Nittaku premium ball

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There is simply no way that is the case my friend, end of story. One is seamed the other isn't, that alone is enough to undermine the durability of the DHS 40+ balls; furthermore, I doubt you will have used the **every so slightly** improved DHS 40+ balls that you can get on Ali Express atm, meaning you have used the crappy old generation seamed balls which are well know to be plagued with serious durability issues.

You can't have used the Nittaku Premium 40+ Balls extensively otherwise you would be aware of this.

-Henry
 
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That's why I only bought d40+

The powder problem is easy to resolve. Drop some water than dry it.

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Dima seems to just stick the ball in his mouth. [emoji2]


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There is simply no way that is the case my friend, end of story. One is seamed the other isn't, that alone is enough to undermine the durability of the DHS 40+ balls; furthermore, I doubt you will have used the **every so slightly** improved DHS 40+ balls that you can get on Ali Express atm, meaning you have used the crappy old generation seamed balls which are well know to be plagued with serious durability issues.

You can't have used the Nittaku Premium 40+ Balls extensively otherwise you would be aware of this.

-Henry

Not quite sure what story you think it is the end of, but not one based in reality. The facts of the matter are that both the Nittaku Premium and the D40+ are seamed ABS balls. The seam is smaller on the Nittaku because they use a different patented method to seal the two ball halves together. It is not easy to see but it is most certainly seamed and if you hold it up to the light you can see it easily. People might not want to listen to someone that claims that either of these balls is seamless.

As for the durability of the D40+ balls, which I have bought from two places now, and which I have used extensively, there is no question whatsoever as to their durability, and that aspect is superior to Nittaku Premium. (Bear in mind that Nittaku durability is just average, oddly enough that was also true with their best celluloid balls too). The seam on the D40+ is larger than Nittaku but having played with them for awhile now, I have not yet managed to break even one D40+ ball along the seam. Basically, they don't break, or only very rarely. They get stepped on , lost, or they eventually the surface gets worn, but that later process takes longer than for Nittaku Premium.

I have been playing with the Nittaku Premium 40+ ball since it was first available, in fact I am sitting here with a box stamped XGAE, which means they were manufactured in July 2015. I bought a really large order right around then and have been rationing them out since. I am very familiar with the Nittaku ball! It is a great ball to play with (some people disagree with that but I don't understand why) --- but durability is not it's strong point. D40+ is a seamed ball made of very similar ABS material and only 0.04 grams heavier, so it is quite similar to play with. Really nobody should have trouble switching back and forth between those two balls.

Here are threads from two other forums where people talk about the durability of the D40+. People disagree on a lot things, like whether they spin the same and other stuff, but not on durability.

http://ooakforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=83&t=31070

http://mytabletennis.net/forum/foru...&title=dhs-d40-to-be-released-in-april#977151
 
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You feel like Xushaofa is like long-pimp ball (lighter), is because it has higher bounce, it's not because its weight is "lighter". When one ball bounces higher than you expected, you subjectively judge it feels "light". Baal has all the datas regarding weight of all types of balls. When one's judgement sounds neutral, it is more believable. If sounds biased, I'd doubt that. For me, I'd never say Nittaku or D40+ are weird just because I'm used to playing with other balls.

Amen to that!
 
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I have been testing balls for as long as Baal has and I haven't found anything he says to be outside of 1% of what I believe. I have test just about every major variety if 3* ball. Because I coach and still play rated events, ball price and quality are big deals to me.

BTW, I strongly suspect the first XSF balls were ABS before the new logo one's switched to a less durable material.
 
