Astounding discovery

Mumon · May 1, 2017

TTFrenzy said:
Yes you are doing it consiously thats really good for you I see lots of players who fail to understand that proper equipment magnifies your potential in an "analogical manner" (I believe one cannot accurately measure it but I will give it a try below) and they change equipment after some devastating losses instead of focusing on quality training

So if a player with poor or ineffective technique lets say produces (hypothetically speaking) 1000rpm in his topspin and a tenergy rubber gives 20 % boost his topspin will have 1200 rpm

A player with perfect technique will produce double or even triple that amount lets say 2500 rpm (hypothetically speaking again) with a tenergy he will produce 3000 rpm

Quite devastating difference.

Now a good player with a 5 % boost (a cheap crappy rubber compared to the tenergy) will still be better in his topspin, the difference will be that with the 5 % rubber the good player will probably need not one but two topspins to penetrate another's player defense and finish the point, so he will still be better no matter the equipment but it will be harder for him to finish off a point.

That is a pretty good way of putting it!

peace!

NextLevel · May 1, 2017

TTFrenzy said:
Now a good player with a 5 % boost (a cheap crappy rubber compared to the tenergy) will still be better in his topspin, the difference will be that with the 5 % rubber the good player will probably need not one but two topspins to penetrate another's player defense and finish the point, so he will still be better no matter the equipment but it will be harder for him to finish off a point.

I like this analogy a lot but I would like to add that like many EJ analogies, it focuses almost exclusively on topspin while at higher level TT, things like being able to keep the ball short, attack short balls over the table or block/counter the opening topspin consistently are also things you have to do. And not all those things are made easy by the same kind of equipment. A general analogy is that the faster your equipment, the more skill it requires to swing fast and keep the ball on the table consistently, so you have to find for your level the right balance of consistency and speed when putting your game together. People focus on tackiness when it comes to offence, but to me, tackiness is really about ball control and countering, the actual spin of H3 is meh, but the fact it doesn't bottom out and permits ultra hard sponges is what makes it good. Pros like Aruna who use similarly hard sponges with Euro rubber get the same countering effect, but lack the short game special control on the flip side.

TTFrenzy · May 1, 2017

NextLevel said:
I like this analogy a lot but I would like to add that like many EJ analogies, it focuses almost exclusively on topspin while at higher level TT, things like being able to keep the ball short, attack short balls over the table or block/counter the opening topspin consistently are also things you have to do. And not all those things are made easy by the same kind of equipment. A general analogy is that the faster your equipment, the more skill it requires to swing fast and keep the ball on the table consistently, so you have to find for your level the right balance of consistency and speed when putting your game together. People focus on tackiness when it comes to offence, but to me, tackiness is really about ball control and countering, the actual spin of H3 is meh, but the fact it doesn't bottom out and permits ultra hard sponges is what makes it good. Pros like Aruna who use similarly hard sponges with Euro rubber get the same countering effect, but lack the short game special control on the flip side.

Yes all accurate points u made there, tackiness does not mean much if your attack is not near the endline or penetrating enough to force a weak block or a mistake so it boils down to "technique comes first" . Eventually one has to find what suits him the most instead of choosing a rubber based on fan criteria or because kreanga or ma long uses the same rubber/blade and I think after a certain level the weight is also a huge factor, I quit using H3 because of that my physique just couldnt handle it and I needed tons of training to get better so I switched to euro rubber

ajtatosmano2 · May 1, 2017

I use H3 because:
1. Cheap
2. Outstanding in short-play
3. Forces me to play focused. You can't generate quality shots without full commitment.

Billy Dobson · May 2, 2017

great tips and technique !! I am not so much into table tennis but I have started it as a beginner.
recently, I came across with some kind of wood, I don't have any idea about the wood name and kind but I saw some Baby high chair, that was made of the same kind of wood. Can you tell me its name?

Thanks for sharing

Suga D · May 2, 2017

Hey Mumon,
I think you wrote something very important and interesting.

Mumon said:
--> I play for the moments it works since that brings a big grin to my face and makes me truly happy-->I need that equipment for that to work.

I know its not the smart way to play but my way

peace!

Why is this not a smart way?
Well, i haven't seen a vid of you playing, but i believe you're not planning on becoming a pro player. And if your TTR is below roundabout 2100 and you're already older than (let's say) 21 then the chances of becoming a pro are quite slim.
So what you're actually doing is makin' a lot of sense IMO and what is absolutely correct. And that's:
DOING WHAT GIVES YOU THE MOST JOY AND PLEASURE!
We only have one life to live, so might as well live it to the fullest.

So just use what you like most and what makes you the happiest. IMHO

Now that being said: from the way how you've been describing your "discovery", I'm not sure if you're really doing what you think you're doing.

From the way how you describe it, it sounds to me as if you're using the topsheet too little and instead use too much sponge while spinning. To engage the H3 properly one needs to brush fine and only make very "thin" contact.
If a rubber isn't tacky sometimes the ball just slips from the topsheet while brushing. Especially if the rubbers have been used already for a while.
It happened to me with Desto F2 and F3, with Bluefire M2 and M3, heck, it even happened to me with T05, but happened much less with Spinart, and it actually doesn't happen to me at all with H3 and H3NEO.
Even an old worn out National H3 still does the job quite well.

