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  1. PingBirdPong is offline
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    #81
    Quote Originally Posted by SFF_lib
    I’ve tried 37-40 degree H3 on my Darker 90. My feeling is that 37 degree can be fast enough but give you lots of good feel.

    39-40 degree really kills the good feel of hinoki.

    Try 41 degrees unboosted.🤔

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    Modestly, Leo

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    #82
    Quote Originally Posted by PingBirdPong

    Try 41 degrees unboosted.

    Only RSM can engage that hardness

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    #83
    Quote Originally Posted by UpSideDownCarl
    Good explanation of what you are trying to understand. Thank you.

    So, what you are looking for is the qualities of Hinoki as a wood. I can assure you that the Hinoki/Carbon blade you tried which was very stiff, was not stiff because of the Hinoki. Hinoki is a kind of unique. It is soft and springy. It has more gears than most woods. Like, you could have a blade that is all Hinoki that is slow on touch shots, a moderate pace on moderate power shots and a rocket launcher when you spin the hell out of the ball (Note, I did not say "when you smash"). Also, when Hinoki is paired with Carbon, for some reason, it usually ends up feeling wildly faster than I would have thought. When you spin the ball, Hinoki seems to grab the ball harder than any other wood I have tried. But to me, it does not seem that well suited to direct contact (except when you have one of those 10mm thick blades).

    As a result, Hinoki is the kind of wood that people usually EITHER Love or Hate.

    For what you are looking at, I would think about finding a 5 or 7 ply Hinoki blade to test for 5-15 min so you can see if you are in the Love or Not Love category with Hinoki. If you do that, I would test with a blade that is ALL Hinoki (all plies in the blade are Hinoki rather than mixed with other woods).

    As far as Hinoki in thinner blades it is decently flexible. When something is 10mm thick, it is hard for me to imagine that it would be flexible. But Hinoki is still soft and grabs the ball like nothing else.....so, those things, soft and grabbing the ball, make it great for looping, even in one of those 10mm thick One Ply blades.

    By the way, it is worth noting that there are several people on TTDaily who own ONE Ply Hinoki blades for years without ever having the blade break. So, it is not that they all break. Many don't break. But because the blade is a One Ply, you have to do your best to be extra careful with it and someone not knowing this, and spending several hundred dollars (Euros....Pounds....or what ever currency) without knowing that and having the blade break after a few weeks or months would be terrible. So, it is not that they will break. It is that you may WANT to think of a One Ply Hinoki blade as different than a blade made of multiple plies. That a One Ply Hinoki blade is an investment, a work of art, and a blade to care for as if it were delicate, so that, it CAN last you a lifetime of enjoyment as you play with it.
    Thank you very much for your helpful and thorough answer. Truly excellent 👍.

    I would just like to ask one more thing…what sort of rubbers do you think suit 1 ply hinoki JPen? I have heard that Japanese pen holders like very ‘all round’ offensive rubbers (presumably ones that aren’t too bouncy in the short game, outstanding for forehand looping and good for lobbing and backhand tpb punching).

    Is 1 ply hinoki ‘picky’ about rubbers?

    Which rubbers would fit the bill would you think? Nittaku Fastarc G1? Would any new ‘tacky tensors’ like Rakza Z work? Presumably very tacky, hard Chinese rubbers can be ruled out, as it is not easy to use them for lobbing, punching and backhand?

    It’s quite hard to know, because there aren’t many famous players to observe or regular players to advise.

    Thank you very much for your advice.

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    #84
    Quote Originally Posted by BlackCat510
    Thank you very much for your helpful and thorough answer. Truly excellent .

    I would just like to ask one more thing…what sort of rubbers do you think suit 1 ply hinoki JPen? I have heard that Japanese pen holders like very ‘all round’ offensive rubbers (presumably ones that aren’t too bouncy in the short game, outstanding for forehand looping and good for lobbing and backhand tpb punching).

    Is 1 ply hinoki ‘picky’ about rubbers?

    Which rubbers would fit the bill would you think? Nittaku Fastarc G1? Would any new ‘tacky tensors’ like Rakza Z work? Presumably very tacky, hard Chinese rubbers can be ruled out, as it is not easy to use them for lobbing, punching and backhand?

