Back to Forum
Page 3 of 5 FirstFirst 12345 LastLast
Results 41 to 60 of 97
  1. lVegita is offline
    says Nothing to see here
     
    Senior TTD Member 574 531
    lVegita's Avatar
    lVegita is offline
    says Nothing to see here
     
    Senior TTD Member 531 574
    #41
    Quote Originally Posted by UpSideDownCarl
    Quote Originally Posted by UpSideDownCarl
    Quote Originally Posted by UpSideDownCarl
    You don't want the Speed-90. That would be more for hanging on your wall! Why do I say that?


    Well, first off, it is 9mm thick which is a bit too thick for serving shakehand. Second, it is heavier than you want even though that would not bother Der_Echte. Third, it is one ply which means it plays AMAZING and will get you addicted to a blade you can't realistically use in match play because it will feel better than anything and everything you have ever felt for mid-distance looping. And the fourth reason is that, because it is ONE PLY, it will break really easily and for no apparent reason. The wood splits along the grain of the plies very easily and then, that is a lot of loot down the tubes.
    That is me quoting myself from the post that Suga D made quoting me.
    This thread is old. Suga is quoting me from a thread that is even older.


    /oldmeme

    The Following 2 Users Like lVegita's Post:

    nivekkan and Simas


  2. nivekkan is offline
    This user has no status.
     
    Established TTD Member 30 161
    nivekkan's Avatar
    nivekkan is offline
    This user has no status.
     
    Established TTD Member 161 30
    #42
    Nice

  3. nivekkan is offline
    This user has no status.
     
    Established TTD Member 30 161
    nivekkan's Avatar
    nivekkan is offline
    This user has no status.
     
    Established TTD Member 161 30
    #43
    Quote Originally Posted by UpSideDownCarl
    You really are not getting it. Try to think about what 1 ply means. Maybe get a piece of wood that is one solid ply and look at it. .
    Ture. I really didn't get it. I knew that it is "easy" to break but not to a degree where I can derive a meaningful conclusion. I hope I do have raw material of a 1 ply hinoki to play around to test its durability but I can't find any online let alone local shops. Even if there is, it would be too expensive for this kind of testing.

    I knew that if you press on it, it breaks because...it's Wood. But you won't accidentally press on it if you take precautions. However, I didn't know that it also breaks just by accidentally dropping it which is definitely comparable to a full power stroke and I hit the table sometimes. It happens rarely but I expect my blades to it not break for years so 1 ply hinoki is likely to disappoint me.

    So thx. That is enough for me to decide no not buying one before I have owned several blades and have enough experience to decide for myself again.

  4. Tinykin is offline
    says , "the older I get, the craftier I become"
     
    Elite TTD Member 1,098 1,347
    Tinykin's Avatar
    Tinykin is offline
    says , "the older I get, the craftier I become"
     
    Elite TTD Member 1,347 1,098
    #44
    I have been using 1-ply blades for about 12years. They do break, as in split in half. I have had two broken blades, but the funny thing is that I don't remember when they broke. You don't notice it till long after as the rubbers hold it together.
    The good thing is that the break is quite clean so that a decent woodworker can put them back together with no discernible effect on play.
    BTW, Stiga blades of the 70's-80's also had a reputation for breaking at the neck. In fact, all-wood blades tend to break or weaken at the neck. I have seen at least 4 or 5 instances in the last few years. Comparing some of my old blades vs newer blades, it's obvious that manufacturers place the handles further up on the blade face.
    I've never seen a composite blade break.