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This topic is now heated. Obviously discussion over balls will not be gone in at least one year, I assume. I haven't done that thorough lab tests on balls, but I like collecting "feelings" on ball playing performance then analyze. When I say I like Xushaofa ball, not meaning this brand's ball, I like seamless balls like Xiom, Joola Flash, Yinhe as well as XSF. Two best qualities about seamless ball are awesome durability and very very regular bounce, I can always judge which point/height it may bounce to at play. Perception about ball at play is very good. For sure no other seamed balls would ever bounce that perfectly regular as seamless, as long as one is seamed and one is seamless. For a seamed ball, its shell thickness is destined to be uneven at the seam and at other sphere areas. So imperfect bounce would be a thing that seamed balls would never get rid of. Speaking of seamless ball "floating" in the air, my common sense tells me this is easy to find logic behind it: evenly-distributed weight all over the seamless ball makes it not curve/drop like a seamed ball, the weight of latter is unevenly distributed at the seam and at other spots on the ball. For me, good perception is what I'm looking for from a table tennis ball.
Baal's knowledge on balls is excellent. And his posts drew my attention when I first joined this forum. So, I wouldn't doubt his judgement.
Above is simply stating what I like and what I think.
 
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The new DHS 40+ Balls are an improvement for sure, I have 20 on the way from China however the fact remains that DHS balls will always have inferior durability and I will maintain that to the day I die. Unless these new balls blow my mind, which I am confident they will not then I will maintain my opinion that Nittaku are the market leaders in terms of durability at the very least. The premium line ball is fantastic to play with, truly!
 
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IMHO I don't think it's very smart to judge over things before having personal experience. It comes across a bit prejudice, don't ya think?
Also your opinion would be more relevant if it wasn' t just based on assumptions and if you were playing with them already for a while. But otherwise....
[Emoji15]
Anyhow, I like both balls, and their playing properties are nearly identical but the price and the durability of the D40+ makes it hard not to prefer the D40+ over the NP40+, 'cause even if NP40+ is the closest to the celluloid ball, the performance of the D40+ isn't far behind and coming from the NP40+ one can adapt to it within minutes.
But just give 'em personally a try and then let us know what you think.
Wouldn't be surprised if your opinion will change.
From knowing the old DHS balls I first really was sceptical too, but not anymore....
 
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Actually I would go so far as to say that Next Level has actually tried more plastic balls than I have because to date I have not seen or hit with the Double Fish ABS ball. On the other hand, I tend to obsess more, and do things like weigh them, measure their roundness and such. When plastic balls came out I kind of made it my "mission" to know as much as I could because I was so discouraged by some of the first seamed balls on the market, and also I managed to hit with an early seamless prototype (which was really bad). So this is one of the things in table tennis I know a bit about, plus I follow what other people write about them, including people who have taken trouble to search out the patents etc.

If I write something about Nittaku or D40+ balls, for example on their durability, it is not really guessing. It is because I have had enough experience with these things to actually know (in other words, I don't make comments about products I haven't tried and I know which balls have seams and which ones don't). And durability is like weight. It is something you can know objectively. By the way, I have had nothing good to say about any DHS ball ever marketed before these. Because the stuff they have sold before this is so bad, I was not expecting to be impressed by any ball they sell. But the D40+ is (at the moment) an outstanding product, and I hope it remains that way. So is the Nittaku Premium but about 50% more expensive than it should be.

To be honest, now that the ball situation is settling down a bit, and we have some good options (seamless, Nittaku, D40+ and its clones), I am going to obsess less because the subject is starting to get boring and old. It still annoys me when I see misinformation about 40+ balls out there, but whatever. I should just let it slide now.
 
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Hey Masl, welcome to the forum. Do you have the same username at tt-news.de?
If so we've been communicatin' there a while ago. My name there is Zwirbelheimer.
If not then ignore this post and welcome anyway

Yes I am.

at all, so nobody has recognized a small change in material for NP40+?

at Baal, I'm not expecting the same behaviour as celluloid balls, but the difference between DHS D40+ and NP40+ playing at our tables is significant.
 
