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    1. Top | #1
      Richie is offline
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      Just another blade thread

      Hey guys,

      so about a year and a half ago I posted this thread https://www.tabletennisdaily.co.uk/f...w-faster-blade
      and I'd like to thank everyone who posted in it, especially Carl who not only gave me some great info but also for inspiring me to do more research myself.

      The acoustic has worked like an absolute dream for me and I've had comments from others about my increase in level which I to some extent attribute to using this blade. I still love the feeling of it and the amount of spin I can generate thanks to the feeling of this blade.

      So here I am again, mainly because I would like to try something new, something different and see how I would get on with a carbon blade. I also don't want to mess with my development so I'll go back to the acoustic if I feel like the new blade won't help me. I can lift pretty heavy backspin comfortably with my forehand now (as long as I move ) and okayish with my backhand, which isn't as consistent.

      I've tried the viscaria which felt nice, bit crisper, more powerful.. but slightly less spin than acoustic, I thought. I also tried zhang jike super zlc which I thought felt pretty similar to the viscaria (however I tried them at different times so it's difficult to really tell). Each time however, I've felt better when I'm back with my acoustic.. but maybe this is just because I'm so used to it now.

      I would like to try a carbon blade with limba as the outerply as perhaps this would be more what I'm looking for and more similar to the acoustic? I was considering the innerforce ALC or the michael maze blade (doesn't seem like it's available anymore though?). Unfortunately I haven't found anyone with either of these blades for me to try out yet.

      So, what other blade suggestions are there? Do any of you have any comments on the feeling of limba as an outerply compared to koto on a carbon blade and how you've felt it affects spin?
      Also, if anyone wants to share their experience of when they switched to carbon and why, please do.

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    3. Top | #2
      Ilia Minkin is offline
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      I am not a gear expert, but if you liked Acoustic so much and want to try carbon, try Acoustic Carbon

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    5. Top | #3
      Lermanator is offline
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      I think best carbon blades are probably Carbonado 145, Hurricane Long 5, Viscaria, Innerforce Layer ZLC and Mizutani Jun ZLC
      Slow spin is dead

    6. Top | #4
      Richie is offline
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      Quote Originally Posted by Ilia Minkin View Post
      I am not a gear expert, but if you liked Acoustic so much and want to try carbon, try Acoustic Carbon
      Good point, I guess I'd already ruled it out because 1. I've tried it a few times and didn't particularly like it, I definitely preferred the viscaria to it and 2. Because I want something a bit more different. When I changed to the acoustic it took some time to adjust but I also learned so much from this adjustment. I'm sort of wanting to create that feeling again, but maybe that's not possible.

      I want to try something different anyway and if I feel it's not helping my game then I'll just go back to the acoustic.

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    8. Top | #5
      yuri.saldon is offline
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      I think the most reseonable answer is something like innerforce alc/zlc because both have carbon in the inner plys giving more wood feeling.

      But other alternative to try something different, faster and stiffer but without carbon is trying 7 plys allwood blades

      Sent from my 2014819 using Tapatalk

    9. Top | #6
      NextLevel is offline
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      Quote Originally Posted by Richie View Post
      So, what other blade suggestions are there? Do any of you have any comments on the feeling of limba as an outerply compared to koto on a carbon blade and how you've felt it affects spin?
      Also, if anyone wants to share their experience of when they switched to carbon and why, please do.
      The Freitas ALC is the new Maze, so to speak. You can try the innerforces as well. Blade choice is not rocket science, it's more like dating and marrying - some get lucky with love at first sight, some hop around and then commit, while others continue to date until they die, or some marry for a while and then break up to do other things.

      The thing is that faster equipment usually requires better touch and faster hand speed, if you have these things then go for it. You aren't going to find a faster blade that is spinnier than a slower blade, leave that dream behind. What faster blades do is allow your strokes to focus on spin, the speed being largely guaranteed by the tangential rebound, but you have to swing really fast and with good timing to get the penetration required. Depending on your precision and swing speed you have options, but a lot of things about feeling are purely personal preference - outerply and feeling of hardness is 100% personal preference as spin is largely from the rubber.

      The main reason to go to composites nowadays is to drive the plastic ball more effortlessly. But again, you need the swing speeds to do this. Also, the larger sweet spot of composites make them play more consistently than wood, which may be a good thing or a bad thing depending on your bent. But Kasumi Ishikawa was using the Innerforce ALC-S, which is not a fast composite blade and using it with Hurricane rubbers for that matter, so again it all comes down to what you are looking for.

      Good luck! No one is going to be giving you a Viscaria for 10 pounds, that's for sure!
      Cobra Kai TT Exponent - No mercy in this dojo, no matter your rating or the score. All spin, no power or footwork.

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    11. Top | #7
      ajtatosmano2 is offline
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      Tiago ZLC?

    12. Top | #8
      NextLevel is offline
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      Quote Originally Posted by ajtatosmano2 View Post
      Tiago ZLC?
      Innerforce with slight modifications unless you know what the redesign does for you or Tiago is your favorite player why spend the extra money?

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    14. Top | #9
      Richie is offline
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      Quote Originally Posted by NextLevel View Post
      The Freitas ALC is the new Maze, so to speak. You can try the innerforces as well. Blade choice is not rocket science, it's more like dating and marrying - some get lucky with love at first sight, some hop around and then commit, while others continue to date until they die, or some marry for a while and then break up to do other things.