    The Following 3 Users Like Tinykin's Post:

    nivekkan, Suga D and 1 other

    Last edited by Tinykin; 10-02-2019 at 03:59 PM.
    My table tennis club in Bristol, England
    http://bristol-cssc-tabletennis.weebly.com/

  5. UpSideDownCarl is offline
    says I like to hit Heavy Topspin
     
    Super Moderator 16,224 14,731
    UpSideDownCarl's Avatar
    UpSideDownCarl is offline
    says I like to hit Heavy Topspin
     
    Super Moderator 14,731 16,224
    #45
    Quote Originally Posted by Tinykin
    I have been using 1-ply blades for about 12years. They do break, as in split in half. I have had two broken blades, but the funny thing is that I don't remember when they broke. You don't notice it till long after as the rubbers hold it together.
    The good thing is that the break is quite clean so that a decent woodworker can put them back together with no discernible effect on play.
    BTW, Stiga blades of the 70's-80's also had a reputation for breaking at the neck. In fact, all-wood blades tend to break or weaken at the neck. I have seen at least 4 or 5 instances in the last few years. Comparing some of my old blades vs newer blades, it's obvious that manufacturers place the handles further up on the blade face.
    I've never seen a composite blade break.
    Lots of Stiga blades still break. They are almost like disposable blades. But they do feel good.

    And you are correct in everything you say about 1 ply Hinoki blades. The question is, is the person using one willing to deal with that. You obviously are and that is cool. But I was trying to figure out how to get Nivekkan to understand what we are talking about with a blade splitting in two and being easy to break.

    The Following User Likes UpSideDownCarl's Post:

    Suga D

    Last edited by UpSideDownCarl; 10-02-2019 at 04:53 PM.
    Setup 1: Blade by Nate: Vortex Spin Machine, FH Evolution MX-K, BH Evolution FX-P
    Setup 2: OSP Virtuoso Plus, FH Rasanter R 48, BH Rasanter R 48
    Spin is Everything

  6. JustANoob is offline
    This user has no status.
     
    Established TTD Member 70 153
    J
    JustANoob is offline
    This user has no status.
     
    Established TTD Member 153 70
    #46
    Bit of a silly question considering the thickness of one of these blades, but hinoki is weird so just gonna ask anyway.

    In your opinions which has more flex:

    Nittaku Miyabi or Viollin ?

    The Following User Likes JustANoob's Post:

    nivekkan


  7. UpSideDownCarl is offline
    says I like to hit Heavy Topspin
     
    Super Moderator 16,224 14,731
    UpSideDownCarl's Avatar
    UpSideDownCarl is offline
    says I like to hit Heavy Topspin
     
    Super Moderator 14,731 16,224
    #47
    Quote Originally Posted by JustANoob
    Bit of a silly question considering the thickness of one of these blades, but hinoki is weird so just gonna ask anyway.

    In your opinions which has more flex:

    Nittaku Miyabi or Viollin ?
    Violin is 5.4 mm thick. Miyabi seems to be 9mm thick. It is hard for me to imagine a 9mm blade would be more flexible than a 5.4 mm blade. But I don't really know.

    The Following 3 Users Like UpSideDownCarl's Post:

    JustANoob, nivekkan and 1 other

    Setup 1: Blade by Nate: Vortex Spin Machine, FH Evolution MX-K, BH Evolution FX-P
    Setup 2: OSP Virtuoso Plus, FH Rasanter R 48, BH Rasanter R 48
    Spin is Everything

  8. ttpshot is offline
    This user has no status.
     
    Advanced TTD Member 560 386
    T
    ttpshot is offline
    This user has no status.
     
    Advanced TTD Member 386 560
    #48
    My Cypress-S withstood occational use (since I dont use J-Pen) for 10 years before it snapped in half. The skill level doesn't really matter as plenty of top penhold players prefer mult ply hinoki blade. It's more a matter of how much you love that crisp, springy 1 ply hinoki feel and how much you're willing to pay for it. Even if you decide not to use it, you can at least hang it on your wall as they're so aesthetically pleasing!

    The Following 3 Users Like ttpshot's Post:

    nivekkan, Suga D and 1 other


  9. SFF_lib is offline
    This user has no status.
     
    Elite TTD Member 872 1,348
    SFF_lib's Avatar
    SFF_lib is offline
    This user has no status.
     
    Elite TTD Member 1,348 872
    #49
    I have switched from PH to SH. I am going to sell all my penhold blades but the Darker Speed 90. Single-ply hinoki are just beautiful to look at.

    The Following 3 Users Like SFF_lib's Post:

    nivekkan, Suga D and 1 other


  10. momus is offline
    This user has no status.
     
