC goes

I understand where you are coming from , I am still a heavy spin player and my approach is still to make heavy spin . I appreciate the fact that even thought Nittaku is slower you could still spin it and still force mistakes from the deceptive spin . I am not as consistent as you are to change my game to take advantage from consistency or may be its a mindset change that I need to make.

NextLevel said:

I could play with the Xu Shaofa, I even had decent results with the Dfish egg. I just hated the DHS egg and its clones. I mean don't get me wrong, I may come to rue the loss of spin, but I am a heavy spin player by nature, I left equipment with more spin to use equipment with more control because I didn't think I was getting an advantage from having extra spinny equipment any more, especially on defence when blocking. So I may not be the right person to speak about loss of spin. For me the spin is enough. I don't try to draw errors from overwhelming spin anymore, I gave up on that two years ago - it's all about consistency, variations and power using the the spin now, variatioms being more about adapting to the opponent and power being about less blocking and more hitting and counterlooping.

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Tony's Table Tennis said:

There is 5 different balls
Made in China new DHS
Made in China DF
Made in China XSF
Made in Germany Butterfly G40+
Made in Japan Nittaku Premium

They are play different.
There wasn't any proper build up to Asian Champ
The trials was defiantly not a build up to Asian Champ

Interesting to see how WTTC goes

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There are 7 different 3* ITTF approved balls at least. I am a bit of a ball expert, having bought and tested every ball and played with various types of equipment for every ball, I just don't talk about it.

1. Made in China old DHS - this is the cellulose acetate ball that was used in WTTC 2015, Olympics 2016 and all ITTF tour and world events until February this year. Joola, Nittaku, Butterfly and many European companies copied this ball with different QA levels.
2. Made in China new DHS - this is the new D40+ ball (ABS plastic) that will be used going forward in ITTF events. Many companies will copy this ball.
3. Made in China old DF - cellulose acetate, used in DFish sponsored comp, including NCTTAs in the USA. Kinson and some companies copied this ball.
4. MAde in China new DF ball - this is the new V40+ (ABS plastic) that I think will set DFish where it usually is relative to DHS.
5. Made in China seamless balls, XSF - this is the seamless ball that most commonly associated with XSF. Popular with many amateurs but not used in any international pro tournaments.
6. Made in Germany Butterfly G40+ - The German attempt at a plastic ball, very fast and smooth. Dents without breaking and smoothness makes it harder to control with extended use. Used at a few Butterfly events.
7. Made in JApan Nittaku Premium - the first ABS 3 star ball and the technology that seems to have won out with its adoption by DHS and DFish. Used in many top European events and Japanese events and the ball preferred by most pros who are not Chinese.

I have used every ball. Balls 2, 4 and 7 play differently, but still play similarly. If you practice with all 2 or 4, you will do okay with ball 7 (the reverse might not be true).

The Chinese team used Nittaku for the Marvelous 12 event. They can complain all they want to about the lack of training but they have experience with the ball. I can accept that their trials was not a build up to peak at an event. Their closed training will be a build up to peak at WTTC.

But in the end, they knew the ball, they have the ball, they have competed internally with the ball, and they have known ABS balls spin less for months. No more eggs.

Tony's Table Tennis said:

Well, you just said what I said
No special preparations = not high priority.

In Close training, they train not just on themselves, but train playing against certain players.
Here they also develop new technique to handle those players

Clearly based on the womens matches, Japan is one step ahead when comes to new technique

The thing about pressure, well thats athlete for you, or rather, Chinese TT athletes for you

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Probably it didn't come through what I wanted to say:
There is a difference between when you say to your players 'you are the best, play as usual, nothing else is needed to win' and when you tell them 'guys, our team is the best so don't lose, okay? Who loses will be punished! We don't have time to another closed training as WTTC comes in a few weeks, but you still can't lose, I am clear?.'
In the first you don't give high priority to the tournament, in the second you just have an even higher priority one close in time.

ajtatosmano2 said:

Probably it didn't come through what I wanted to say:
There is a difference between when you say to your players 'you are the best, play as usual, nothing else is needed to win' and when you tell them 'guys, our team is the best so don't lose, okay? Who loses will be punished! We don't have time to another closed training as WTTC comes in a few weeks, but you still can't lose, I am clear?.'
In the first you don't give high priority to the tournament, in the second you just have an even higher priority one close in time.

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The reason why the closed training is an "issue" is because of the ball changes. Without that, it would be far less of an issue.