Hard to tell without having seen a vid of you playing, but you can find out easily if you work with a Spin-wheel.
If the wheel makes too much noise and your wrists start hurting, you most likely will have to adjust your technique.

Not sure if this is the reason for your "discovery", but to me it seems so.

Hope this helps in a way.
[Emoji2]

Mumon · May 3, 2017

Suga D said:
Hey Mumon,
I think you wrote something very important and interesting.

Why is this not a smart way?
Well, i haven't seen a vid of you playing, but i believe you're not planning on becoming a pro player. And if your TTR is below roundabout 2100 and you're already older than (let's say) 21 then the chances of becoming a pro are quite slim.
So what you're actually doing is makin' a lot of sense IMO and what is absolutely correct. And that's:
DOING WHAT GIVES YOU THE MOST JOY AND PLEASURE!
We only have one life to live, so might as well live it to the fullest.

So just use what you like most and what makes you the happiest. IMHO

Now that being said: from the way how you've been describing your "discovery", I'm not sure if you're really doing what you think you're doing.

From the way how you describe it, it sounds to me as if you're using the topsheet too little and instead use too much sponge while spinning. To engage the H3 properly one needs to brush fine and only make very "thin" contact.
If a rubber isn't tacky sometimes the ball just slips from the topsheet while brushing. Especially if the rubbers have been used already for a while.
It happened to me with Desto F2 and F3, with Bluefire M2 and M3, heck, it even happened to me with T05, but happened much less with Spinart, and it actually doesn't happen to me at all with H3 and H3NEO.
Even an old worn out National H3 still does the job quite well.

Hard to tell without having seen a vid of you playing, but you can find out easily if you work with a Spin-wheel.
If the wheel makes too much noise and your wrists start hurting, you most likely will have to adjust your technique.

Not sure if this is the reason for your "discovery", but to me it seems so.

Hope this helps in a way.
[Emoji2]

Haha I had a feeling you would understand my reasoning! I do not aim to become a proffessional however I plan on becoming the best I can get. Now, my topspin technique Is not smashing nor thinly brushing the ball. I approach the ball (indifferent to the spin) with a completely open racket and just before contact I rip the racket horizontally. This creates the H3 neos original crackling sound and produces ungodly amounts of spin which keep the ball so low that it doesnt rise notably after it bounces on the opponents side of the table. I believe that to be the correct technique while using the H3 not only because i copied it from the CNT but because it feels right and makes sense.
If you have video material of you looping I would gladly tell you if it seems familiar or not. I will furthermore provide a video of my own when my shoulder is healed.

peace!

Archosaurus · May 3, 2017

Completely open racket, horizontal rip? That sounds an awful lot like smashing to me.

Mumon · May 3, 2017

Archosaurus said:
Completely open racket, horizontal rip? That sounds an awful lot like smashing to me.

you misunderstood that. blade is vertical on the approach and horizontal at contact.

peace!

Archosaurus · May 3, 2017

Mumon said:
you misunderstood that. blade is vertical on the approach and horizontal at contact.

peace!

I hope you aren't "adjusting" the angle consciously. That would explain your shoulder injury.

Mumon · May 3, 2017

Archosaurus said:
I hope you aren't "adjusting" the angle consciously. That would explain your shoulder injury.

I dont know what you mean by that, please explain. I am not thinking while looping if that is what you meant, the motion kinda comes natural. And no, I have impingement syndrom in my right shoulder, meaning the space between my arm and my shoulder bone is too narrow which in normal circumstances is no problem but since I overtrained it, the joint mucosa got inflamed and makes it difficult to lift my arm in certain ways.

peace!

Archosaurus · May 3, 2017

Mumon said:
I dont know what you mean by that, please explain. I am not thinking while looping if that is what you meant, the motion kinda comes natural. And no, I have impingement syndrom in my right shoulder, meaning the space between my arm and my shoulder bone is too narrow which in normal circumstances is no problem but since I overtrained it, the joint mucosa got inflamed and makes it difficult to lift my arm in certain ways.

peace!

It's difficult to pinpoint from text what someone is really talking about in things like this. From what I've been told and experienced, there's bad ways and good ways to have your racket angle open and close. The swing is pretty much straight anyway.

I guess the video will tell.

laistrogian · May 3, 2017

ajtatosmano2 said:
I use H3 because:
1. Cheap
2. Outstanding in short-play
3. Forces me to play focused. You can't generate quality shots without full commitment.

But you probably need to boost it. Although I tried a provincial hurricane 3 that my friend bought on viscaria and it feels way better than the commercial one I put on my TBS.

ajtatosmano2 · May 3, 2017

laistrogian said:
But you probably need to boost it. Although I tried a provincial hurricane 3 that my friend bought on viscaria and it feels way better than the commercial one I put on my TBS.