    TTD Member 8 20
    M
    momus is offline
    This user has no status.
     
    TTD Member 20 8
    #50
    Name:  IMG_20190122_223847 (1).jpg
Views: 400
Size:  86.0 KB

    I'm using intensely Darker Speed 90 ST (9 mm, 86 gr) by last January and had no issues so far, allthough I had a fair ammount of accidental hits on the table or even falling from my hands 2-3 times. Of cource I use a hard case to store it. An I have a spare brand new in the box!
    My latest bats before was Liu Shiwen ZLF (very nice) and Apolonia ZLC (also nice but low control).
    But.. what so many people say about the "feel" of hinoki is absolutely true! Love at first touch! It's also rocket fast when you hit hard, slow in passive game and highly controllable. And in compination with Dignics (a great match for this wood) it's a real weapon. Whoever tried it (fellow players and coaches) really-really liked it. But of course the whole setup is somewhat "heavy" on the pocket

    The Following 4 Users Like momus's Post:

    nivekkan, Suga D and 2 others

    Last edited by momus; 10-03-2019 at 11:46 AM.

  11. nivekkan is offline
    This user has no status.
     
    Established TTD Member 30 161
    nivekkan's Avatar
    nivekkan is offline
    This user has no status.
     
    Established TTD Member 161 30
    #51
    Quote Originally Posted by momus
    Name:  IMG_20190122_223847 (1).jpg
Views: 400
Size:  86.0 KB
    what so many people say about the "feel" of hinoki is absolutely true! Love at first touch! It's also rocket fast when you hit hard, slow in passive game and highly controllable. And in compination with Dignics (a great match for this wood) it's a real weapon. Whoever tried it (fellow players and coaches) really-really liked it.
    Nice information. I want to own one at some point just to understand the "feeling" once I can handle a rocket fast blade in high gear.
    I can already imagine the look of your face the second it hits something.

    The Following User Likes nivekkan's Post:

    Suga D


  12. UpSideDownCarl is offline
    says I like to hit Heavy Topspin
     
    Super Moderator 16,224 14,731
    UpSideDownCarl's Avatar
    UpSideDownCarl is offline
    says I like to hit Heavy Topspin
     
    Super Moderator 14,731 16,224
    #52
    Quote Originally Posted by momus
    Name:  IMG_20190122_223847 (1).jpg
Views: 400
Size:  86.0 KB

    I'm using intensely Darker Speed 90 ST (9 mm, 86 gr) by last January and had no issues so far, allthough I had a fair ammount of accidental hits on the table or even falling from my hands 2-3 times. Of cource I use a hard case to store it. An I have a spare brand new in the box!
    My latest bats before was Liu Shiwen ZLF (very nice) and Apolonia ZLC (also nice but low control).
    But.. what so many people say about the "feel" of hinoki is absolutely true! Love at first touch! It's also rocket fast when you hit hard, slow in passive game and highly controllable. And in compination with Dignics (a great match for this wood) it's a real weapon. Whoever tried it (fellow players and coaches) really-really liked it. But of course the whole setup is somewhat "heavy" on the pocket
    As I said, nothing, nothing, nothing feels anywhere close to as good.

    The Following User Likes UpSideDownCarl's Post:

    Suga D

    Setup 1: Blade by Nate: Vortex Spin Machine, FH Evolution MX-K, BH Evolution FX-P
    Setup 2: OSP Virtuoso Plus, FH Rasanter R 48, BH Rasanter R 48
    Spin is Everything

  13. JustANoob is offline
    This user has no status.
     
    Established TTD Member 70 153
    J
    JustANoob is offline
    This user has no status.
     
    Established TTD Member 153 70
    #53
    Quote Originally Posted by UpSideDownCarl
    Violin is 5.4 mm thick. Miyabi seems to be 9mm thick. It is hard for me to imagine a 9mm blade would be more flexible than a 5.4 mm blade. But I don't really know.
    No,no, that makes perfect sense, just wanted to be sure nobody was gonna respond the opposite, was gonna be really surprised.

