Is Tenergy slowly losing its position at the top?

James Krassowski · May 28, 2017

there are many other alternatives nowadays but tenergy is so well known it will still be up there for a while

laistrogian · May 29, 2017

Jaffar Lone said:
It is true, many people have stopped using Tenergy and gone to cheaper alternatives. And yet there are people who just wouldnt let go of the Tenergy series
It seems that Tenergy is the kind of rubber that either you get addicted to, or you just don't bother about it. It is difficult to find another rubber which is exactly like the Tenergy series, there are many rubber series out there that are similar to the Tenergy series, but thats about it. There is as such no 'cheap copy' for the Tenergy series.

UpSideDownCarl said:
This is what I would say:

I like MXP. It is fine and works for me. But the feel on Tenergy is better. And T05 still gets more spin than anything else I can think of. MXP is very close and more than close enough for me.

Here is how I would break things down.

Tenergy's sponge is better than anything else I have felt.
Tenergy's topsheet is okay. Perhaps it could be better. But the rubber, as it is, is still really, better than everything else out there for that kind of rubber.
Tenergy still lasts longer than anything else.
Tenergy does not rely on factory tuning for its performance which is probably why you see a high level of performance for such a long time compared to MXP.

MXP performs just about as well as Tenergy in many areas.
It is faster than T05. But not as spinny.
It has a lower throw angle than T05. This, I think is neutral and whether you like that or not depends on whether you like high or low arc.

Here is the major downside to MXP. The boost effect wears off fairly quickly and then the rubber performs differently.

As far as I am concerned, that is not really a problem. I like the way MXP plays after the boost effect has worn off. But after the boost effect has worn off, it is no longer faster than T05.

To me the main downside to MXP is that the sponge has a weird characteristic that mutes your feeling of the ball. I am fine with it. It took a little while to get used to. Once I got used to it, it did not matter to me. But, I would still have to rate Tenergy a little better because of how good the Tenergy sponge is.

However, I am not going to use Tenergy because of the price. For me, MXP is worth it, because of the very small downsides are not important to me. And the price point is much better for me.

However, I would say, if money is not an issue, then T05, simply comparing rubber to rubber, is just slightly better in most ways than MXP.

Still, MXP is awesome and as close as I have seen to T05 up till now.

Basically what these people have said. I tried different stuffs for my forehand, MX-P included but nothing feels better than the spring sponge. You can really tell the ball soaks into the topsheet and the sponge when you loop, especially in counterlooping

Airoc · May 29, 2017

QWERTY Spin said:
I think the dominance is not broken yet

Not even close to being broken.

QWERTY Spin said:
We should focus this discussion on pro play. Amateur and semi pro play is something completely different where equipment budget plays a role.

You have a point here. Many amateur players say "This rubber is better than that rubber", meaning for them, which is fair enough. But the tenergy dominance over huge parts of the pro player scene doesn´t come from personal preferences but quality and performance.

I have a friend inside our national top 50, easily capable of playing second league. His perspective: "Other rubbers are fine for counter-looping a dozen times, but then the ball might slip and fall off. tenergy (05) gives me confidence for the 13th, 14th and if needed any ball after that."

That means a dozen counter topspins in one rallye, a number some amateur players do not achieve in a lifetime

Of course, even on that level, most points are finished earlier, but it is about the confidence this rubber gives him.

idax9165 · May 29, 2017

Some of the best rubbers, but still overpriced

UpSideDownCarl · May 29, 2017

I guess, one thing that is worth thinking about:

Is there any other rubber where a top player who is sponsored by a different company will consistently use a rubber that is not from their company?

What am I asking about? So many top players who are not sponsored by Butterfly still use Tenergy. You can make the list if you want. But very few top pros, whether sponsored by Butterfly or not, still use Tenergy.

And the people who are saying top pros won't take risks in changing equipment: that sounds pretty silly to me. I am sure they try all the new stuff. But why would they change if nothing is better.

Last year someone posted the equipment of all the pros in the European Championships (2016) from when they tested the rackets. I counted total sheets of rubber. My memory is, these were the top three rubbers:

1) T05 151
2) T64 25
3) MX-P 24

MX-P placed as the third most popular rubber. But T05 was used more than 6x more frequently than MX-P.

And all the people who used MX-P had Tibhar sponsorship. And many many of the players who used T05 did not have Butterfly sponsorship.

You do the math. 151 sheets of T05 to 24 sheets of MX-P.

Those numbers include all rubbers used (FH and BH). More pros in that tournament used T05 as a BH rubber than any other rubber also. But I forgot the number there.

Sent from The Subterranean Workshop by Telepathy

QWERTY Spin · May 29, 2017

UpSideDownCarl said:
Last year someone posted the equipment of all the pros in the European Championships (2016) from when they tested the rackets. I counted total sheets of rubber. My memory is, these were the top three rubbers:

1) T05 151
2) T64 25
3) MX-P 24

MX-P placed as the third most popular rubber. But T05 was used more than 6x more frequently than MX-P.