Yeah, but Provincial orange sponge (still better than commercial ones) cost the same as modern tensors. And after boosting it's amazing.

Suga D · May 11, 2017

Mumon said:
Haha I had a feeling you would understand my reasoning! I do not aim to become a proffessional however I plan on becoming the best I can get. Now, my topspin technique Is not smashing nor thinly brushing the ball. I approach the ball (indifferent to the spin) with a completely open racket and just before contact I rip the racket horizontally. This creates the H3 neos original crackling sound and produces ungodly amounts of spin which keep the ball so low that it doesnt rise notably after it bounces on the opponents side of the table. I believe that to be the correct technique while using the H3 not only because i copied it from the CNT but because it feels right and makes sense.
If you have video material of you looping I would gladly tell you if it seems familiar or not. I will furthermore provide a video of my own when my shoulder is healed.

peace!

Here's a short vid that a friend of mine recorded.

<blockquote class="instagram-media" data-instgrm-captioned data-instgrm-version="7" style=" background:#FFF; border:0; border-radius:3px; box-shadow:0 0 1px 0 rgba(0,0,0,0.5),0 1px 10px 0 rgba(0,0,0,0.15); margin: 1px; max-width:658px; padding:0; width:99.375%; width:-webkit-calc(100% - 2px); width:calc(100% - 2px);"><div style="padding:8px;"> <div style=" background:#F8F8F8; line-height:0; margin-top:40px; padding:59.02777777777778% 0; text-align:center; width:100%;"> <div style=" background:url(data:image/png;base64,iVBORw0KGgoAAAANSUhEUgAAACwAAAAsCAMAAAApWqozAAAABGdBTUEAALGPC/xhBQAAAAFzUkdCAK7OHOkAAAAMUExURczMzPf399fX1+bm5mzY9AMAAADiSURBVDjLvZXbEsMgCES5/P8/t9FuRVCRmU73JWlzosgSIIZURCjo/ad+EQJJB4Hv8BFt+IDpQoCx1wjOSBFhh2XssxEIYn3ulI/6MNReE07UIWJEv8UEOWDS88LY97kqyTliJKKtuYBbruAyVh5wOHiXmpi5we58Ek028czwyuQdLKPG1Bkb4NnM+VeAnfHqn1k4+GPT6uGQcvu2h2OVuIf/gWUFyy8OWEpdyZSa3aVCqpVoVvzZZ2VTnn2wU8qzVjDDetO90GSy9mVLqtgYSy231MxrY6I2gGqjrTY0L8fxCxfCBbhWrsYYAAAAAElFTkSuQmCC); display:block; height:44px; margin:0 auto -44px; position:relative; top:-22px; width:44px;"></div></div> <p style=" margin:8px 0 0 0; padding:0 4px;"> <a href="https://www.instagram.com/p/BTJySqggko9/" style=" color:#000; font-family:Arial,sans-serif; font-size:14px; font-style:normal; font-weight:normal; line-height:17px; text-decoration:none; word-wrap:break-word;" target="_blank">@Sugadee_official!! Backspin for Backspin even while i'm rappin' ????????</a></p> <p style=" color:#c9c8cd; font-family:Arial,sans-serif; font-size:14px; line-height:17px; margin-bottom:0; margin-top:8px; overflow:hidden; padding:8px 0 7px; text-align:center; text-overflow:ellipsis; white-space:nowrap;">A video posted by Sugadee_official ?? (@Sugadee_official) on <time style=" font-family:Arial,sans-serif; font-size:14px; line-height:17px;" datetime="2017-02-05T18:08:12+00:00">Feb 5, 2017 at 10:08am PST</time></p></div></blockquote>
<script async defer src="//platform.instagram.com/en_US/embeds.js"></script>

Tinykin · May 11, 2017

Big guys rule!!

Mumon · May 12, 2017

Suga D said:
Here's a short vid that a friend of mine recorded.

<iframe class="instagram-media instagram-media-rendered" id="instagram-embed-0" src="https://www.instagram.com/p/BTJySqggko9/embed/captioned/?cr=1&v=7#%7B%22ci%22%3A0%2C%22os%22%3A139.685%7D" allowtransparency="true" frameborder="0" height="816" data-instgrm-payload-id="instagram-media-payload-0" scrolling="no" style="background: rgb(255, 255, 255); border: 1px solid rgb(219, 219, 219); margin: 1px 1px 12px; max-width: 658px; width: calc(100% - 2px); border-radius: 4px; box-shadow: none; display: block; padding: 0px;"></iframe>
<script async="" defer="" src="//platform.instagram.com/en_US/embeds.js"></script>

I see now what you meant by brushing, but theres still some forward movement involved. Its a very clean swing you have there.

peace!

Suga D · May 12, 2017

Mumon said:
I see now what you meant by brushing, but theres still some forward movement involved. Its a very clean swing you have there.

peace!

Thanks mate. I have to agree with the forward movement.

Gekko · May 24, 2017

So did the OP end up switching to the Ventus Speed?

Mumon · May 25, 2017

He did

peace!

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