    It’s quite hard to know, because there aren’t many famous players to observe or regular players to advise.

    Thank you very much for your advice.
    Single ply hinoki Jpen is very versatile. But in general Jpen favours a speed game. That’s why my 10yo Darker SP90 pairs extremely well with porous Japanese rubber such as T05.

    You want to pair with Japanese rubbers because Jpen is made for deadly 3rd ball attack and mid distance rally.

    However, soft tacky rubber has worked well on my Darker. I’ve tried H3-50 and it works beautifully.

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  5. UpSideDownCarl is online now
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    #85
    Yeah. It was years ago. But when I got to try a Darker Speed 90, the rubber was T05 and to me, that felt amazing.

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  6. Gozo is offline
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    #86
    My personal experience with my Darker Speed 90 is as follows:

    1. I tried hard tacky H3 on FH but I find that there is no so much flex and rather stiff making my looping game suffer.

    2. Next I tried Donic Bluefire M1 as FH, which felt better especially flat hitting & smashes, however I prefer playing with tacky rubber and the looping game, so currently my DS90 sits pretty in my drawer as a collectors item similar to a work of art.

    3. Next I will use this analogy: My Stiga All Round may not be a blade that impresses people. It is like driving my dad's old Corolla or Civic but it does it job wonderfully without pomp nor pageantry and I do not have to worry about knocking it or dropping it. DS90 is like that shinny Rolls Royce that you let it sit pretty in the garage to impress friends during party. You are too scare to drive regularly b'coz any damage or dent will be very expensive to repair.

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    Last edited by Gozo; 12-13-2021 at 02:55 AM.

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    #87
    Should single ply hinoki blades be sealed (since there is no top veneer, I can imagine they might not need to be?) Would sealing make the blade too hard?

    Also, do jpen bats need a special case to account for their larger size and square shape? Which cases do you use for yours?

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    #88
    Quote Originally Posted by SFF_lib
    I’ve tried 37-40 degree H3 on my Darker 90. My feeling is that 37 degree can be fast enough but give you lots of good feel.

    39-40 degree really kills the good feel of hinoki.

    That's exactly what I am going to use on my DS90


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    #89
    Quote Originally Posted by BlackCat510
    Should single ply hinoki blades be sealed (since there is no top veneer, I can imagine they might not need to be?) Would sealing make the blade too hard?

    Also, do jpen bats need a special case to account for their larger size and square shape? Which cases do you use for yours?

    Theoretically, sealing would definitely affect the hardness of the blade. That is, making it harder. However, the real question here would be "would that affect your game at your current level?"

    No offense and i don't know what level you are on. But I seriously doubt it it would make a difference for non-pros. A player like Liu Guoliang even refused to switch to another Clipper when his blade split and it took him months to get that old clipper glued by some real professionals in China LOL. A player like me, USTT rating 1600-1800 player, I won't even tell that much of a difference when I switched from Viscaria to Clipper (well the feelings are different but my games were the same LOL)

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    #90
    Thank you very much to everyone in this thread, your has been very helpful, especially @taniame and @UpSideDownCarl and @SFF_lib.

    I have now bought an Xiom Power Hinoki and I am very happy thank you 👍

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  11. Suga D is offline
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    #91
    Quote Originally Posted by SFF_lib
    I’ve tried 37-40 degree H3 on my Darker 90. My feeling is that 37 degree can be fast enough but give you lots of good feel.

    39-40 degree really kills the good feel of hinoki.

    Not from my experience too. Mine is a looping machine with my 41° H3 and T05. But as tinykin wrote: it can take a minute to adapt. At first all my loops went long.
    But now: just love it to the bone.

    And that would be my final advice for blackcat. I totally understand where Carl is coming from, but if single-ply Hinoki sounds tempting, what you're waiting for? Wanna wait for the next life? Life's too short, so why wait for the next chance? If you see this as an opportunity, then go for it. It's not ridiculously expensive. Heck, there are people coughing up 150$ and more for Vis, TB ALC, Hugo SAL and whatyoucallit. A single-ply might be a bit more fragile, but a Vis can break as well.
    just my last 2ct on this.

    [Edit: just saw that now you got your blade. Good.]