    The Following User Likes JustANoob's Post:

    UpSideDownCarl


  14. Suga D is offline
    says Mind over matter
     
    Master TTD Member 3,912 3,233
    Suga D's Avatar
    Suga D is offline
    says Mind over matter
     
    Master TTD Member 3,233 3,912

    User Info Menu

    #54
    Quote Originally Posted by UpSideDownCarl
    You really are not getting it. Try to think about what 1 ply means. Maybe get a piece of wood that is one solid ply and look at it.




    That is me quoting myself from the post that Suga D made quoting me.

    This thread is old. Suga is quoting me from a thread that is even older.

    One ply blades can break in your bag. They can break because something rests on top of them. They can break because they were pressed against something else. So, not impact like banging into the table. But pressure on the blade face of any kind.

    Part of this has to do with why they began to make plywood in the first place. In plywood they line up the grains so, in the first layer the grain is going vertical, the next layer it is going horizontal, the next vertical, the next horizontal. This makes the wood stronger, because it is not subject to the weakness that exists if there is just a SINGLE PLY. It is easy to split wood along the grain.

    If you took a 6mm 7 ply blade in your hands and tried to bend it, it would be hard to break. If you did that to a single ply blade and you were bending along the line of the grain, the blade would be very easy to split in half BECAUSE THERE IS ONLY ONE PLY.

    But I think this goes to the idea of someone needing to philosophically examine theory without trying something. Go try a One Ply Hinoki blade, see how that 10mm thickness feels, and see how long it lasts before it breaks. If you are really careful and store it in a case that is unbendable, you may be able to keep it from breaking for quite a while. But definitely don't put it in your bag unless it is in a case that is solid, like, maybe steel, and unbendable, but with foam inside so the blade won't slide around. Do they make those cases any more?

    The other thing about how they break, since they split down the grain, you can have rubber on, it can be broken and you can not even realize it is broken; and you start playing and start wondering what is wrong with it. And then you take the rubber off and it falls into 3 or 4 pieces.

    Now this would happen with almost any kind of ONE PLY blade. But Hinoki is soft and particularly delicate in certain ways. So, when you are talking one ply Hinoki, that just makes it more possible.

    I know a guy who used to use them in tournaments and that kept happening to him. He was using a Darker Speed 90. After it happened the first time, he started carrying around a spare for in case. After it happened 5 more times, (that is about $1,750.00 in blades), he decided to change to a more practical blade.

    Where can I subscribe to this? I can only agree 100%

    Here´s one of my latest experiences:

    Afrobro has made three Hinoki blades for me. A three ply, a five ply and a seven-ply. I started out with the 5-ply and it felt like a dream, but since I´m quite used to 3-ply Hinoki blades the 5-ply felt a bit more stiff than I was used to, so I glued up the 7-ply and the 3-ply as well to see which I like most. The 7-ply is even more stiff but has got excellent control and dwell time for its speed but was also a bit different than that of my old Hinoki blades.

    But the three-ply was exactly what I was looking for. Afrobro has built a real rocket-launcher there, with a quite thick core ply and 2 slim outer plies with perfect speed, perfect control perfect everything. A real monster. My blade. Finally. Don´t get me wrong, I could easily swap between those blades and will adapt to each within minutes since they all feel familiar, but the three ply is the real killer.

    But sadly during a league match when things got heated and the score was close it accidentally slipped from my sweating hand and fell very unfortunate and the core ply broke in pieces without me realizing at first.
    After a few days I noticed something felt odd and found the cracked up spot.

    A blade expert I know then told me it was close to impossible to repair but since he knew how much I loved it he gave it a go and replaced those broken bits


    and since he doesn´t really enjoy playing hinoki he also gave me an old single-ply hinoki which now has become my main blade.

    He also told me that on aliexpress you can find plenty affordable single-ply hinoki blades from companies like Kokutaku, Sanwei and other known brands for very reasonable prices. Usually these blades range from €100.00 (Nittaku Miyabi) upwards to easily $200 (Tibhar H-1-9) and more. So if this single ply´s gonna crack one day I just should order from there, which I´ll most likely gonna try out.

