Playing against pips or anti spin

Just "count" the spin. You will be good (unless someone is using frictionless pips).

Sent from my Redmi Note 3 using Tapatalk

Goon Squad sez the best bet is to petition the top candidate for the ITTF Presidency to go all-in for a TOTAL BAN of such cheating cheating pips out equipment as a pillar of the campaign, then demand all national associations copy/paste the new rules to bound amature and rec center play.

Anyone believing this crap can look at my post history, which is pretty sound on side of freedom of choice for equipment and playing styles. Heck yeah, losing to an OX pips player near your level should rightfully boil your blood, but nothing we say here will instantly make your match play a lot better, that takes a lot of exposure and deliberate effort/experience just to gain a level.

This video might help you.

CroneOne said:

Hi TTD players.

Raise your hand if you are tired of being defeated by equipment that you haven't trained against enough. I'll raise mine first.
What I'd like to ask is if there is a definitive guide out there for strategy against pips players? From serve to rally.
I understand that the ultimate training is to find
a partner who plays with it and is willing to let you train with them. Another obvious help would be to find a fellow attacker
who knows how to beat them and sponge their knowledge.

Before that though, I'm looking for advice or online articles that can help with the strategy.

Do you know of any good match videos where a 2 winged attacker is playing a BH pip player who also attacks ? i.e. not
a 100% defender.

Thanks

Click to expand...

CroneOne said:

Hi TTD players.

Raise your hand if you are tired of being defeated by equipment that you haven't trained against enough. I'll raise mine first.
What I'd like to ask is if there is a definitive guide out there for strategy against pips players? From serve to rally.
I understand that the ultimate training is to find
a partner who plays with it and is willing to let you train with them. Another obvious help would be to find a fellow attacker
who knows how to beat them and sponge their knowledge.

Before that though, I'm looking for advice or online articles that can help with the strategy.

Do you know of any good match videos where a 2 winged attacker is playing a BH pip player who also attacks ? i.e. not
a 100% defender.

Thanks

Click to expand...

As DerEchte pointed out, it is important to play them with your particular set of skills and see how things shake out. I find that if people play them ling enough with a few general rules in mind based on understanding how pips and anti generally work, they develop their own understanding and approach fairly quickly. You juat need to put in the 50 hours or so, especially against players at lower level. The lower level is important so you can focus on the equipment and not the tricks and skill of the advanced player. Pracrice and hitting with a better player might amount to the same thing. The key is to get an idea of how the equipment behaves and you are unlikely to get that under march pressure against a peer or slightly better player.

The best articles on understanding long pips are written by Greg Letts.

The other thing to realize is that long pips do have issues against heavy levels of power and spin, the thing is that a player at your level using that equipment can often control that level of power and spin so you need to be versatile or you may generate higher levels than you can rally against.

long pimple chopper is easy to deal with but long pimple attacker is not easy, they use back hand to block fast or lift up most of the ball fast, ball comes back very fast and with some sort of back spin,can not chop back and can not attack, don,t know how to return, I block , the ball goes down to the net, I chop back , the ball goes out. I hate long pimple

Short pips: avoid pushes, apply pressure. Long pips (defensive): flat and high-paced to the pips, be prepared to leverage low-spin balls. Vary speed. Be prepared to receive high backspin if you start brush looping, break the defender's rhythm by making them come back to the table every now and then.

Offensive LP: be prepared to counter that chop block, that LP hit through backspin, that LP counterspin. Try flat hits, set the pace - and draw them to the table by slowing down and making them have to hit short, low, no-spin balls. These are often hard.

Twiddlers are a challenge. Stay focused, try to forget about the regular game patterns and just take every single hit by its own merit.

LP struggle against long no spin servers. They fail to return a lot and when return is excellent to loop forward. I use that in critical points.


Sent from my 2014819 using Tapatalk

yuri.saldon said:

LP struggle against long no spin servers. They fail to return a lot and when return is excellent to loop forward. I use that in critical points.


Sent from my 2014819 using Tapatalk

Click to expand...

Not true in all cases. Many lp players have figured out how to cope with that. Some take it off bounce medium pace and jam the middle. Some have the touch to get it short or half long. Some step around fh kill.

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk

Service variety is important for playing LP as well as anything else... Long no spins are great but not if the opponent knows it before you serve. I even tend to get a lot of points by doing short heavy under/no spin.

All I can say for playing LP is just to play it enough so you always understand what spin is coming against you.

I am an OX player (attack and defend), the folks who can beat me are the ones practice/play with me long enough. Many folks are afraid practicing with LP players as they are afraid of screwing up their skills. I found these guys are easy targets.
As someone mentions about serving no spin to LP, it it ok strategy but you have to vary the serve quite a bit just like you play normal rubbers. It means short, long, right, left, no spin, heavy spin but may want to avoid serving a lot of side spin.
Don't be afraid hitting to the LP side. Actually it is the best strategy as many LP players (like me) can only make 50% of the shot when they attack with LP. These attacks are easy to return as they are not as fast as normal rubber. As long as you get used to their weird spin you can get most of them back. I believe it requires a lot of skill/time to play LP but less time to learn how to beat a LP player.