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    Last edited by Suga D; 2 Weeks Ago at 12:15 AM.
    Instrument of choice:
    Blade: Afrobro´s custom made handcrafted
    3ply Hinoki
    FH: BLACKRUBBER
    BH: REDRUBBER

    Mind over Matter


    Backspin for Backspin even while I'm rappin' (Lord Doitall - Lords of the Underground)

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    #92
    Quote Originally Posted by Suga D

    And that would be my final advice for blackcat. I totally understand where Carl is coming from, but if single-ply Hinoki sounds tempting, what you're waiting for? Wanna wait for the next life? Life's too short, so why wait for the next chance? If you see this as an opportunity, then go for it. It's not ridiculously expensive. Heck, there are people coughing up 150$ and more for Vis, TB ALC, Hugo SAL and whatyoucallit. A single-ply might be a bit more fragile, but a Vis can break as well.
    just my last 2ct on this.

    [Edit: just saw that now you got your blade. Good.]

    That’s basically the attitude I had when buying it — blades are one off buys, so why not?

    And I love it. I’m definitely a convert to single ply hinoki and to Jpen — never before have I felt so much power and so much control.

    Thank you very much for your help, no more equipment junkie-ing for me!

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  13. UpSideDownCarl is online now
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    #93
    Quote Originally Posted by BlackCat510
    That’s basically the attitude I had when buying it — blades are one off buys, so why not?

    And I love it. I’m definitely a convert to single ply hinoki and to Jpen — never before have I felt so much power and so much control.

    Thank you very much for your help, no more equipment junkie-ing for me!

    As long as someone knows that there are risks, I am not sure anything feels as good as a one ply Hinoki blade.

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    #94
    Quote Originally Posted by BlackCat510
    That’s basically the attitude I had when buying it — blades are one off buys, so why not?

    And I love it. I’m definitely a convert to single ply hinoki and to Jpen — never before have I felt so much power and so much control.

    Thank you very much for your help, no more equipment junkie-ing for me!
    I started jpen in 2015. I now play w968 sh but I still play jpen ever now and then.

    I agree with you. The single ply hinoki has a indescribable good feel that nothing in this world can replicate.

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    #95
    Quote Originally Posted by BlackCat510
    Should single ply hinoki blades be sealed (since there is no top veneer, I can imagine they might not need to be?) Would sealing make the blade too hard?

    Also, do jpen bats need a special case to account for their larger size and square shape? Which cases do you use for yours?

    any racket case sold in the market should be able to fit a jpen racket just fine

    i just use a cheap racket case to store mine


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    #96
    Long time ago I was playing with Btfly Kiso Hinoki V and Kiso Hinoki VII.While these are not one-ply they have special feel and properties due to being pure hinoki blades.But they also have limitations.I'm guessing one-ply has limitations that affect very advanced players and that's why top players rarely use it.

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    #97
    Quote Originally Posted by BlackCat510
    Thank you very much to everyone in this thread, your has been very helpful, especially @taniame and @UpSideDownCarl and @SFF_lib.I have now bought an Xiom Power Hinoki and I am very happy thank you 👍

    I have a Xiom Power Hinoki with Friendship 729 802-40 max thickness short pips with the 35 degree super soft sponge and it works beautifully as a hitting blocking machine. Cut a Grass D.Tecs OX to fit the tiny space at the backhand and it's a fun setup of short and long pips. Still have my Butterfly Senkoh 1 around with Sanwei Target National on it - plan on putting short pips there to see if it works as well the Xiom blade.

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    Last edited by The_TT_Bat_Guy; 3 Days Ago at 08:25 PM.

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    #98
    Quote Originally Posted by The_TT_Bat_Guy

    I have a Xiom Power Hinoki with Friendship 729 802-40 max thickness short pips with the 35 degree super soft sponge and it works beautifully as a hitting blocking machine. Cut a Grass D.Tecs OX to fit the tiny space at the backhand and it's a fun setup of short and long pips. Still have my Butterfly Senkoh 1 around with Sanwei Target National on it - plan on putting short pips there to see if it works as well the Xiom blade.

    Nice! I’m using it with a Nittaku Fastarc G1 max and I’m beginning to play a jpen loop game, vaguely similar to the sort of game Ryu seung min plays. It’s working great!

    Did you peel the black paper off the back to put the long pips on? Or did you just glue it on over it.

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