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You must be right , you are also right in what you said about Baal's recommendation. I just said , "I" hate Xushaofa .. its a personal thing , just to clarify I am not recommending others to not play with them .. I personally like Nitakku 40+ and I am okay with DHS ABS 40+ the one with Ding Ning's picture. I did say somewhere that I chose to go back to Nitakku even though DHS is cheaper because it throws off my timing and NL commented that it should not and I should work on it ... I agree to that too :) ... but its something about XuSHaofa , especially the bounce and the sound , I don't like , for me it feels like playing with "ping pong balls" the really cheap ones made with hard plastic that you cannot destroy .. you can get those back in my country ...

I don't like a variety of balls (Butterfly G40+, Old DHS) and it is isn't entirely objective as I can play at the same level as I currently do with both of them *if* I practice extensively with them. Without practice, my close to the table game suffers as it is based on precision and my serve game suffers with G40+ (bounces too high with too little grip) and my rally game suffers with Old DHS (bounces too low). But if I play enough, am giving fair warning, and I practice in advance and adapt, good things happen as I adjust. XuShaofa should be no different, after a few minutes to a hour, you should be fully focused.
 
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Yes I am.

at all, so nobody has recognized a small change in material for NP40+?

at Baal, I'm not expecting the same behaviour as celluloid balls, but the difference between DHS D40+ and NP40+ playing at our tables is significant.

I guess the key is in what is meant by words like significant. I can tell which is which but I can switch between the Nittaku and D40 easily and with less time for adjustment than I need to switch to any other balls. This is on three different kinds of tables, Tibhar 28, Butterfly, and most recently on Gewo 25 at Suga's club near Frankfurt. For me I am very happy to play with either one. The Nittaku is slightly lighter. That definitely has an effect, but for me it doesnt matter much. As for recent changes in Nittaku, since I have several boxes of unused 2015 balls, I will compare vs newer ones.
 
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IMHO I don't think it's very smart to judge over things before having personal experience. It comes across a bit prejudice, don't ya think?....

....on Gewo 25 at Suga's club near Frankfurt.

I will refrain from hijacking this thread. But I am going to open a different thread with these two quote to ask for photos....video.....documentation....evidence of this TTDaily gathering. [emoji2]


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If there are no photos , it did not happen , period ! :D
I will refrain from hijacking this thread. But I am going to open a different thread with these two quote to ask for photos....video.....documentation....evidence of this TTDaily gathering. [emoji2]


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The Nittaku is slightly lighter. That definitely has an effect, but for me it doesnt matter much. As for recent changes in Nittaku, since I have several boxes of unused 2015 balls, I will compare vs newer ones.

Maybe that's the difference in our balls we refer to. Here is my documentation for all plastic balls I ordered since mid 2016. My DHS D40+ balls are slightly heavier, thats true. But der Andro 3S balls, which is quite likely the same ball, is lighter than NP40+. I will append my measurements, sorry this is in german but it was done for me and a greman speaking forum.View attachment TTBaelle.zip

The difference we can recognize in our club is bouncing from the table with spinny balls. But ok, I don't want to stress this topic any longer.
 
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Maybe that's the difference in our balls we refer to. Here is my documentation for all plastic balls I ordered since mid 2016. My DHS D40+ balls are slightly heavier, thats true. But der Andro 3S balls, which is quite likely the same ball, is lighter than NP40+. I will append my measurements, sorry this is in german but it was done for me and a greman speaking forum.View attachment 13561

The difference we can recognize in our club is bouncing from the table with spinny balls. But ok, I don't want to stress this topic any longer.

Interesting. In the case of balls we have both measured, a lot of my my measurements precisely agree with yours (for example Nittaku SHA, old DHS). Because of that, I don't think there is any systematic difference in the way we measure. So based on that, I think you are almost certainly correct that Nittaku has changed, and in particular it seems that Nittaku Premiums have gotten a little heavier since 2015 (when they were 2.67-2.69 grams). I would speculate that Nittaku might have had to do that to keep their balls in ITTF approval. However, my batch of D40+ weighed around 2.72-2.73 g, in the same range as your Andro balls. Code on box is XBAG, i.e. February 2017. This raises all sorts of questions in my mind. Are they perhaps using two factories?
 
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