One of the style i struggle most with is the PH attacking with short pips. i don't practise enough against this style, no usual partners playing this way, but its still a common one in Japan. I don't have a great record against this kind of players.

I used to beat SP/PH players when I used normal rubbers. These folks are close table and precise hitter (they hit corners better than us) but the ball are flat or less spin. I think footwork/timing is probably important here if we play mid range/away from table style and the ball drops a bit more compared to normal rubber. You must be consistent enough to drive/loop them back and ready to rally long with them as they will block everything. You must also be able to move them around to rid of their consistency. There are many Youtube videos about world class players playing against good player like He Zhi Wen that you may want to watch.

tropical said:

I used to beat SP/PH players when I used normal rubbers. These folks are close table and precise hitter (they hit corners better than us) but the ball are flat or less spin. I think footwork/timing is probably important here if we play mid range/away from table style and the ball drops a bit more compared to normal rubber. You must be consistent enough to drive/loop them back and ready to rally long with them as they will block everything. You must also be able to move them around to rid of their consistency. There are many Youtube videos about world class players playing against good player like He Zhi Wen that you may want to watch.

Click to expand...

well i do know what they don't like, keep the ball low and spinny. don't attack with too much speed. but usually the guys I play have good serve + strong 3rd ball attack and its difficult to adapt from the start... blocking feels much different against this kind of players - its actually better to counter than to block, and try to take the ball early. Not easy to play them for me, dominating serve/receive is often really key.

My general advise is to spin real heavy right away and ask the questions later, but as Takkyu sez, if the SP opponent has serves that are tricky to read and can be pressure or hit shots by you, that can be tough... especially if they receive well, then there is zero chance to play that way... and like Takkyu sez, you are forced to bang it out. One could always try a soft touch on impact, but when ball is getting hit that hard flat, there really isn't much variation in spin to give back, only pace, these SP hitters close to the table eat those returns up, only a real deep return near endline stops their consistency in attack, but how the heck do you return a fast drive deep consistently under pressure? Unless you are real good, it isn't gunna happen. If one was real good, then one would have better serve/receive and get better chances to get their spin on.

That is why a skilled fast flat hitter can take away the game of a spinner or looper. It comes down to receive. The same can be said for some old-school inverted older J-Pen players, they tend to flat hit crush kill through everything.

Usually these guys serve long, and get ready to hit hard the 3rd. so receiving well those long serves is important.

they are PH, and i'm finding out that usually its better to serve on their FH, if serving on the BH side, its usually better to serve them topspin serves. Usually those guys are very good at pivoting and looping, with their rubber it can be tricky to receive those serves. PH are weak in the BH diagonal. so its also about being able to create the chance to play BH in the diagonal during the rally, either a slow spinny and low opening loop or a BH block when they're hitting a FH from the FH side... for example..


-----

one of the strongest guys in our local league is a young PH attacking LP player. not attacking with OX, it must be around 1-1.2mm ?
He can make tricky blocks with it, but he can also loop the ball consistently and thats a difficult ball to get because its got not the usual pace. it can take some time to adapt and usually its too late... quite an unusual style.

The important info has been said. Part of the reason why the best advice is that you just need experience against pips is, you sort of need to learn what you do well against them and what works for you. There is no silver bullet that just works for everyone.

Another part of the picture is the problem solving and strategy that helps you sort out what works against the specific pips player you are facing. Because that is really part of it. Figuring out in the match what is working and shifting to the next thing before they figure out what you have been using that is effective.

This next piece really goes for playing any player. Some players are strong at the body and at the switching point and weak when you go wide. Other players are weak at the body and strong when you try and keep the ball away from them. Some players are strong over the table and weak if you force them back. Some players are not as good over the table and better if you back them up. Some players, if you can just keep the ball in play, eventually they will just mess up and other players are marathon men and rely on you messing up first. But if you can end the points fast on them, you don't let them get into their groove.

So here is a summary of some of the things needed:

1) you need to have actual experience playing pips players to see what you do well against them and problem solve strategies that work FOR YOU.
2) you need to make in game adjustments to keep your strategy a step or two ahead of your opponents so they can't predict what you are about to do so easily.
3) you need to read your opponent because every pips opponent and every non pips opponent is a little different.

Last detail, pips related:

Decent pips players are continually changing up the spin and the level of spin they give you. And you always have to keep reading that: a) is it heavy, b) is it light, c) is it dead, d) is it top or backspin.

That strategy causes mid-level loopers without enough experience at playing pips players these mid-level loopers are driven crazy and want to pull their hair out wondering why they do the same thing and one ball goes into the net, the next and the next one goes long.

And the answer is: you have to read the spin. There is no substitute for reading the incoming spin.

But another mistake these mid-level loopers are making is that they are making things easy for the pips player by keeping the spin on their loops consistent.

If instead you keep switching the spin--heavy, light, dead, and making them look as similar as possible--the pips player will drop some into the net and float some long or at least high for crushing.

So just like how you need mix your serve spin and placement, you need to mix your loop spin and placement.

You may as well make the pips player work to read the ball too.


Sent from The Subterranean Workshop by Telepathy