    Last edited by Suga D; 12-06-2021 at 07:08 PM. Reason: pics added
    Instrument of choice:
    Blade: Afrobro´s custom made handcrafted
    3ply Hinoki
    FH: BLACKRUBBER
    BH: REDRUBBER

    Mind over Matter


    Backspin for Backspin even while I'm rappin' (Lord Doitall - Lords of the Underground)

  15. BlackCat510 is offline
    This user has no status.
     
    TTD Member 19 23
    BlackCat510's Avatar
    BlackCat510 is offline
    This user has no status.
     
    TTD Member 23 19

    User Info Menu


    Jul 2021
    UK
    23
    19
    0
    Read 0 Reviews
    #55
    Quote Originally Posted by UpSideDownCarl
    Lots of Stiga blades still break. They are almost like disposable blades. But they do feel good.

    And you are correct in everything you say about 1 ply Hinoki blades. The question is, is the person using one willing to deal with that. You obviously are and that is cool. But I was trying to figure out how to get Nivekkan to understand what we are talking about with a blade splitting in two and being easy to break.

    What action causes these blades to so frequently break? Is it dropping it, banging it on the table or something else? I heard that this splitting can be caused by the blade being bent somehow, would you say that’s the reason? How can this blade splitting be prevented?

    I’m interested in perhaps getting a 1-ply hinoki jpen blade, but durability would be important.

  16. SFF_lib is offline
    This user has no status.
     
    Elite TTD Member 872 1,348
    SFF_lib's Avatar
    SFF_lib is offline
    This user has no status.
     
    Elite TTD Member 1,348 872
    #56
    Quote Originally Posted by BlackCat510
    What action causes these blades to so frequently break? Is it dropping it, banging it on the table or something else? I heard that this splitting can be caused by the blade being bent somehow, would you say that’s the reason? How can this blade splitting be prevented?

    I’m interested in perhaps getting a 1-ply hinoki jpen blade, but durability would be important.
    Invest in the top brand such as BTY and Darker. My Darker Speed 90 has lasted for 6 years. Lots of dents but no break.

    The Following User Likes SFF_lib's Post:

    Suga D


  17. UpSideDownCarl is offline
    says I like to hit Heavy Topspin
     
    Super Moderator 16,224 14,731
    UpSideDownCarl's Avatar
    UpSideDownCarl is offline
    says I like to hit Heavy Topspin
     
    Super Moderator 14,731 16,224
    #57
    Quote Originally Posted by UpSideDownCarl
    You really are not getting it. Try to think about what 1 ply means. Maybe get a piece of wood that is one solid ply and look at it.




    That is me quoting myself from the post that Suga D made quoting me.

    This thread is old. Suga is quoting me from a thread that is even older.

    One ply blades can break in your bag. They can break because something rests on top of them. They can break because they were pressed against something else. So, not impact like banging into the table. But pressure on the blade face of any kind.

    Part of this has to do with why they began to make plywood in the first place. In plywood they line up the grains so, in the first layer the grain is going vertical, the next layer it is going horizontal, the next vertical, the next horizontal. This makes the wood stronger, because it is not subject to the weakness that exists if there is just a SINGLE PLY. It is easy to split wood along the grain.

    If you took a 6mm 7 ply blade in your hands and tried to bend it, it would be hard to break. If you did that to a single ply blade and you were bending along the line of the grain, the blade would be very easy to split in half BECAUSE THERE IS ONLY ONE PLY.

    But I think this goes to the idea of someone needing to philosophically examine theory without trying something. Go try a One Ply Hinoki blade, see how that 10mm thickness feels, and see how long it lasts before it breaks. If you are really careful and store it in a case that is unbendable, you may be able to keep it from breaking for quite a while. But definitely don't put it in your bag unless it is in a case that is solid, like, maybe steel, and unbendable, but with foam inside so the blade won't slide around. Do they make those cases any more?

    The other thing about how they break, since they split down the grain, you can have rubber on, it can be broken and you can not even realize it is broken; and you start playing and start wondering what is wrong with it. And then you take the rubber off and it falls into 3 or 4 pieces.