      The thing is that faster equipment usually requires better touch and faster hand speed, if you have these things then go for it. You aren't going to find a faster blade that is spinnier than a slower blade, leave that dream behind. What faster blades do is allow your strokes to focus on spin, the speed being largely guaranteed by the tangential rebound, but you have to swing really fast and with good timing to get the penetration required. Depending on your precision and swing speed you have options, but a lot of things about feeling are purely personal preference - outerply and feeling of hardness is 100% personal preference as spin is largely from the rubber.

      The main reason to go to composites nowadays is to drive the plastic ball more effortlessly. But again, you need the swing speeds to do this. Also, the larger sweet spot of composites make them play more consistently than wood, which may be a good thing or a bad thing depending on your bent. But Kasumi Ishikawa was using the Innerforce ALC-S, which is not a fast composite blade and using it with Hurricane rubbers for that matter, so again it all comes down to what you are looking for.

      Good luck! No one is going to be giving you a Viscaria for 10 pounds, that's for sure!
      Excellent reply, thank you NL! What you say makes perfect sense. In terms of looping I'm pretty sure mostly any carbon blade will be okay for me. I'm not particularly looking to change for more power as I get good power and spin even away from the table with the acoustic (plus it forces me to really work hard for it). Slightly less effort needed to produce that power and still forcing myself to work for it wouldn't be bad though I guess.

      My concern is more about the loss of spin/less control on serves and possibly touch play.. I'm happy with the spin on serves at the moment with the acoustic but I don't want to see it sacrificed too much. If touch play and serves are affected a lot by using a carbon blade then this would be the reason to go back to acoustic. If this is a matter of just getting used to until I can get to a similar level of control or level of spin in this area then it might be worth it to switch.

      When I switched from my allround classic to the acoustic I had to make adjustments, I suppose carbon will be another step up and some adjustments to be made there too.

      I'll have a think of which blade to actually get, thank you again for the christmas present as that money can now go towards a new blade

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    16. Top | #10
      ajtatosmano2 is offline
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      Quote Originally Posted by NextLevel View Post
      Innerforce with slight modifications unless you know what the redesign does for you or Tiago is your favorite player why spend the extra money?
      Here it's exactly the same price, in some webshop the innerforce is even more expensive.

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    18. Top | #11
      UpSideDownCarl is offline
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      Just another blade thread

      I think the info presented is pretty good.

      The InnerForce blades are excellent. ALC or ZLC. The extra wood before the composite layer makes it so you have the touch play of a wood blade and the composite layer only fully kicks in on bigger impact. You also can generate a lot of spin with them as a result of the depth of the composite layer.

      In addition they do have the Limba top ply and the Limba second ply which gives a lot of wood feeling.

      But if you wanted the composite layer closer to the surface the JM ZLC is really good too. And that one also has a Limba top ply.

      Another way of going if you want more speed but you want to keep the feel of an all wood blade is a 7 ply Hinoki blade. Soooo much grab and spin to go with the speed. The Darker 7P-2A and the 7P-2A.7t are both amazing. I would go with the first. The 7mm thick 7t is REALLY fast.

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      Last edited by UpSideDownCarl; 05-08-2017 at 05:19 PM.
      Spin Everything.

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    20. Top | #12
      laistrogian is offline
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      Innerforce ZLC is actually really good if you want to step up from acoustic. It's still going to have a woody feeling for serve and push because of the carbon being put closer to the core.

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    22. Top | #13
      yogi_bear is offline
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      innerforce alc or timo boll alc for me. at least these 2 blades can still do good spin but if you will ask my opinion on that matter, i would rather suggest you to stay on the acoustic and maybe get a faster rubber that also spins really goodl ike the mxp or if not why not tenergy 05 if your really love to spin
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    23. Top | #14
      laistrogian is offline
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      Quote Originally Posted by yogi_bear View Post
      innerforce alc or timo boll alc for me. at least these 2 blades can still do good spin but if you will ask my opinion on that matter, i would rather suggest you to stay on the acoustic and maybe get a faster rubber that also spins really goodl ike the mxp or if not why not tenergy 05 if your really love to spin
      He's already on T05

    24. Top | #15
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      Quote Originally Posted by laistrogian View Post
      He's already on T05
      in that case maybe MXP if he wants more speed.

    25. Top | #16
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      You may try DHS Fang bo 2(carbon) which is quite similar with long 5, limba outer layer and fiber-carbon(dhs type) would be cheaper and good option.
      Otherwise, innerforce bty is really great, when it compared with viscaria or bty timo alc in terms of feeling and spin.

      However, nowadays i become dhs guy which is another option you may try 7 ply wood blades, such as Long 3 or Bo 1. First one is excellent in terms of speed, spin, feel, control etc. After than acoustic, many carbon may give as as stone wall.

    26. Top | #17
      Richie is offline
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      It's gonna be a difficult decision. Been particularly looking at innerforce alc at the moment.
      And yes I'm using 05 on FH and andro hexer which I got from NL at christmas on BH. I will be changing it to T80 in the future though as I'm finding it a bit slow, similar to the barracuda.

      I spin pretty well at the moment, my problem used to be that I was spinning too much, even balls that were high which shouldve been smashed, I was also coming up on the ball too much trying to do too many slow spinny loops. Now I've changed my stance to be lower and my strokes are more forward. I get good speed on my forehand, but I want to try something different and if it helps me really focus on the spin and not feel like I need to hit into the ball as much with a carbon blade then that sounds good to me. As I said it's serving that I'm more concerned about but hopefully it's just something to get used to as it's still the rubber producing the spin but the blade is more responsive it seems.

      I guess I'll just have to find out for myself and see how it goes
      Thanks for the advice everyone, very helpful as always
      Last edited by Richie; 05-09-2017 at 11:00 AM.

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