And all the people who used MX-P had Tibhar sponsorship. And many many of the players who used T05 did not have Butterfly sponsorship.

I looked it up:

Butterfly Tenergy 05, 146
Butterfly Tenergy 05 FX, 22
Tibhar Evolution MX-P, 21
Butterfly Tenergy 64, 9
Butterfly Tenergy 80, 8
Joola Rhyzm-P, 8

I came across that thread a few weeks ago and found it highly interesting that a softer rubber like 05fx was played that often.

However Tenergy was clearly dominating that tournament. And im not sure if changing to plastic ball is enough of an factor for a "better rubber" to replace tenergy in pro play. So far it seems to me like the Ball change is compensated by technical adjustments like banana flicks, less versatile playing styles and higher physical demands. I could figure that a blade change is even higher priority than rubber change since the spin is there with tenergy.
Yet i think that tenergy is more vulnerable to competition now after the changes but i doubt that thicker sponges can cut it.

Tinykin · May 29, 2017

In my opinion, looking at the many and various threads about boosting technique for amateur play, boosting is now as widely accepted as speed glue once was.
Therefore Tenergy does not have the big technical advantage that it once had.

ajtatosmano2 · May 29, 2017

Tinykin said:
In my opinion, looking at the many and various threads about boosting technique for amateur play, boosting is now as widely accepted as speed glue once was.
Therefore Tenergy does not have the big technical advantage that it once had.

You can boost the Tenergy too... ;D

UpSideDownCarl · May 29, 2017

QWERTY Spin said:
I looked it up:

Butterfly Tenergy 05, 146
Butterfly Tenergy 05 FX, 22
Tibhar Evolution MX-P, 21
Butterfly Tenergy 64, 9
Butterfly Tenergy 80, 8
Joola Rhyzm-P, 8

I came across that thread a few weeks ago and found it highly interesting that a softer rubber like 05fx was played that often.

Makes sense my numbers were not exactly correct. It was from memory from over a year ago.

Does show how T05 is more used at the top levels than anything else.

Sent from The Subterranean Workshop by Telepathy

Suga D · May 29, 2017

UpSideDownCarl said:
And the people who are saying top pros won't take risks in changing equipment: that sounds pretty silly to me. I am sure they try all the new stuff.

Oopsi, that could've been me.
I certainly cannot speak for all pros, i only know a few, but the ones i know don't change a lot. Especially NOT in front of important competitions or matches.
But actually no big surprise.
Don't get fooled, these guys and gals make a living from TT, so their rackets are their tools, just like pliers are for a carpenter.

A German phrase says: a craftsman is only as good as his Tools are. [Meaning: can't expect proper results with sh*tty tools]

So changing equipment headlessly could likely cost them those two important and necessary points at 9:9 in the decider.
[Emoji15]
You just don't do that, when your income is related to your success.

But certainly that doesn't mean they don't try out new stuff. They just know when to do it and when it doesn't make sense!

[One of the reasons i think that it was a Hoax when people said Dima changed to H3NEO just before the last worldcup.]

UpSideDownCarl said:
But why would they change if nothing is better...

Sent from The Subterranean Workshop by Telepathy

Exactly!
I remember Simon Huth [German Semi Pro who managed to beat Ruwen Filus at the hassian champs a while ago] was asked on a German Forum once why he doesn't use Hexer HD on his inverted side and he replied that he tried it but to him it just doesn't spin as well as T05 does.

Tinykin · May 29, 2017

ajtatosmano2 said:
You can boost the Tenergy too... ;D

Sure you can. But boosted rubbers tend to equalise themselves. so a boosted Tenergy does not have the technical advantage over a boosted MXP as much as when they are not boosted. If you see what I mean.
Or so say the gurus on here.

UpSideDownCarl · May 29, 2017

Suga D said:
But certainly that doesn't mean they don't try out new stuff. They just know when to do it and when it doesn't make sense!

Yep. That is all I was talking about. If a top pro tries out something for a short time, they can tell if it is good or not.

Suga D said:
Exactly!
I remember Simon Huth [German Semi Pro who managed to beat Ruwen Filus at the hassian champs a while ago] was asked on a German Forum once why he doesn't use Hexer HD on his inverted side and he replied that he tried it but to him it just doesn't spin as well as T05 does.

And I think that is exactly on point and pretty accurate to what so many pros would say. I don't really think anything gets as much spin as T05 and that is often the most important thing to a high level player. They can add the speed because of how good their technique is. But something that gives you that much spin is worth using.

The other rubber that seems to do that: H3.

divan4o · May 30, 2017

Overpriced :-(

jedimasterplk · May 30, 2017

I am not convinced, in fact, in my view, I am certain, that Tenergy is not superior to MXP in the spin department. But thats just my humble opinion)

TTHopeful · May 31, 2017

Nice read and good stats. Hopefully they make stats like this after the wttc and we can compare

Is Tenergy slowly losing its position at the top?

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