    Now this would happen with almost any kind of ONE PLY blade. But Hinoki is soft and particularly delicate in certain ways. So, when you are talking one ply Hinoki, that just makes it more possible.

    I know a guy who used to use them in tournaments and that kept happening to him. He was using a Darker Speed 90. After it happened the first time, he started carrying around a spare for in case. After it happened 5 more times, (that is about $1,750.00 in blades), he decided to change to a more practical blade.
    Black Cat, above, I have quoted something I wrote earlier in this thread. Hopefully that post that I am quoting above can explain some of what you are trying to ask in the post I am quoting below.

    If you want to understand why a one ply blade is more easy to break than most blades you would have to understand the reason ply wood is made and what the difference is between a blade with 3, 5 or 7 plies where the wood grain for each ply is lined up perpendicular to the next ply so one layer, the grain would be vertical and the next layer the grain would be horizontal.
    Quote Originally Posted by BlackCat510
    What action causes these blades to so frequently break? Is it dropping it, banging it on the table or something else? I heard that this splitting can be caused by the blade being bent somehow, would you say that’s the reason? How can this blade splitting be prevented?

    I’m interested in perhaps getting a 1-ply hinoki jpen blade, but durability would be important.
    Setup 1: Blade by Nate: Vortex Spin Machine, FH Evolution MX-K, BH Evolution FX-P
    Setup 2: OSP Virtuoso Plus, FH Rasanter R 48, BH Rasanter R 48
    Spin is Everything

  18. PingBirdPong is offline
    says Verified Cheater, Banned by ITTF :)
     
    Advanced TTD Member 123 237
    PingBirdPong's Avatar
    PingBirdPong is offline
    says Verified Cheater, Banned by ITTF :)
     
    Advanced TTD Member 237 123
    #58
    Quote Originally Posted by BlackCat510
    What action causes these blades to so frequently break? Is it dropping it, banging it on the table or something else? I heard that this splitting can be caused by the blade being bent somehow, would you say that’s the reason? How can this blade splitting be prevented?

    I’m interested in perhaps getting a 1-ply hinoki jpen blade, but durability would be important.

    For Stiga and other all woods, the neck( the connecting part between the head and the handle) will break easily, either by force or wear. After a few hundred thousand backhand flicks, you’ll notice the handle tries to come off and the neck will feel wobbly. This is because the neck is the thinnest non reinforced part of the blade. If one does not fix the handle, and keeps playing violently, the blade may snap.

    Modestly, Leo

  19. SFF_lib is offline
    This user has no status.
     
    Elite TTD Member 872 1,348
    SFF_lib's Avatar
    SFF_lib is offline
    This user has no status.
     
    Elite TTD Member 1,348 872
    #59
    Quote Originally Posted by PingBirdPong

    For Stiga and other all woods, the neck( the connecting part between the head and the handle) will break easily, either by force or wear. After a few hundred thousand backhand flicks, you’ll notice the handle tries to come off and the neck will feel wobbly. This is because the neck is the thinnest non reinforced part of the blade. If one does not fix the handle, and keeps playing violently, the blade may snap.

    Sorry for sidetracking, apparently that’s why the neck of the new Cyberspace blade is strengthened due to more weight near the head.

  20. BlackCat510 is offline
    This user has no status.
     
    TTD Member 19 23
    BlackCat510's Avatar
    BlackCat510 is offline
    This user has no status.
     
    TTD Member 23 19

    User Info Menu


    Jul 2021
    UK
    23
    19
    0
    Read 0 Reviews
    #60
    Quote Originally Posted by SFF_lib
    Invest in the top brand such as BTY and Darker. My Darker Speed 90 has lasted for 6 years. Lots of dents but no break.

    Thank you very much. Would you consider Xiom as a brand to be trusted in this respect? I’m looking perhaps at the Xiom Power Hinoki, Table Tennis 11 have it for quite a reasonable price. 👍


Page 3 of 5 FirstFirst 12345 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Create a new Topic:
Title is required.